rooster415

Hi

I own a 2004 manual base tl . I'm deciding between turbo and supercharger. Supercharger is the cheaper route as I have researched with all the supporting mods

What are the gains people have achieved with these mods because I can find it with search?

Comptexh supercharger
Rv6 long tube with pcds
P2r throttle body
Exhaust
Methanol injection
Under pulley
Crank pulley

My goal is to reach 400 whp with the supercharger is that possible ?

Andy07KBP

I think you are going to be closer to 340 whp with that set up. From what I have read you can't really get 400 without turbo charging and j and r s engine management

I think stock is 230 HP or so plus 65 (average) with the charger plus about 50 with everything else.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I'd say 400 whp is definitely out of your reach. The most I've seen was ~370 whp, but that was with a highly overdriven blower. It's worth noting that the person that had that setup ended up going through at least one set of pistons. Maybe two. If you're looking to have your car reliable, you're going to be in the ~320 whp range. Any more and you're going to have to spend a good amount of cash to upgrade to the bigger blower, injectors, J&R ECU, etc... At that point, you would have been better off to go the turbo route.

rooster415

been doing a lot alot of research. people usually finish aroudn 10-12k with their turbo set up and supporting mods. am i correct? is there a way to build my own ? im jus stuck on where the turbo goes if we can have turbo manifolds because our headers are casted on ?

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

400 WHP S/C has been done according to Rodney if I'm not mistaken.

Opel even has it at 350+ with low boost. Imagine adding J&R ECU and putting it at 7/8 PSI, should get about 400 whp.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/turbo-supercharger-my-06-tl-830834/

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I'm sorry, but that sounds a bit far fetched for the MP60 blower. On my 3.2, I could barely muster 3.5 psi with the high boost pulley. (This was after removing all cats and some exhaust mods.) The only way he was able to hit those kinds of numbers was with a HIGHLY optimistic dyno, or with a custom blower setup. If it was the later case, then it just proves my point. You're not going to hit big numbers with the CT kit. Period. And even at the 350 whp mark, you're going to have about $7k invested in it and even at that point, you're going to have a hard time maintaining reliability for that price.

And regarding Opel, he was at around 370 whp with a custom pulley and was running crazy intake temps because of it. He's also the one that went through a few sets of pistons. Just as him how many parts he's torn up.

phatrick

bmeyer: Saw your 347whp thread. Would you mind posting what your setup at that time was?

You were on stock internals at the time right?

Honestly, think you have the more well rounded builds around here, even on your turbo now. Cheers.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, phatrick. That setup was as follows:
MP60 blower
High boost pulley
Stock injectors
Stock internals
Stock fuel pump
PCD's
ATLP V1 J-pipe
Resonated test pipe
AEM F/IC
AEM water/meth kit
Innovative LM-2

... I think that's it

It wasn't really what I would call a stable setup though. It was more for bragging rights. With the F/IC, I was never able to maintain the proper AFR over long periods of time so we ended up having to detune it for the street. My intake temps were always higher than I would have liked as well. I think if I had tried to run it like that for even a month, I would have blown the motor.

AtlM5

Id say its very possible with full boltons, M80, pnp IM and heads, meth, and tune. If you got some cams as well you could easily push it to 460++++

AtlM5

wasnt opel at 375whp with his setup?

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

^ change 2 things on that list and you would have accomplished the same hp/tq, but without the raised intake temps.

1. swap high boost pulley for stock
2. swap stock TL 270cc injectors, for 310cc rxs-s injectors.

just curious, how come you didnt change out the injectors? after my first tune with the FIC, my stock injectors were maxed and car went lean from 6200rpm to redline.... and that was with the stock pulley :/

i pretty much have the same setup as you, minus those 2 things, with the exact amount of hp

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Opel is running lower compression as well.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Because even with the HBP, I was only pushing 3.5 psi which meant that I didn't have enough air to necessitate the additional fuel. Also, I actually had more of an issue leaning out the AFR on the dyno than I did adding fuel in. After a period of time though, it was a different story. Like I mentioned, the F/IC wasn't capable of keeping the stock ECU happy to the point where it wouldn't pull 10%+ fuel from the map. Negating any changes.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Doesn't Paul have a 400+ hp stroked J37 with a Eaton M90 blower?

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Paul is an exception to every rule.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

Weird... why only have 3.5 psi with Hbp?? Ive had great success tuning with the fic running on the same tune since forever.. Something was wrong for sure. Almost sounds like you were running it with the underdrive pulley :/ or had a severe leak somewhere.. you were running the stock motor correct??? I know your running Turbo now (Congrats on the build btw) but do u have any a/f, vacuum, HP and TQ graphs u can post ? Curious to what part of the powerband you were having this problem.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

agreed. Paul is the man.

phatrick

Do you suspect that with the standalone, this could be a different story?

Never tried an FIC so don't have that experience.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

Certainly. With the standalone, the stock ECU is almost completely taken out of the mix as far as the engine is concerned. You wouldn't be fighting the stock ECU at every turn.

There was definitely more power to be made if the J&R ECU was out around that time.

When I tuned with the F/IC, the whole O2 skew functionality hadn't been cracked yet. That's what was causing the issues with my AFRs. Basically, the stock ECU would see the additional fuel being added by the F/IC and it would adjust the long/short term fuel trims to the point where it was almost as if there was no additional fuel making it in the engine. With the tune in my dyno thread, I was basically only able to run that setup at WOT.

04, I don't have any other graphs at the moment. I don't remember if that one is still up in my dyno thread or not. Basically what I would see is a huge drop in boost right around the time that VTEC would kick in. It's possible that my belt was slipping. When I pulled the blower off, I noticed that the tops of the inner grooves on the pulley were pretty shiny. Though I did dyno the car before deleting the third cat and saw around 5 p.s.i. which leads me to believe that it was more of an issue that i had nothing restricting the exhaust rather than belt slippage. What are you running for an exhaust setup on your car? Have you ever watched your long/short term fuel trims during normal driving?