yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Geez, I hope that number was a joke.

Then again.........I remember the first time I had my 03 TLS dyno'd on a "Heartbreaker" and it made a whopping 170hp before the nitrous kicked in. I still LOL about that till this day when I tell that story.

6spd-GERCO

Tommy can you provide more details on your build? What heads do you have, which j35? What j37 did you get your rotating assembly from? What Cam are you looking at? Aftermarket Pistons and Rods?

I suggest enlisting the help of King Motorsports for your build, those guys are very knowledgeable and have done J series work. ILC car comes to mind when I saw your build.

Also,

yungone501's estimate seems about right at 330 whp but the tq # will be interesting with that extra stroke.

tommy97132

Crank rods and piston off a 09 tl 3.7. The heads are off a 07 type s. The cam is the most crucial part in my build. I want top end power. My concept power band is between 3k - redline. Below that I want the fuel trimmed down. More economical before 3k. The cam profiles I want: vtec and exhaust: all power. Peak hp near redline. On the non vtec cam I just want a 3.7 or even 3.5 stock cam specs... I want my tl sip on gas when cruising..chug when I need it most...

tommy97132

Ksm racing industries. Their valve springs and retainers are titanium

tommy97132

If I can stick with the oem 3.7 internals. That would be great. They are forged already.

6spd-GERCO

Sounds like you can extend the rev range with your springs and retainers, I would think sticking around the stock VTEC will work the best but that will be sorted out once you tune. Who will you be getting the camshafts from?

tommy97132

Ima get in contact with bisimoto.. see if they can build me a custom custom cam lol. I want mine to be specific

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

specific to what? No one even know was stock camshaft duration and lift are...

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

You are won't get very far with this build, I will tell you now. You're expecting this motor to be a glorious high revving monster but don't plan on it lasting using oem internals on its high side thrust, massive stroke crank. When Honda says the rods and pistons are forged, don't expect them to withstand the brutality of you're asking. The pistons are made from a high silicon material that is very brittle and breaks easily...especially in the presence of detonation. A high revving engine has a higher than usually possibility of this happening and when it does, the engine is done. The rods, without the presence of regularly occurring or severe detonation, are generally reliable BUT are too large and heavy for your intended purpose.

I highly suggest using a shorter stroke in this application...and more importantly, forged rods and pistons.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

^ This is what pauls 3.6's are consisted of and i know some with 50+K miles on them. I've been through may set ups including M90/COMPTECH/3.6/DUAL TB…

I am NA right now with almost every possible option (while it wasn't cheap), I can keep up with corvettes. I am not 10 seconds but a nice solid low 12 second TL then do the ultimate weigh loss mod I should see keeping up with cars that run 11's. The TL is not a track car being that its very heavy/fwd etc and being that 95% of races are on the streets I would care less what track time is because i bet it would be high 13s considering the Tls build, while being low 12s on the road. I am seeing around 340-350 wheel with hondata. While I am street tuned I am figuring my numbers with how my car drives/what cars I pull on and friends cars that I have raced knowing all the previous dyne numbers.

I have had and have seen this engine set up with pauls m90 and I would disagree no matter how heavy a turbo build is, it would never be as reliable as a solid built NA motor, esp when you have to constantly check the oil, pressure, knock, air/fuel, account for heat soak etc..

Many underestimate the J series and while there are no simple "bolt on HP gainers", the j series can be built nice. Pair the right engine with a 6 puck clutch/external fuel PR and injectors with hondata and you sir have a nice beast.

Most will want more and more and more, but the way the TL is set up its all about power ban, those 500+ wheel HP TURBO TL's are nothing more than wheel spinning burn out contest winners. As 04accordcoupe said a few years back 360-380 HP is IDEAL for these cars keeping power down/wheels catching etc..

tommy97132

Thank you for that. At least I'm doing it my way. I'm standing my ground on this one... thanks for backing me up

tommy97132

Thanks for your input. I'm still gonna do it my way. The 3.7 cylinder walls are silicon material. Not the rods and pistons. If you have a link. I'll be sure to look at it.

richardparker

iTrader: (7)

How can a higher rpm cam be economical/sip gas at low rpm ?

6spd-GERCO

VTEC lol paired with the 2 different length intake runners.

Tommy, check out ILC build thread:

https://acurazine.com/forums/perform...mplete-897606/

Bisimoto used Webcams for his regrinds, you can cut out the middle man if you want plus I don't see any J-series cams on Bisimotos website. Also, looks like TBmotorworxs has J series billet cams and regrinding services

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Trust me when I say if anyone here has confidence in a stock j-series, it's me. However, the 3.7 does not make a reliable engine when you're talking about revving that high to make power. I have quite a bit of experience specifically with the 3.7 and have seen their flaws.

6spd-GERCO

Can you expand on this? Also what's an accepatable redline for this type of build?

