Question/thought about cats
12-27-2017, 12:39 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Question/thought about cats
I am wondering if it would be worth installing hfpc's amd doubling up the third oem cat in order to not increase emissions and potentially reduce them while increasing power.
Any thoughts from socially-conscious individuals?
Any thoughts from socially-conscious individuals?
12-27-2017, 06:54 AM
#2
if you want to be eco-conscious, leave the catalytic converters alone. they are the reason why the car is rated ULEV-II, while a civic of the same year is rated LEV.
also, get a prius, you hippie!!!!
news articles are proclaiming tons of Nissan LEAF G2 Sales!
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Acura TL Builder (12-27-2017)
12-27-2017, 01:56 PM
#4
Mr. Detail
Just get a long tube J-pipe. Eliminates the non-monitored 3rd cat which is what makes the car ULEV, you'll still have the precats and unless your state does visual inspections you'll be fine and still put out pretty damn clean exhaust.
12-28-2017, 08:31 PM
#5
Do you remember balancing quadratic equations in school? You can't take away from one side of the equal sign and not do the same to the other end, it doesn't work like that.
You're going to reduce catalytic capability on one side, and just move it a bit further down the exhaust system. Unless you just like putting money into the economy you're doing absolutely nothing for the environment or the car's power output.
Like the crab guy said, it's one or the other. If you like performance numbers without a huge carbon footprint I would invest in a Tesla.
You're going to reduce catalytic capability on one side, and just move it a bit further down the exhaust system. Unless you just like putting money into the economy you're doing absolutely nothing for the environment or the car's power output.
Like the crab guy said, it's one or the other. If you like performance numbers without a huge carbon footprint I would invest in a Tesla.
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justnspace (12-29-2017)
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12-29-2017, 01:14 AM
#8
- Extra muffler in the rear will delete the extra noise made by HFPC, that would have been otherwise deleted by stock Pre-cats, yes.
- Extra muffler will also delete most of the power gains from HFPC, check.
- No real power gains or noise added with this route, also yes.
12-29-2017, 01:15 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I do recall quadratic equations but I do not think they apply in this case.
Anyway... What is the cell count in the third cat? With that info I can probably figure this out myself.
To clarify, my idea would is to parallel two third cats to help make up for the increased emissions of the high flow pre cats.
I do not have emissions testing... Nobody will ever look at them except me and maybe the guys putting my new tires on.
Anyway... What is the cell count in the third cat? With that info I can probably figure this out myself.
To clarify, my idea would is to parallel two third cats to help make up for the increased emissions of the high flow pre cats.
I do not have emissions testing... Nobody will ever look at them except me and maybe the guys putting my new tires on.
12-29-2017, 02:02 AM
#12
You are considering spending the $ on a pair of HFPC, only to spend more money buying another muffler and then more again to have it welded on. Plus the time/money you are spending to install the HFPC. Are you Ceramic coating them?
For what? Emissions/noise balancing? More power? We don't quite understand the question, because it seems like an oxymoron.
12-29-2017, 03:26 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Lighten up bro.
You are considering spending the $ on a pair of HFPC, only to spend more money buying another muffler and then more again to have it welded on. Plus the time/money you are spending to install the HFPC. Are you Ceramic coating them?
For what? Emissions/noise balancing? More power? We don't quite understand the question, because it seems like an oxymoron.
You are considering spending the $ on a pair of HFPC, only to spend more money buying another muffler and then more again to have it welded on. Plus the time/money you are spending to install the HFPC. Are you Ceramic coating them?
For what? Emissions/noise balancing? More power? We don't quite understand the question, because it seems like an oxymoron.
I would be doing the work myself, including the welding. I am sure I could pick up another OEM 🐱 at the junk yard for a minimal amount. I need a hobby amd i like working on my car.
Does anyone know the cell count of OEM third 🐱?
I want more performance without more emission. How confusing can that be?
12-29-2017, 10:31 AM
#14
By design catalytic converters inhibit performance... they're basically big metal screen filters. A simple analogy of how a catalytic converter affects your exhaust flow would be placing a coffee filter over the end of a straw and trying to breath out quickly; the catalytic converter being the filter, the straw your exhaust, and your lungs as the motor. It's not simple; the filter over the end stops you from exhaling freely. Now if you were to remove the filter from the end of the straw you would be able to breath out the same amount of air much more easily and much faster than when the filter was on the end. This same concept applies to your car. You can place the filter anywhere inside the straw but the air coming out the end of the straw will still be moving just as fast with the same volume regardless of placement. Now if you were to increase your straw size AND your filter size you could achieve the same effect as removing the filter altogether.
12-29-2017, 10:36 AM
#15
Senior Moderator
12-29-2017, 10:37 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
By design catalytic converters inhibit performance... they're basically big metal screen filters. A simple analogy of how a catalytic converter affects your exhaust flow would be placing a coffee filter over the end of a straw and trying to breath out quickly; the catalytic converter being the filter, the straw your exhaust, and your lungs as the motor. It's not simple; the filter over the end stops you from exhaling freely. Now if you were to remove the filter from the end of the straw you would be able to breath out the same amount of air much more easily and much faster than when the filter was on the end. This same concept applies to your car. You can place the filter anywhere inside the straw but the air coming out the end of the straw will still be moving just as fast with the same volume regardless of placement. Now if you were to increase your straw size AND your filter size you could achieve the same effect as removing the filter altogether.
12-29-2017, 10:39 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
12-29-2017, 10:40 AM
#18
Senior Moderator
You're on your own then
12-29-2017, 11:07 AM
#20
Moderator
iTrader: (1)
I believe the stock cell count is 900 for a regular TL and 600 for the Type S. Those are the pre cats but I'd assume the 3rd cat is somewhere in that area as well.
