Kevin17112

My first question is do they even make a short ram for TL? If they do, which one is better? I know short ram is easier to install and won't have to worry about sucking up water or anything like that. But power wise, does short ram give out less hp than CAI? and also which one sounds better?

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

a short ram intake will hurt power.

/thread.

Nick216

1. Yes they do
2. They are all the same
3, cai is fine with water just dont drive in 3 ft of water...
4.yes cai gives more power
5. Not sure about a short ram but my aem v2 roars like a beast at vtec

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

well, people are worried because it does happen.
be smart when you drive.
change your driving habits.

Nick216

Hehe got the post in before my edit, true though. These cars arent trucks dont drive through a small lake.

Kevin17112

I forgot the name of the brand, but they make CAI that you can also change it to SRI. Is it injen?

Nick216

If you had a cai i dont see why you would want to make it a ram. Its like paying for a cai wich is more expensive ,then hurting your power.

Kevin17112

CAI for summer, and SRI for winter. I know lot of people who does that.

Nick216

Summer or not the engine bay still has super hot temps. I wouldn't want my intake getting anywhere near that even in the winter.

StealthTL-S

The TL has a Semi- Cold Air intake Stock. I might not even change my type S. CAI is definately better, but my Civic Si got hydrolocked (and luckily repaired) through a flooded street with my CAI...

MEKO

iTrader: (1)

Never had a water issue with my CAI, but did with SRI haha

Kevin17112

Thanks everyone for your input, I think I will just go with either the AEM or Injen CAI.

pohljm

Save your money and remove the resonators from your stock CAI and use the money for something that will actually make a difference.

Kevin17112

Thanks but I'd rather have an aftermarket CAI

justnspace

iTrader: (1)

why?
did you upgrade to the 3.7 manifold and throttle body?

what if the stock throttle body is the limiting factor?
what if the stock cold air intake system brings in enough air already?

most people that upgrade to the 3.7 manifold and throttle body go with a 4 inch custom intake to make the most power.

pohljm

its shiny!

NBP_BALLER

Honestly your not going to get any more power out of your car, go dyno it and put on the intake and dyno again. You will get a few hp if that and your low end torque will suffer slightly. Ive done it on three cars, all were the same... Slight changes to the power flow, a bit more even lines on the chart but no real noticeable power gain. Expensive shiny piece of pipe... Now if you have other supporting mods... then it can help out. Larger throttle body, port/polished intake, cam, tune, exhaust, cat delete, pre cat delete, j-pipe. It may go "BWAAAAAAAAAAH" but the sound isnt power. As for water... The reason you CAN get water in your engine with a CAI vs stock is that the stock intake opening is higher and the box actually has a section that will catch the water if a small amount gets in. Will you get water in it...? Have you ever seen water that you cant see how deep it is...? Well dont drive through that but otherwise its safe. $300 is alot, go buy a jpipe or pre-cat deletes! Real power there!

Scottwax

Generally a CAI will boost power in the midrange and a SRI on top end due to differences in intake tube length. When I put an AEM CAI on my old '90 Accord, the bump in power at 4000 that showed on their dyno charts was very noticeable in my car and helped retain power on the upshifts since rpms would drop right into the improved power band. But that huge bump (something like 12 hp) seems more common to the F22/H22 than the V6 cars. And as far as top end power, it didn't feel like there was any improvement.

If an intake is your first mods, any gains will probably be in the 5-7 hp range. Need a pretty sensitive butt dyno to feel it. But if you do other mods as well, it should help make the most of whatever else you do.

I hate cars

There is no such thing as intake tuning before the throttlebody. Any tuning or "ram air effect" happens in the plenum and runners. It's not good for air to speed up and slow down and speed up again. That's why the intake tract is usually invisible to the engine from the factory. It significantly outflows the throttlebody and engine's demands at full throttle so it can feed the plenum with no restriction. The plenum slows down and equalizes airflow and the tuning begins from that point. The only exception to this is a HIGHLY optimized race setup that uses the entire intake tract to help tune but those setups usually have very small plenums, not the huge plenum setup the TL has.

Any gains in just one area on the tach should be investigated closer, there will be a reason for it. Maybe the ECU was able to run more timing, maybe it leaned out slightly in one area, there are a ton of possibiliies but it's not from any sort of "tuning".

Last, it is 100% impossible for a CAI or any induction mod that increases airflow before the throttlebody to cause a loss of low end torque. That's a myth that needs to die. The CAI for the TL may add a couple hp due to cooler air but it does not add power by freeing up any restrictions, the stock system already outflows the engine without restriction. If freeing up the intake tract caused a loss in low end torque, it would make sense the the car would make LESS power at full throttle where restriction is at it's lowest and MORE power at idle where restriction is at it's highest. If your're getting power gains from a CAI due to a cooler intake charge temp, most of the time it's the low end torque that benefits the most.


If people were really interested in CAI gains in the real world they would take their car to the track both with and without the CAI on the same night and watch mph. That takes out all of the variables of the dyno such as the car not moving as it does in real life lol, the hood up which negates any gains from cooler air since you just leveled the playing field or cheated in the SRI or stock induction's favor. Weird things go on in the real world that you can't account for on the dyno. I had a CAI on my turbo car until I started monitoring intake charge temps before the turbo, after the turbo, and after the intercooler. I realized when I went full throttle without the CAI hooked up, my pre-turbo intake temps went down from about 180 degrees to ambient. The 900CFM or so of air was enough to instantly lower engine bay temps to ambient. There's just no way to know this with the car on a dyno.

The OP is obviously more concerned with getting a shiny new toy rather than performance, he'll even lose power in order to have something new under the hood so there's no sense in going on about it.

