Pulley install questions
02-21-2009, 09:39 PM
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Pulley install questions
Hey everyone,
I'm doing a pulley install with Timeless in the morning, and I think I've got it pretty much down as to what we have to do, but I did have a few questions.
1. The socket extension that we put on the breaker bar, how long does that need to be? I have one that's about 6" and one that's about 3", so together, they give me about 9". I'm thinking that wont be long enough.
2. When tightening the pulley nut, I remember someone mentioning a cover that if you take off, you can stick a screw driver in there to keep the pulley pulling from spinning...anyone got any better info on this? Maybe even a photo?
Thanks in advance for all your help!
I'm doing a pulley install with Timeless in the morning, and I think I've got it pretty much down as to what we have to do, but I did have a few questions.
1. The socket extension that we put on the breaker bar, how long does that need to be? I have one that's about 6" and one that's about 3", so together, they give me about 9". I'm thinking that wont be long enough.
2. When tightening the pulley nut, I remember someone mentioning a cover that if you take off, you can stick a screw driver in there to keep the pulley pulling from spinning...anyone got any better info on this? Maybe even a photo?
Thanks in advance for all your help!
02-21-2009, 09:54 PM
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1. Not long enough. Won't get far enough out side the wheel well. Snapping extensions together creates a weak point/lost torque. Might work, but a single 20" is best (Craftsman = $15.99 or, for early in the morning, Lowes or Home Depot might have something).
2. On the AT it's the Transmission inspection port. Hold the Drive Plate in place. Could not find this on my install -
.
2. On the AT it's the Transmission inspection port. Hold the Drive Plate in place. Could not find this on my install -
.
02-21-2009, 10:01 PM
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1. Not long enough. Won't get far enough out side the wheel well. Snapping extensions together creates a weak point/lost torque. Might work, but a single 20" is best (Craftsman = $15.99 or, for early in the morning, Lowes or Home Depot might have something).
2. On the AT it's the Transmission inspection port. Hold the Drive Plate in place. Could not find this on my install -
.
2. On the AT it's the Transmission inspection port. Hold the Drive Plate in place. Could not find this on my install -
.
So if you couldn't find the inspection port, then how did you hold it in place to tighten?
02-21-2009, 10:13 PM
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I used an un-approved method.
With the drive belt installed, all the pulleys are "connected". The Power Steering pulley bolt is reverse-threaded. So, we held the PS Pulley bolt in place and tightened the Crank Pulley bolt against the counter-force.
Got to 130 lb/ft and stopped. Then, re-torqued the PS pulley bolt to spec.
I put index marks on the Crank Pulley and Pulley bolt. Inspected them last week; they haven't moved.
.
Last edited by Bearcat94; 02-21-2009 at 10:18 PM.
02-21-2009, 10:29 PM
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http://www.gates.com/common/part_loc...m.cfm?id=S6037
IIRC, it's the one on the top left. The other upper pulley (not an idler) is the Tensioner Pulley.
I do not know the risks associated with this method. It was done as a necessity and without understanding possible consequences of over-torquing the PS Pulley Bolt. So far, so good, but ....
.
IOW - if you break your car, it's on you.
IIRC, it's the one on the top left. The other upper pulley (not an idler) is the Tensioner Pulley.
I do not know the risks associated with this method. It was done as a necessity and without understanding possible consequences of over-torquing the PS Pulley Bolt. So far, so good, but ....
.IOW - if you break your car, it's on you.
02-21-2009, 10:36 PM
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BTW - if you need a tool list, check this post from the DIY:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=149
https://acurazine.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=149
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02-22-2009, 12:03 AM
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Hmm, alright, well it looks like I need to purchase one more 1/2" drive breaker bar and a metal pipe. Will the normal 19mm 1/2" drive socket not work? Will it be too weak? I guess while I'm at sears, I might as well buy the socket too...
02-22-2009, 03:47 AM
#9
when you try to break the bolt, it helps to rest the wrench on a jackstand so you dont have to worry about breaking anything
and draw a diagram of how the belt goes just in case.
tomorrow im actually free so ill definitely stop by, just gotta tell me the time
and draw a diagram of how the belt goes just in case.
tomorrow im actually free so ill definitely stop by, just gotta tell me the time
02-22-2009, 07:12 PM
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Well, we did the install today. I want to thank Steve (greco9885) and Eric (Timeless) for all their help.
