Quick Nitrous questions
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whoismiked (08-08-2013)
08-08-2013 | 10:55 AM
#3
I only know of one other TL owner that is running nitrous shots and I know he did a bunch of custom work to make it happen. Maybe you'll get lucky and he will see this thread. He had to go to the extent of fabricating a custom direct port nitrous distribution block and is the community MS3 piggyback guru if that tells you anything about what you're going to need before you start even thinking about nitrous.
08-08-2013 | 11:06 AM
#5
Lol, it's a catch 22. We want extra power, but don't want to sacrifice reliability. For those who don't drive these as daily drivers, they are willing to take more risk and sacrifice reliability to obtain greater power. Now that I've got a 6MT, I'm trying to plan out what I want to do. I want reliability and at least 300+ WHP.
08-08-2013 | 10:29 PM
#7
Rawr.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 715
From: Bellevue, WA
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08-15-2013 | 02:26 PM
#8
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,812
From: Bakersfield
A small shot when set up right will be reliable. Nitrous isn't my favorite way to get power but it makes sense on these cars that require lots of money just for a few hp.
Make sure you have the proper safety measures, a window switch and throttle switch at the minimum.
Run a wet shot otherwise it's going to lean out and even a small shot will hurt the engine. A wet shot requires no tuning since you're supplying the additional needed fuel. It would be good if you could pull some timing when nitrous is activated though.
Run higher octane when possible. Over a 50 shot will require more octane than you can get at the pump to run safely. 100 unleaded will do the trick. Methanol injection will also work to suppress detonation.
If you want reliability, run good gas and don't go above a 50 shot. Remember, nitrous will drastically increase torque, especially if it's triggered at too low of an rpm. This is why the window switch is important.
Make sure you have the proper safety measures, a window switch and throttle switch at the minimum.
Run a wet shot otherwise it's going to lean out and even a small shot will hurt the engine. A wet shot requires no tuning since you're supplying the additional needed fuel. It would be good if you could pull some timing when nitrous is activated though.
Run higher octane when possible. Over a 50 shot will require more octane than you can get at the pump to run safely. 100 unleaded will do the trick. Methanol injection will also work to suppress detonation.
If you want reliability, run good gas and don't go above a 50 shot. Remember, nitrous will drastically increase torque, especially if it's triggered at too low of an rpm. This is why the window switch is important.
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08-15-2013 | 02:30 PM
#9
I was just reading about this yesterday.
Setup Types
There are 3 major types of nitrous setups.
1. Dry
2. Wet
3. Direct port
As with most choices, there are pluses and minuses to all of them.
Dry:
A dry shot relies on the car's MAF, PCM, and fuel system to add the proper amount of fuel to balance the nitrous out. That is, the nitrous is sprayed in front of the MAF, which recognizes a sudden spike in O2 and signals the PCM, which decides the proper amount of fuel needed to balance the mixture. It is the cheapest of the setups to purchase. It also leaves no chance of fuel "puddling" in the intake. The weak point in this system is the car's fuel system. The dry shot is limited to the car's ability to increase fuel. Often a shot will find the weak spot in the fuel system, be it the injectors, the fuel pump, etc. Spraying N2O without the fuel to support it equals the kiss of death for your car.
Wet:
A wet shot does not rely on the car's MAF, PCM, or injectors to provide the proper amount of fuel to balance the mixture. It has a separate fuel line with its own jetting that is set up to spray the exact amount of fuel needed to go with the size nitrous shot you are using. In some cases, this may require you to step up your fuel pump, but you need not worry about your injectors. Some drawbacks are that with a separate fuel line and the fact that the spray is happening AFTER the MAF, any trouble with the system will go unnoticed by your PCM until it's too late. If your nitrous stops spraying but the fuel does not, then it will puddle and possibly introduce you to your hood-- the hard way... If the fuel side cuts out but the nitrous side does not, then you will go drastically lean and blow your motor. Threat of these things can be minimized. Buy GOOD parts, not the cheapest you can get away with.
Direct Port:
A direct port setup mixes the N2O and fuel, and directly injects the mixture into each individual cylinder. It is by far and away the safest and best way to use N2O. It does have one major drawback... PRICE. The direct port system by itself, can cost north of $1500. That does not include any of the supporting parts, that really are must-haves with ANY nitrous setup.
There are 3 major types of nitrous setups.
1. Dry
2. Wet
3. Direct port
As with most choices, there are pluses and minuses to all of them.
Dry:
A dry shot relies on the car's MAF, PCM, and fuel system to add the proper amount of fuel to balance the nitrous out. That is, the nitrous is sprayed in front of the MAF, which recognizes a sudden spike in O2 and signals the PCM, which decides the proper amount of fuel needed to balance the mixture. It is the cheapest of the setups to purchase. It also leaves no chance of fuel "puddling" in the intake. The weak point in this system is the car's fuel system. The dry shot is limited to the car's ability to increase fuel. Often a shot will find the weak spot in the fuel system, be it the injectors, the fuel pump, etc. Spraying N2O without the fuel to support it equals the kiss of death for your car.
Wet:
A wet shot does not rely on the car's MAF, PCM, or injectors to provide the proper amount of fuel to balance the mixture. It has a separate fuel line with its own jetting that is set up to spray the exact amount of fuel needed to go with the size nitrous shot you are using. In some cases, this may require you to step up your fuel pump, but you need not worry about your injectors. Some drawbacks are that with a separate fuel line and the fact that the spray is happening AFTER the MAF, any trouble with the system will go unnoticed by your PCM until it's too late. If your nitrous stops spraying but the fuel does not, then it will puddle and possibly introduce you to your hood-- the hard way... If the fuel side cuts out but the nitrous side does not, then you will go drastically lean and blow your motor. Threat of these things can be minimized. Buy GOOD parts, not the cheapest you can get away with.