Scottwax

I know cold air systems like the dual snorkel with hoses to the bumpers made power in the 442s and cowl induction made more power with the Chevelles (picked up nearly 2 mph trap speed going from the flat hood to the cowl induction hood on my Chevelle), colder air means more power and most cold air systems (other than the Injen for the VQ35 Maximas that draw air from near the radiator) pull in cooler air than most factory systems-which, less face it, are designed more to quiet intake noise than for maximum power. And most aftermarket intakes offer a more direct and smoother path for the air to flow into the engine along with a larger surface area filter that can flow more air. Even if you believe that the design and larger filter area of an SRI or CAI don't help a mostly stock engine because they don't need the extra airflow, the colder air is going to help with a CAI and underhood air will probably hurt an SRI design.

Every 10 degree drop in intake temperature translates to an approximately 1% increase in power with no other changes. Only way to tell for sure when the car is moving if the cold air intake is actually pulling in cooler air than the stock location would be to measure the temps in each location-I believe one of the car magazines did just that and the difference was about 20-25 degrees once the car was moving. But I'm willing to bet that based on my stock intake system, the air in the fender is cooler than the air directly behind the radiator (I have an Accord, doesn't have the superior TL cool air intake system). But so far, I've only removed the resonator so the airbox is pulling air from inside the fender. On the fence about an intake myself. All the dynos I've seen show gains only at the top end of the rpm range and my car spends very little time there.

If people want something shiny under the hood, who really cares if it makes them happy. Hell, I did stupid stuff like a chrome water neck and gold anodized Moroso valve covers on my Chevelle and there is no chance either of those will add a single bit of power. Besides most people don't just do one mod and never do anything else. And not everyone can afford to do an intake, j-pipe, PCDs, exhaust, cams, porting, etc all at once. And as long as each mod supports the other, its no big deal in the end if they are done one at a time.

I hate cars

The problem with this argument is the assumption that the stock system offers a restriction. I measured vacuum at full throttle with the stock intake tract including a factory filter with about 20,000 miles on it and it's just about non existant. No modern car is going to leave hp on the table due to an undersized restrictive filter and intake pipe. They're not going to invest millions on exotic head designs along with the rest of the technoloy and leave power on the table in the intake tract.

Look at the TL's intake tract including the resonator and tell me where a restriction exists. Induction noise can be quieted with no restriction to the engine. The filter capacity has to be designed to not only outflow the engine's needs when new but to not become a restriction after 30,000 miles.

There was as time when a ton of power was left on the table. Back when you could gain 70hp from exhaust and 40hp from simple intake mods. That's usually not the case anymore. I remember when flipping the top of the air filter would actually increase power on some cars.

I agree that colder air makes more power, no one is going to dispute this. I've spent the last 20 years trying to find every trick to get a cooler charge. Where I have a problem is the assumption that the CAI is going to deliver cooler air than the stock system under real world conditions. Underhood temps vary depending on speed and even throttle position. I've measured in my other car and the results are surprising to say the least. As I said, that car doesn't need a CAI because the engine pulls enough air at full throttle to completely purge the hot air in the engine compartment in a couple seconds. Who knows what's going on in the TL's engine bay. That's why I suggested taking it to the track. More than likely the CAI is going to help the most in stop and go low speed traffic and the least on the freeway.

I've always said that the inlet to the CAI should be outside of the engine bay. It doesn't matter where as long as the source of the air is outside. Ideally the filter should be kept inside the engine bay.

The typical dyno with the hood up shows nothing because the car has no airflow around it and obviously the hood being up makes any testing between a SRI and CAI invalid.
The problem is he's worried about hydrolocking the engine. He asked about power gains. After he was told the SRI will hurt power, CAI may or may not make more power over stock and he thinks he will have to worry about hydrolock, he still wants it just because. My point and others was that he could save the money on the CAI and use it on mods that will actually do something. I want to clarify that I'm not saying the CAI doesn't help. It probably does help under some conditions but it's from cooler air, not anything to do with restriction or tuning of the pre throttlebody intake tract.

MarcoNorthPolo

Valid points.

Scottwax

Remember though, I have an Accord...while I doubt the factory set up is intentionally restrictive, its constructed with low noise levels much more so than the TL. Probably why K&N shows more gains with the Accord vs the TL with their CAI.

When it comes down to it, a factory system is the best compromise between power and low noise levels on most cars that aren't exotics. And I agree usually the gains from an aftermarket system aren't huge. Unless you have a Civic with an accompanying fart tip.


I did flip the lid on the air cleaner when I first got my Chevelle and it was still rocking the OEM Rochester 2 barrel carb on the 350.

I hear ya on that. Picked up 4 mph in my trap going from a Carter 625 to a Holley 650 double pumper with my Chevelle; and real dual exhaust on my '77 Cutlass dropped the 0-60 time from 9.2 seconds to 7.8. Then paid $550 for a Delta 88, yanked it out, put it in place of the 350 in the Cutlass and got the 0-60 down to about 6 seconds flat. Those days are long gone...


That's why one of the magazines (pretty sure it was Sport Compact Car about 5-6 years ago) measured temperatures with the cars in motion. But most don't do that. And it skews the numbers.


I agree with you there. Probably be better off just removing the resonator and running a tube from the airbox into the fender, but leaving it up high enough so it can't suck in water than spending the money on an SRI.

I had an AEM CAI on my '90 Accord for the last 5 years I had it, no issues at all driving in the rain, including 300+ miles of constant rain on a road trip. Just got to be smart and avoid puddles that are at least a foot deep.