swoosh

iTrader: (5)

so i guess Andy wont post anymore (seeing the trend so far) and we have to figure out for ourselves....

i am in for the community....at first I didnt wanna reveal my true dual built but i was ahh fuck it....the community has given me so much, its time to give a little back....whoever benefits from it....

either way....lets get back on the pnp subject and open a new thread for the cams discussion....

Inaccurate

And quite frankly, it ain't rocket science to us old farts like me. From the hints that I have been seeing thrown around, he did nothing more than some "old school" hot rodding. This is right up my alley. I am willing to help with the basics.

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

Hopefully one day if i become an "old fart" like you, i would have the same knowledge about cars like you.

<hijack> I started some minor weight reduction this week after reading your diet thread. I feel some differences.

What i am worried about is about how much weight need to be taken off the front for the car to start heightening up? I have my sports springs because i like being lower with no wheel gaP </hijack>

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Like??? this is going to be like some backwards science/reverse engineering where we have to figure out how they got to the end product with just the clues lol

veggiemonster

iTrader: (1)

step 1. identify air passages in/on engine
step 2. make them bigger and smoother
step 3. add fuel to match
step 4. throw timing and compression at it.

that's pretty much it. lol

as opposed to boosted performance, where you just jam extra volume. it's the same concepts, except we only get to use the 14.7 barometric. volumetric efficiency FTMFW

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I think the point of all this unwillingness to lay out the mods used to make this type of power is a result of none of these guys having dynoed their cars. I would be surprised if any of this 320-350 WHP claims are anything more than guesses based on butt dynos and time slips. Most of the people I know are proud of their setups and can't wait to share what they are running. Look at innaccurate and his diet threads and Opel and his SC removal thread. Both these guys are credited with coming up with these mods that were widely adopted by the rest of the forum. Impressing people and garnering respect from people you don't know and will likely never meet is something some people desire and others don't. The risk of putting their mods out there and having someone replicate their setups only to make no where near they power promised, and uncovering this has been BS from the start is too high.

I was never interested in anyone proving anything as I have no intention of building a NA setup. I wanted to see a successful NA build that made use of many of the tuning tricks available to other platforms. Instead we got " I'm making big power but am offended by people asking about how I did it." This refusal to do what this forum was setup for ( sharing info on the 3G TL ) is stupid and counterproductive. So keep whatever info you want a secret, you are just slowing down the progress of this forum and hurting those companies that make performance parts for the TL by refusing to talk about their parts.

Inaccurate

Below, I am just talking in general. None of this is particular to our J engine or our TL.

BASIC = Camshaft with spring kit, free flowing intake side (this thread), free flowing exhaust side (headers too), rear-end gears (increased gear ratio), high stall converter, single plane intake manifold

OPTIONAL = Pnp heads, oversize valves, lightened crankshaft, degree'ed camshaft, lightweight pistons, lightweight rods, lightweight valves, electronic rpm limiter, manual valve body trans, trans brake, sticky tires, high energy multi spark ignition (CID MSD), ratchet shifter for auto trans, roller lifters, roller cam, increased ratio rocker arms, cam gear drive, ladder bars or traction bars.

TRICKS = Ice setting on top of intake manifold, chemical treatment to make tires more sticky, cooler water thermostat, vehicle weight reduction, racing fuel.


The above relates to drag racing in general. But, what items are needed to increase the engine HP?


RPM


AND A LOT OF IT.


How do I get that?

A camshaft with a lot of duration at 0.050" lift on the intake side.


If I do this, will my TL be quicker?

Not necessarily. The bigger the cam is, the more unstreetable it becomes. A big camshaft requires gears to fully realize the gains from the camshaft in regards to improving acceleration.


So, I would be wasting my time to get a cam?

Not at all. Just be aware that it is the overall package (the whole car) that will make or break the package. Everything needs to be "sized right". Too much cam can be as bad as not enough cam if you don't (or can't) make the proper adjustments to the overall package.

This is what has always made drag racing fun to me. It ain't easy. Everything (or as much as possible) has to be done right. One component in the package can destroy the effectiveness of the overall package. Make your intake ports too big (as an example), and you will be less quick in a drag race.

Inaccurate

We can't talk about air and then fuel seperately. We talk about flow, flow rates. We talk about having the proper A/F ratio (tuning).

We don't just make air passages as big as possible as I discuss in my post directly above.

We don't try to get as much compression as possible.

We don't make it sound like "oh, it's simple, just increase the efficiency". It is not that easy.

It is not similar to FI. NA plays by it's own special rules and requirements.

gerzand

iTrader: (3)

Isnt it funny how i'm supposedly a guy who wants to "hide" everything, yet when I give my phone number out to people who PM me with a list of questions, noone ever calls. You know what this tells me? People want results with no thinking needed. They want bolt on solutions.