NvrDwn

Vid of 12 second run please. If not show me a 0-125 video i'f you can post under 10 seconds to 100 I'll believe you.

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

Since your in VA, visit paul he helped me build my car. Right now I'm waiting on a good tune. There is nothing stock in my car because like OP said its not cheap but I know its possible.

OP, I get 39MPG on the highway, but I have a 3.2 block as I didn't use the 3.7.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^^ I like your seats!

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

Ack, I'm going to assume your running stock cams, correct?

Also, we would all be delighted in seeing either some dyno charts or videos of your claims. Not saying you're wrong or I don't believe you. It's just wicked how your car hang with even a base model LS1 powered Vette and a claim like that demands some showing off.

tommy97132

The cams can Make that happen. The cam shaft has 2 intake cam profiles. One for economy (non vtec cam) and the other one for power(vtec cam).. best of both worlds right?

6spd-GERCO

I would also like to see this, and I would also like to know about your thoughts on the 3.7 build reliability and redline still... looking for more details....

Grand_hustle17

Ive been waiting on those charts for quite some time myself also lol.. Pm me if you ever see em lmao... Im sure hes not running stock cams though

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I have been waiting on my hondata and its finally in, but need a good tune. Its not my daily and I would love charts too but I am happy with knowing its potential and surprising people because no one really gives the J series credit. Cams are not stock.

3.7 is ok but its basically throwing in an MDX motor and calling it a day. To me, getting the max power from a J series is to literally go deep with the build and not just plug and play items. Just the dual TB alone made my throttle response so much more responsive and helped a lot with air flow to the larger engine.

My biggest issue with the 3.6 and m90 was air, it felt trapped/gasping for air.

Denver, since last year I put about 3k miles on it and been focusing on my business in the mean time of getting hondata to run in the 05. Yes hondata makes it now but a year back with parts already bought/paul making it for me..I had to wait and didn't mind because since last year I changed the drive train to full KMS to help with the high rev.

its a little more than a build too…aero PFR with N1 ss line, RDX injectors, advan sport tires, full 6 puck clutch, short shifter, corsport shifter bushings. Its the little things that count like light weight rims/tires etc..

RD_04TL

I like how you kept it clean, what internals are you running?, if you don't mind sharing, I'm building my auto04 and I'm having some trouble making up my mind in which route to go with it

NvrDwn

As this man said, strong claims such as this require proof of some sort.

yungone501

iTrader: (4)

This all depends on what's used in the build but if we were to answer this based off of what parts were mentioned above, I'd say no more than 300-500 rpms from its factory redline of 6700. Even though the 3.7 has a more than capable valvetrain to rev higher as well as a stronger bottom end (crank and rods at least) than earlier j-series, I'd say its pretty clear that there was a limitation seen in the motor by engineers and therefore took advantage of its design by focusing on power production in low/mid range engine speeds. It sees max power slightly above 6k and before the j35y (Earth Dreams) series engines were made, Honda seen the j37 as a way to move the obese MDX, RL and AWD TL around easier.

As I mentioned, the stroke of the 3.7 is not ideal for a performance build. This is because the piston travels on greater speeds per stroke which will means big problems on bottom end reliability not to mention greater wear on the BRITTLE pistons, THIN rings, and WEAK aluminum cylinder walls. I've got some pretty pictures I could post of a 3.7 on spray and what it did to one cylinder that leaned out...the cylinder and piston contacted causing deep gouges. This is because both are made from aluminum and because cylinder walls are coated (or "impregnated") with silicon rather than cast with silicon like the pistons are, excess heat from leaning out caused them to expand which led to contact. After observing this incident in a friends car, I removed a fresh 3.7 build I had just completed from my engine compartment I planned on running 12-15lbs on and went back to the drawing board. Needless to say, I went back to the proven 89mm iron bore block that I know can handle plenty of abuse.

So yeah, I too use to think that building a 3.7 was the best move to be made with the j-series. And for the most part, they are pretty stout motors....when used in their intended purpose. In my opinion, one would benefit more from a smaller displacement (by stroke) crank that enabled higher engine speeds combined with good cams, valvetrain and free flowing set of j35a8 heads. A motor can only make as much power as the amount of air flowing through it. But when the bottom end and/or valvetrain become a hinderance in reaching full power, it doesn't matter how much air its capable of pumping.



OP, can you clarify if you're intending on using a 90mm block or not with this upcoming 'Fuel Saver/Vette Smasher' build of yours?

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

^ I said keep up with vettes, not smash them. Claiming a low-mid 12 second TL with almost 15k into my engine isn't far fetched. I am far from a liar and an internet bad ass claiming to have the fastest all motor TL or a million mile an hour 4 second 400 trap speed car.

Again, I said its not tuned. Im not in a rush to prove what I have but when it is tuned a video will be posted.