First up was Eric's 6MT. We were installing a stock size pulley with a new belt on his. I sprayed some liquid wrench on the nut while we were getting all the tools prepped up. Stuck the pulley tool in there with a 18" long, 1/2" drive breaker bar. Then we used a 19mm impact socket on the end of a 20" long 1/2" drive extension, all attached to a 15" long 1/2" drive breaker bar. We then supported the end of the extension with a jack stand, and slipped a 4 ft steel pipe over the end of the breaker bar. There was ALOT of flexing, but sure enough, with a little force...CRACK! The bolt loosened right off. We used a socket on the tensioner, pushed towards the rear of the car (the bolt it reverse threaded) and the belt came right off.
Put the new pulley on, put the nut on, and since it was a 6MT, we put it in 6th gear, and stood on the brakes. It tightened right up. Then we realized we forgot the locktite, so we needed to rig up the whole pipe and breaker bar set up again, but it was off and back on before we knew it.
Total time for car 1...about 45 minutes to 1 hour. That's from jacking it up until lowering it back down.
Next up was my 5AT. We installed an underdrive pulley on mine. It was noticably harder to get the bolt off, but after it finally snapped off, we realized that I forgot to spray the liquid wrench on it. All went as above, but we actually removed the wheel on the belt tensioner as my belt was more difficult to remove. When putting the pulley on, we ran into a bit of an issue with it sliding on, so we used the bolt to press it on, no problem
...until we tried tightening it. Being automatic, we couldn't put it in gear and stand on the brakes. We also had no clue where the inspection port was to stick the screwdriver in. We used an impact wrench and got it to 100lbs. Then I had an Acurazine conference call with Alex (infamouslink) and Al (stillhere) and Al assured me that 100lbs was more than enough, especially with the locktite, so we wrapped it up and put the car back together.
Total time for car 2, about 1 hour and a half.
Now for very few pics:
The pulley tool in place:
From L to R. Underdrive, Stock size, boat anchor
And since we weren't which exactly was the belt tensioner, here's a photo for everyone:
And here's a belt schematic that would have helped us out before we started
First up was Eric's 6MT. We were installing a stock size pulley with a new belt on his. I sprayed some liquid wrench on the nut while we were getting all the tools prepped up. Stuck the pulley tool in there with a 18" long, 1/2" drive breaker bar. Then we used a 19mm impact socket on the end of a 20" long 1/2" drive extension, all attached to a 15" long 1/2" drive breaker bar. We then supported the end of the extension with a jack stand, and slipped a 4 ft steel pipe over the end of the breaker bar. There was ALOT of flexing, but sure enough, with a little force...CRACK! The bolt loosened right off. We used a socket on the tensioner, pushed towards the rear of the car (the bolt it reverse threaded) and the belt came right off.
Put the new pulley on, put the nut on, and since it was a 6MT, we put it in 6th gear, and stood on the brakes. It tightened right up. Then we realized we forgot the locktite, so we needed to rig up the whole pipe and breaker bar set up again, but it was off and back on before we knew it.
Total time for car 1...about 45 minutes to 1 hour. That's from jacking it up until lowering it back down.
Next up was my 5AT. We installed an underdrive pulley on mine. It was noticably harder to get the bolt off, but after it finally snapped off, we realized that I forgot to spray the liquid wrench on it. All went as above, but we actually removed the wheel on the belt tensioner as my belt was more difficult to remove. When putting the pulley on, we ran into a bit of an issue with it sliding on, so we used the bolt to press it on, no problem
...until we tried tightening it. Being automatic, we couldn't put it in gear and stand on the brakes. We also had no clue where the inspection port was to stick the screwdriver in. We used an impact wrench and got it to 100lbs. Then I had an Acurazine conference call with Alex (infamouslink) and Al (stillhere) and Al assured me that 100lbs was more than enough, especially with the locktite, so we wrapped it up and put the car back together. Total time for car 2, about 1 hour and a half.