Inaccurate

Wow. Holy shit. Now I see what gerzand is talking about

There is A LOT, LOT, LOT of info out there on the internet about making a serious max-effort NA J engine...... if a person goes looking for it. Including info on gerzand's build too.

I am astounded that I found some Acurazine members holding back on us. I have the names, but I won't post the names. Suffice it to say, that we have Acurazine members that "are in the know" and have been holding back on sharing info.

In one case, there is an active member in this thread that I feel is holding back because I seen on other forums where he knows pertinent information but yet has not shared it with us in this thread. Ironically, this same member in this thread is nagging at gerzand for holding back when he himself has been holding back on A LOT of helpful information that could really help this thread.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

Honestly, wtf is the big secret here anyway?

IMO, if your paying a shop to do all your work for you and your not the one physically doing all the wrenching on your own car....then your really nothing more then someone who can open open up google and get your answers.

No one in this thread is re-inventing the wheel here.

Inaccurate

Well, I could easily be wrong. But, to me, the big deal is going beyond simple bolt-ons to build a serious NA J engine for the TL. Until gerzand, Acurazine has not had any members that attempted to build a serious NA engine. And, you can't build a serious NA engine without using a serious cam. And, only very recently has the TL had a viable tuning solution (J&R) to support the possibility of utilizing a big cam in the TL.

There is the rub. A big cam has the potential to wreak havoc on an oem computer-controlled engine. There are big questions such as

- How well does the J respond to a bigger cam? Are the gains worth the effort?

- How much low-end power is lost?

- How will the drivability be with the oem torque converter?

- What supporting mods *must* the J have to use a bigger cam? Will the rods handle the increased RPM level?

- How well does the J respond to a bigger cam and worked heads?

- Only recently (in relative terms) has any company offered a serious cam for the J engine. It is a regrind. How reliable is the regrind?

True that there is no big secret regarding building a NA engine in general. However, there are a lot of unknowns to building-up a max-effort NA for the TL. It is not rocket science, but there are a lot of unknowns involved for whoever is the pioneer for doing it first with the TL.

Inaccurate

I was wrong. More reading shows that "ethenol" was the first. At least in the 3G forum.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Inacurate is CORRECT!! is his last 3 post. Did you stay up all night reading?? lol

LIBERT- I KNOW gerzand does everything himself. I BELIEVE ethenol as well though.

ethenol

Yes we wrench on our own.... Everything from A to B was done by us and our 2 hands. Nobody touched my car since I have owned it. And I did all the science behind making the car perfect for solo racing. Not the drag strip. I even made my own suspension for the car. This car is a very potent car. I run in DSP everyone on my class... SRT Neons Turbo Cobalts. R32's The old school 944's the little tiny ones with the volkswagen engines in them. I still beat them all. What I am trying to say is this car is capable of a lot. Look at the pic above the back tire is off the ground with no body roll. Everyone must think outside the box and do it correctly. These cars respond well to bolt ons and performance upgrades. But where do you want your car to be? Is it a daily driver? There is too many people out there that want this power. You wouldn't know where to start. And some of us cannot hold your hand through the internet. Figure it out yourself WE DID! Like before it is all here. We have been talking about this shit for years. You have some balls you say? Then buy the cams. You like rumblin and hot chicks... These bumpsticks will get all that for you. Hot chicks love when a guy smells like 110 octane cus there tune is off because they tuned it in 50 degree weather and the just took the car out later in the year and its 80 out... Oh yup thats right gotta retune real quick. Oh and LIBERT 69. You put a bolt on turbo kit on your car, WTF YOU REALLY DID'NT REINVENT THE WHEEL. Shit I put two turbos on a v6 cl its on the forum in the first gen cl check it out, cus all I hear is farts cus your an asshole. Build somthing that 6 other people haven't. I never sai that Andy an I did invent something. We just put all this shit together because it was right in front of our faces. You people minus a handful of smartones and you know who you are. IT WAS ALL SERVED ON A SILVER PLATTER.... Sorry that you do not know how to use a phone or the internet!!! I have also posted on here a million f'in times I own a company called MPP Moores performance parts. Sells Acura v6 parts only to the serious builder. That didn't matter it just seems like is more enjoyable to sit on the forum and waaaaa waaaaa they have no parts for my car.... waaaawwaaaaa they are to expensive... waaaawaaaaa you car never ran that...waaaawaaaaaawaaaa that was photo shopped.... Goodbye

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

^
Guess that solved everything... So back to the topic. How are those PnP'ed mani's and intake runners working out for all of ya? lol

callahan

Has anyone PnP their head yet?