Don't think it'll make much sense to do what your trying to do. Performance and emissions don't go well together. If you free up the precats but add another 3rd (4th) cat you'll be going backwards, performance wise anyways...
12-29-2017, 11:12 AM
#21
I do recall quadratic equations but I do not think they apply in this case.
Anyway... What is the cell count in the third cat? With that info I can probably figure this out myself.
To clarify, my idea would is to parallel two third cats to help make up for the increased emissions of the high flow pre cats.
I do not have emissions testing... Nobody will ever look at them except me and maybe the guys putting my new tires on.
Anyway... What is the cell count in the third cat? With that info I can probably figure this out myself.
To clarify, my idea would is to parallel two third cats to help make up for the increased emissions of the high flow pre cats.
I do not have emissions testing... Nobody will ever look at them except me and maybe the guys putting my new tires on.
you're moving the upstream cats downstream!?
it will be the same thing.
12-29-2017, 11:14 AM
#22
hfc= 200-300 cells.
third cat = has 300 or more cell count.
if you add another third cat, you're cancelling out any gains you made from the HFC's.......
the quadratic formula example DOES apply...What you do to one side, will affect the other.
and dont call us assholes, JUST because you didnt like the unanimous decision
third cat = has 300 or more cell count.
if you add another third cat, you're cancelling out any gains you made from the HFC's.......
the quadratic formula example DOES apply...What you do to one side, will affect the other.
and dont call us assholes, JUST because you didnt like the unanimous decision
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Joecop67 (12-29-2017)
12-29-2017, 12:24 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I believe the stock cell count is 900 for a regular TL and 600 for the Type S. Those are the pre cats but I'd assume the 3rd cat is somewhere in that area as well.
Don't think it'll make much sense to do what your trying to do. Performance and emissions don't go well together. If you free up the precats but add another 3rd (4th) cat you'll be going backwards, performance wise anyways...
hfc= 200-300 cells.
third cat = has 300 or more cell count.
if you add another third cat, you're cancelling out any gains you made from the HFC's.......
the quadratic formula example DOES apply...What you do to one side, will affect the other.
and dont call us assholes, JUST because you didnt like the unanimous decision
third cat = has 300 or more cell count.
if you add another third cat, you're cancelling out any gains you made from the HFC's.......
the quadratic formula example DOES apply...What you do to one side, will affect the other.
and dont call us assholes, JUST because you didnt like the unanimous decision
From my readings... The greatest bottleneck is created by the cats... The pre cats. Is that correct?
Just trying to find a way to reduce that substantially.... I have never really looked at the pre cats.... But from pics I have seen they are kinda small compared to the third cat. Is that correct?
My idea is to, yes, move the conversion downatream where there is more room to accomplish emission reduction while at the same time increasing performance.... Perhaps a third 3rd cat would be more effective (all running parallel of course)?
12-29-2017, 02:34 PM
#24
You left yourself wide open by finishing with wanting to stay eco compliant.
The precats perform a function that the main cats don't. So if you change them, they COULD be less efficient and pollute more during the warmup cycle.
You may eliminate more pollutants by adding a 2nd main cat in parallel but it does not make up for the precat change if indeed they are now doing less to when they are supposed to.
If you want less restriction, then you have to break the law. And honestly, the gains of just doing that alone are not great.
The precats perform a function that the main cats don't. So if you change them, they COULD be less efficient and pollute more during the warmup cycle.
You may eliminate more pollutants by adding a 2nd main cat in parallel but it does not make up for the precat change if indeed they are now doing less to when they are supposed to.
If you want less restriction, then you have to break the law. And honestly, the gains of just doing that alone are not great.
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12-29-2017, 05:41 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
You left yourself wide open by finishing with wanting to stay eco compliant.
The precats perform a function that the main cats don't. So if you change them, they COULD be less efficient and pollute more during the warmup cycle.
You may eliminate more pollutants by adding a 2nd main cat in parallel but it does not make up for the precat change if indeed they are now doing less to when they are supposed to.
If you want less restriction, then you have to break the law. And honestly, the gains of just doing that alone are not great.
The precats perform a function that the main cats don't. So if you change them, they COULD be less efficient and pollute more during the warmup cycle.
You may eliminate more pollutants by adding a 2nd main cat in parallel but it does not make up for the precat change if indeed they are now doing less to when they are supposed to.
If you want less restriction, then you have to break the law. And honestly, the gains of just doing that alone are not great.
I have never heard of any laws in my area about cats... Down in Southern Ontario they do have required emissions testing. For me it is not so much about the law but my efforts to not pollute the environment.
12-30-2017, 04:23 AM
#28
Thanks. That makes the most sense to me so far as to why this idea will not work the way I had hoped. I suppose the only real way to do it effectively would be to add two more precats (a sets of two on each side) and increasing the jpipe diameter.
I have never heard of any laws in my area about cats... Down in Southern Ontario they do have required emissions testing. For me it is not so much about the law but my efforts to not pollute the environment.
I have never heard of any laws in my area about cats... Down in Southern Ontario they do have required emissions testing. For me it is not so much about the law but my efforts to not pollute the environment.
DO NOT REMOVE THEM if you want to keep the earth clean
power and cleanliness do NOT go hand in hand. Do not pass Go, Do Not collect $200.
12-31-2017, 03:38 AM
#29
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
04-09-2018, 09:52 AM
#33
Senior Moderator
did you buy them at once? One of them looks a lot darker than the other and may be indicative of early failure (soot)
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