Now for very few pics:
The pulley tool in place:
From L to R. Underdrive, Stock size, boat anchor
And since we weren't which exactly was the belt tensioner, here's a photo for everyone:
And here's a belt schematic that would have helped us out before we started
02-22-2009, 07:24 PM
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Nice. Glad you were able to get it on. Nothing like having people familiar with our cars around to help out. How does it feel? From what I've read, sounds like people get instant feedback from this mod.
02-22-2009, 07:36 PM
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I think I felt some gain, my butt dyno is heavily influenced though by my mind...lol
According to UR and several members, you won't notice the difference for 5-7 days.
According to UR and several members, you won't notice the difference for 5-7 days.
02-22-2009, 07:49 PM
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i should've came out today and knocked mine out too. its just sitting here in the house with the rest of the RV6 package awaiting install. Glad everything worked out. Anytime you got questions, just hit me up. you know how it is.
Dont do everything at once! You just got the Car LMAO!!
Dont do everything at once! You just got the Car LMAO!!
02-22-2009, 08:08 PM
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^^^Haha, I know, I need to slow down...but the temptation!! AHHH
When you do the pulley, if you need help, let me know. Now I'm a pulley veteran, maybe I can help you out this time...haha
When you do the pulley, if you need help, let me know. Now I'm a pulley veteran, maybe I can help you out this time...haha
02-22-2009, 08:27 PM
#18
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haha, i'll take you on the offer if i have to. still owe me lunch as well LMAO!!
Originally Posted by greco9885
- it was so funny, on eric's car we heard the crack and im like "oh fck did the wrench just break" but sure enough it was the bolt
after about 250 miles, the difference will be a bit more noticeable.
after about 250 miles, the difference will be a bit more noticeable.
02-22-2009, 09:29 PM
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I actually bought the pulley and belt off of another member, but it's not hard if you know the part number.
If you're doing the stock sized pulley, you can probably use the belt you already have on there. For the underdrive, it's recomended by Unorthodox Racing to use the Gates K060820 belt. You can also use any other belt that matches that size (82-1/2" or 2096mm)
If you're doing the stock sized pulley, you can probably use the belt you already have on there. For the underdrive, it's recomended by Unorthodox Racing to use the Gates K060820 belt. You can also use any other belt that matches that size (82-1/2" or 2096mm)
02-22-2009, 09:42 PM
#24
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When I got my pulley installed, the results for me were instant.
Light throttle FTW!
Light throttle FTW!
02-22-2009, 09:45 PM
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just for the F of it,
I remembered reading on a thread that the ft lbs on the pulley is around 180. I looked in my service manual and it says 47 ft lbs plus a 60 degree turn. Your 100 is more than enough. Inaccurate was the one that said that factory value is 180 and according to UR and the service manual it is 47 ft lbs + 60 degree turn to reinstall. Your good with the 100.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/torque-specs-ur-stock-sized-crank-pulley-scd-tl-613781/
Link to ft lb thread.
I remembered reading on a thread that the ft lbs on the pulley is around 180. I looked in my service manual and it says 47 ft lbs plus a 60 degree turn. Your 100 is more than enough. Inaccurate was the one that said that factory value is 180 and according to UR and the service manual it is 47 ft lbs + 60 degree turn to reinstall. Your good with the 100.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/torque-specs-ur-stock-sized-crank-pulley-scd-tl-613781/
Link to ft lb thread.
02-22-2009, 09:54 PM
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47 ft/lb + 60 dgress is approx 180 ft/lb. Newer Service Manual says 180 ft/lb.
I knew you guys could do it. I was wondering how much harder the NY winter and what not would make on getting the old pulley off. Not enough to beat you guys, I guess.
.
I knew you guys could do it. I was wondering how much harder the NY winter and what not would make on getting the old pulley off. Not enough to beat you guys, I guess.
.
02-22-2009, 09:54 PM
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just for the F of it,
I remembered reading on a thread that the ft lbs on the pulley is around 180. I looked in my service manual and it says 47 ft lbs plus a 60 degree turn. Your 100 is more than enough. Inaccurate was the one that said that factory value is 180 and according to UR and the service manual it is 47 ft lbs + 60 degree turn to reinstall. Your good with the 100.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613781
Link to ft lb thread.