OP, building a high hP motor, the auto will not be able to handle it.

tommy97132

My tl is a 6 speed lol

NvrDwn

A mid low 12 car will beat a LS1 Vette all day (assuming it's stock) as they run typically low 13's. The LS6 vette Stock runs low 12's. Thats a 430hp purpose built car. I'f you are truley low-mid 12's you aren't "keeping up" you're tying them or sometimes even beating them. Thats a solid 375whp needed to do that.

I'm not trying to down you, really I'm not. Low mid 12's is just, hard to believe man. High 12's with a built motor sure, but I haven't seen proof that a built motor can post those times unless it lost a ton of weight.

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

My vette weighed 3100lbs and went 12.5 @ 116 with a bad driver mod. Granted, I had longtubes, but if you think a stock LS1 runs 13s, you're foolin yourself. Maybe with a 2.8 60ft or grandpa that doesn't know how to shift past 5K. my vette only made 360 whp too.

My TL weighs 3400lbs. To 'stay with' my 116mph vette, the TL would need a GOOD 60+ WHP more, probably closer to 80 just because of the vette's torque. Even at the same weight, you'll need more HP just because of the lack of torque comparatively.

I'm sure it is possible to make a nice N/A powered J. With the garbage cams and tiny exhaust (PCDs/J Pipes, etc) vendors have? Not so much.

Ack05 - definitely not a diss, as I love anyone committed to making their car the way they want. While I know you don't need any empirical data, anecdotal evidence is sketchy at best. Believe me, I get that if you provide a dyno, people will say track it - and vice versa, etc ad nauseum.

However, to make completely unsubstantiated claims about how much power it must make etc, doesn't give me a warm fuzzy feeling.

NvrDwn

You had a stock LS1 trapping 116????? That also has to include proof LOL

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

^^

He said he had long tubes. Headers wake up LS motors like nobody's business. 116 mph trap is within reach.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I don't understand what you mean by being high 13's on the track but low 12's on the road? If a car's an upper 13 second car, it's an upper 13 second car. I do understand that from a roll a FWD car with traction issues that runs upper 13's can often keep up with RWD cars that runs mid 13's or a brutally launched AWD car that runs low 13's, but trap speed is still the limiting factor. If you are at an honest 340-350 whp and stockish curb weight, your car could conceivably trap 110 mph. 6MT right?

Grand_hustle17

No way... A 340whp car is maybe 112-114mph trap... I need to get my arse back in a maxima... Im slowly but surely giving up on the TL... 290Whp in my 5.5gen maxima is a 109-110 trap lmao....

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

It's obvious you're still into the Nissans, so there's no shame in it. But regardless, full weight 320-330 whp S/C TLs were only trapping 107-108. Do you understand the concept of power vs weight??

screaminz28

iTrader: (1)

I agree with anx. My old LT1 car weighed 3350 without me in it, and made 360 rwhp with a cam and LTs. It went 113mph and it had a HELL of a lot more torque than a Honda V6.

My old TL ran 98mph in the traps with 230whp. Add 100 whp and 10mph - 330whp and 108. The numbers line up.

Sorry GH - lots of things play into this - weight, power, DA..hahaha :-P

NvrDwn - I'll see if I can find a timeslip, it was a year and a half ago. I just wish I had gone back after I did a cam - it made 425rwhp then. SHoulda been easy 120s.

Grand_hustle17

I def still want a 07+ G sedan 6mt... I dont care for S/C on the 3G. Ive seen CL-s trap higher n pulls on em NA

Grand_hustle17

Well its in gearing also

AckTL05

iTrader: (18)

I don't have any bolt on part, I have a full half cat exhaust T409 3" with magna flow mufflers.

The statement 13 at the track but 12 on the road is because the TL is a hog, heavy FWD car. Ive been to the track a lot a few years back and my buddy would run .5-.7 seconds faster than me respectively because of wheel hop/FWD/etc (he was in a mustang). On the road, every race, even from a stop we were neck and neck.

Ever wonder how car and driver gets their times? Have you ever witnessed a stock STI running the claimed 12.8-13.1 they're "rated" at?

Doesn't make sense, I know, but I don't just dyno and post. I've done street pulls, same time races to accompany for (alt/weather/humidity/heat soak) that most dynos don't give or calibration which maybe off on dynos.

For hondas, dynos are just numbers. numbers that the 3800 pound,FWD,horrible axles TL has to prove itself to.

Just having the 6 puck clutch helps a lot, no slipping/over reving/wait between gears etc..

Sometimes things such as clutch/short shifter/corsport shifter bushings/tires/rims don't add HP, but add "power" and time which is what I'm getting at. i don't have heavy cast wheels, after market clutch or around the corner $40 tires. Those things alone will add almost a second in the 1/4. weight loss alone from the reccaros was around 80 pounds.

if I had the time and free dyno i would love to show what the dual TB alone has to add. Throttle response alone was improved dramatically.