P1zzaman

iTrader: (1)

Picked up this book from Barnes and Nobles, describes fuel air ratio and different components of the engine and exhaust and teaches you what modifications need to be done to get more HP. Looks to be basic things, not a bad read.

http://www.amazon.com/David-Vizards-...1743483&sr=1-1

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

okay... this is getting interesting. Sooo whats the point of being the first to break 300whp N/A? You know the kid down the street with a g37 going to whoop on your ass, and if you ever beat him. He will come back with more shit on his car easily.

Now I understand that you put a lot of hard work researching and testing. Probably spent a lot of money $$. So I can see why you don't want to share the info you got. But sooner or later someone is going to post everything they done to reach their power goal *e.g innaccurate and his diet threads and Opel with the S/C delete and a few other* are going to get the recognition. Also Shelf life for a car is probably around 10 years. People grow up, lose interest, buy a new car, or total their car.

But the real question is, is it really worth being #1 alone?

Anyways, you guys should start a new thread about this cuz this is getting stupid. This was suppose to be about Ported/Polished upper intake manifold.

Inaccurate

David Vizard. Yep, that name rings a bell. I think I remember him writing for some of the hot rodding magazine back in my days.

Magazine and books like you posted was the only source of hot rodding information back in my days. No internet back then.

Inaccurate

Yes

Inaccurate

I agree. Also, this car responds well to weight reductions like I have been preaching for years.

Take any sports car (Corvette, Porsche, BMW, Evo) and add 1,000 pounds to that car. Is it still able to perform to high standards or more like a turd? The same logic, but in reverse, can be applied to our TL.

ethenol, do you have any weight reduction mods?

Inaccurate

Bisimoto J-series camshafts were first developed for competitive off road buggy's with J32 swapped motors racing for hundreds of miles in the deserts that needed a competitive edge. Bisimoto then decided to release this service for the general public.

At this time Bisimoto can not show the dyno numbers being that the racers that they were designed for wish not to share their results due to the competitive nature of their racing. All Bisimoto will say is that the racers were very happy with the results.

ethenol

He said g37 thats funny. And yes Inacurrate I did lose a few pounds. And I have also brought up the sand rail engines and the power they put out. You throw a bottle of nitrous on there and you got a dune assassin. We go to Silver lake up here where I live.

Inaccurate

^ You had experience with adding the cam to the sand buggies before you did the TL ?

ethenol

Yes in the j30a1. In the old cl first gen. And also the j32, non a3 of course.

swoosh

iTrader: (5)

^^^ WTF is a sand buggie ??? LOL

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

What?

The G37 Coupe is a 13.9-14.0/100-102 mph car in stock form.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ yeah it is. + they have like 50000 different bolt on, to make it run 12 easy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zuvyTt0tKY

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

^ the white G had a shitty start too with a 12.2 at 102.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

That timer is screwed. No car can run a 12.2 @ only 102 mph.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

Sure, there are bolt ons for the car, but it's far from "easy" to throw a few of them on and shave a full second of the et.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Just going by the video. seemed fucked up to me since Ethenol did 13.01 at 108.. lol

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

I think the trap speed is probably correct, but the et is way off. If the other car actually ran a (horrible) low 15, a true low 12 second car would be putting bus lengths on it the entire race.

About the best you'll ever see for 102 mph is a low 13, and that's with absolute max traction; either AWD or slicks on a RWD.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

yeah.... I read the comment after I posted it and I can't retract it. lol my bad. But yeah the general idea is that they have a lot more performance mods compared to use J-series guys. And a lot of it has been dyno tested and street proven. The only + for us is that the cams are only 722. There cams are 1k+ for the g35. I don't think there are cams for the g37.

We are only starting to have more opinion available to use such as J&R turbo and the mega squirt ecu. But as far as N/A goes bisimoto looks to be the only way to get more power and they have restrictions on their parts so they can't show dynos.

Anyways I am probably going to try to get a set of runners and port and polish them during my winter break.

anx1300c

iTrader: (2)

That I can't argue with.

If you're interested, there are four sets of used P2R ported runners on e-bay for $240 shipped. I picked up a set, and if I can flip mine for ~ 70 to someone who wants to port them at their leisure, without any down time, it's not too bad of a deal. By the time I bought a die grinder and the assorted bits etc, borrowed an air compressor, and invested my time, I would have been into it for over 170 easily.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ I have all the tools. Just need to put in the time. I will also be porting the manifold. I was thinking about getting the TL-S, but I need to find out if it is a 2 piece of a single piece. Since everyone is doing some research I am also going to put in some time also.

But TY for the listing. I have been eye that on ebay also. lol

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

i bought spare runners for 20 shipped on ebay

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

^ when? and what were the key words?

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

lower intake honda acura.

this was my winning post.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/130581732745...84.m1497.l2649