I remembered reading on a thread that the ft lbs on the pulley is around 180. I looked in my service manual and it says 47 ft lbs plus a 60 degree turn. Your 100 is more than enough. Inaccurate was the one that said that factory value is 180 and according to UR and the service manual it is 47 ft lbs + 60 degree turn to reinstall. Your good with the 100.
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=613781
Link to ft lb thread.
As for those videos I promised, they're over here:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...7#post10557677
02-22-2009, 10:12 PM
#28
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i dont think a 1/6 turn of a nut turns out to be 134 ft lbs. might be wrong tho.
as per service manual. mark the bolt head and crankshaft pulley and then turn the bolt until the next corner.
Page from the book
as per service manual. mark the bolt head and crankshaft pulley and then turn the bolt until the next corner.
Page from the book
02-22-2009, 10:21 PM
#30
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for the videos he put it at the end of his thread
repost of mglax's video thread link
https://acurazine.com/forums/showt...7#post10557677
02-23-2009, 08:28 AM
#33
practicing nihilist
when installing mine a couple days ago, we just blocked the new pulley as best we could in the machined holes and hit it with the impact wrench until the bolt stopped turning. This was at least 100 ft lbs. Tried getting a torque wrench on there to see how much we got, but just ran into the spinning crank problem for the auto's. I didnt use loctite (should of) but we were satisfied this thing wasnt going anywhere.
02-23-2009, 08:42 AM
#34
practicing nihilist
Oh, and I just like working on cars. Call me crazy.
02-23-2009, 03:06 PM
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Tools: $30 for honda pulley tool. I had access to every other tool required for no charge, or I owned the other tools already.
Gas: .2 miles from my house to install location. At $2.50/gallon and 15mpg, that cost me $.03
Other: Locktite. Tube cost me $4. I used 1/8 of it, so $.50.
Total install cost: $30.53
--OR--
1.5 hours of labor at the shop @ $100/hr = $150
Shop is 1 mile from my home, so gas would have cost me $.16 round trip.
So the total install cost is $150.16
I guess I save some $$ on tools and locktite though
But seriously, I, like most others on this board enjoy working on our cars instead of just dropping it off at the shop and picking it up all done. I try to sue the shop only for things that I'm not capable of doing, or I don't feel safe doing. Removing 1 bolt and replacing it, in my opinion, is well within my scope of ability.
02-23-2009, 03:07 PM
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I'm one of those people that is proud of the fact that I did all my own mods on a car born in an era that doesn't want the owner touching it at all. You become very familiar with how your car actually works, which allows you to share valuable info on sites like these. Do you really think a mechanic cares about your car the way you do? There's good mech's out there, but he can't be expected to take the time and care that you would working on your own vehicle.
Oh, and I just like working on cars. Call me crazy.
Oh, and I just like working on cars. Call me crazy.
02-23-2009, 09:25 PM
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This was definitely one of the cheapest and easiest mod's I've done. At least for my car cuz it was stick...Auto, well thats a whole lot more fun.
Impressions: Been driving around all day. The car gets going with a lot less throttle now...more low end torque? It feels really nice actually. Engine definitely spins a little more free and seems smoother. I'm not sure if it feels smoother b/c of the new drive belt, light pulley or I'm crazy.
Conclusion: I'm Happy.
Impressions: Been driving around all day. The car gets going with a lot less throttle now...more low end torque? It feels really nice actually. Engine definitely spins a little more free and seems smoother. I'm not sure if it feels smoother b/c of the new drive belt, light pulley or I'm crazy.
Conclusion: I'm Happy.
02-23-2009, 09:58 PM
#40
Did you guys buy a new belt for the stock size pulley? I just ordered my pulley and P2R spacer today. My car has 33k on it...should I just go ahead and put a new belt on anyway?
Would I just use the stock size belt that I can pick up from any autoparts store?
Thx guys...I can't wait to get mine done
Would I just use the stock size belt that I can pick up from any autoparts store?
Thx guys...I can't wait to get mine done