Direct Port:
A direct port setup mixes the N2O and fuel, and directly injects the mixture into each individual cylinder. It is by far and away the safest and best way to use N2O. It does have one major drawback... PRICE. The direct port system by itself, can cost north of $1500. That does not include any of the supporting parts, that really are must-haves with ANY nitrous setup.
08-15-2013 | 03:28 PM
#11
Rawr.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 1,334
Likes: 715
From: Bellevue, WA
IMO, 50/50 blend of water/meth is much safer than running nitrous... at least for my application. That intake piping gets cold as sh*t once that kit starts spraying 
I'm still curious as to what Justin's friend is running?
I'm still curious as to what Justin's friend is running?
08-15-2013 | 03:30 PM
#12
i know its the m62. and thats all i know. I'll have to PM him or ask him in person.
but we had a cars and coffee meet on the third of this month, and he mentioned he's running both the s/charger and nitrous.
i think he owns a shop or something.
him and dirtyjohn both are spraying.
but we had a cars and coffee meet on the third of this month, and he mentioned he's running both the s/charger and nitrous.
i think he owns a shop or something.
him and dirtyjohn both are spraying.
08-15-2013 | 03:31 PM
#13
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,812
From: Bakersfield
The problem with that explanation is direct port nitrous does not inject straight into the cylinders. It injects into the intake manifold, similar to what the fuel injectors do. Direct port is nice for those running a large shot, say 250hp and over.
Obviously a dry shot is not doable on a TL even though I've actually seen people attempt it on here even though the TL has no MAF sensor.
A wet shot is the most common. As long as the nozzles are intelligently placed and you're not trying to shove 250hp worth of fuel through the intake manifold you're fine. Our dry flow manifolds are designed with best airflow in mind where older cars with carburetors have wet flow intake manifolds designed for fuel and air and to try and stop or reduce fuel fallout as it makes it's way to the heads. A large wet shot can possibly puddle up in the intake manifold, especially the larger you go. Again, you're not likely to run into this problem at the relatively small shots you're likely to run in a stock bottom TL.
Exhaust mods are very important to get the additional exhaust volume out without restriction.
Obviously a dry shot is not doable on a TL even though I've actually seen people attempt it on here even though the TL has no MAF sensor.
A wet shot is the most common. As long as the nozzles are intelligently placed and you're not trying to shove 250hp worth of fuel through the intake manifold you're fine. Our dry flow manifolds are designed with best airflow in mind where older cars with carburetors have wet flow intake manifolds designed for fuel and air and to try and stop or reduce fuel fallout as it makes it's way to the heads. A large wet shot can possibly puddle up in the intake manifold, especially the larger you go. Again, you're not likely to run into this problem at the relatively small shots you're likely to run in a stock bottom TL.
Exhaust mods are very important to get the additional exhaust volume out without restriction.
08-15-2013 | 03:40 PM
#14
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,812
From: Bakersfield
Nitrous should be compared to a supercharger for an apples to apples comparison since both supply additional oxygen for combustion. Nitrous does an excellent job of cooling the intake tract though. I've seen people run nitrous to help with intake charge cooling.
A straight shot of meth, no water, makes the most power and is the safest for the engine. It cools the intake charge better too. I've got more than 10 years of data running various mixtures, even hydrogen peroxide. I would only mix water if the kit doesn't allow straight methanol or to save money since water is free.
08-15-2013 | 03:45 PM
#15
The problem with that explanation is direct port nitrous does not inject straight into the cylinders. It injects into the intake manifold, similar to what the fuel injectors do. Direct port is nice for those running a large shot, say 250hp and over.
Obviously a dry shot is not doable on a TL even though I've actually seen people attempt it on here even though the TL has no MAF sensor.
A wet shot is the most common. As long as the nozzles are intelligently placed and you're not trying to shove 250hp worth of fuel through the intake manifold you're fine. Our dry flow manifolds are designed with best airflow in mind where older cars with carburetors have wet flow intake manifolds designed for fuel and air and to try and stop or reduce fuel fallout as it makes it's way to the heads. A large wet shot can possibly puddle up in the intake manifold, especially the larger you go. Again, you're not likely to run into this problem at the relatively small shots you're likely to run in a stock bottom TL.
Exhaust mods are very important to get the additional exhaust volume out without restriction.
Obviously a dry shot is not doable on a TL even though I've actually seen people attempt it on here even though the TL has no MAF sensor.
A wet shot is the most common. As long as the nozzles are intelligently placed and you're not trying to shove 250hp worth of fuel through the intake manifold you're fine. Our dry flow manifolds are designed with best airflow in mind where older cars with carburetors have wet flow intake manifolds designed for fuel and air and to try and stop or reduce fuel fallout as it makes it's way to the heads. A large wet shot can possibly puddle up in the intake manifold, especially the larger you go. Again, you're not likely to run into this problem at the relatively small shots you're likely to run in a stock bottom TL.
Exhaust mods are very important to get the additional exhaust volume out without restriction.
08-15-2013 | 03:49 PM
#16
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 20,172
Likes: 1,812
From: Bakersfield
You can use a direct port setup for a 50 shot if you want but it's overkill. You can also make 468hp on the stock bottom end for a while on a really good (safe) tune but you're driving a ticking timebomb. I know guys with turbo cars like mine going 10.20s on the factory shortblock, never been out of the car but the owners know they will eventually let go and have backup engines ready to go.
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JJH (08-15-2013)
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