Rooster'sTL

I'm thinking about getting a CAI, but I live in FL and during the summer months we have crazy down pours that cause a lot of localized flooding.

My buddy hydro-locked, and destroyed, 2 engines in this '03 Honda Accord because his CAI sucked water up like a straw.

Needless to say I don't want to be replacing my engine every time it rains.

My question is, am i better off just getting a K&N filter? Or are there any gains to be made there at all?

I hate cars

No gains. The only thing you'll notice is terrible filtration.

HigdonTL05

i love how when i get done reading this thread there is an advertisment for k&n..... classic

Cheezes

Terrible filtration??? How so?

I hate cars

It's well known and proven with UOAs and numerous studies that K&Ns filter horribly and even worse, that dirt makes it's way past the rings and into the oil. I ran one on my turbo car for year only because there wasn't a paper filter made that would flow enough and I had to deal with compressor wheel abrasion and such. They're good at keeping rocks and small children out of the engine but not much else.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I've ran K&N on cars for years and years with no problems, on turbo cars as well.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index....d=66&Itemid=76

I hate cars

That was against one of the old Amsoil filters, before the EAA line came out. The new ones filter better and flow better than OEM.

Just because you don't have an outright engine failure doesn't mean the filter is doing it's job. I have lots of experience with compressor wheel abrasion over the last 12 years with my car. It sees lots of hard street miles and this problem went away after installing one of the new amsoil filters.

You can not deny all of the UOAs showing extra silicone in the oil with K&Ns that went away after going back to a factory filter.

It is a fact that K&Ns don't filter well and really isn't debatable with all of the proof out there. I personally would never run one on a daily driver. I didn't even want it on my GN but I had no choice until Amsoil came out with their new line.

The air filter is the most important filter on the car, more important than the oil filter. I'm not giving up anything in filtration just to gain no power.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I had my J32A2 motor opened, it had about 40-50k of hard daily driver miles with a K&N. No damage to speak of, the motor was very healthy looking. Proof enough for me.

I hate cars

You can get away with 50K with no filter, it doesn't prove the K&N filters well. The engine is still in it's early wear stages. Was the engine completely disassembled or are we talking a valvecover being pulled off?

In a region where there's lots of humidity and rain the demand on the filter is less. Take it to a dusty area like mine and you start to see the effects of inferior filtration from the K&N.

I've seen this is the form of compressor wheel abrasion and cylinder/ring wear. It's not coincidence that my compressor wheel issues went away when I got rid of the K&N.

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk but it's so well documented that it gets a bit annoying everytime someone challenges the K&N's filtering ability with the argument of "my engine went xxx number of miles and it didn't blow up".

The cotton-gauze is as cheap or cheaper to manufacture than the OEM paper elements. Don't you think they would come from the factory if they were cheaper, filtered as well or better, provided better mpg (not true), and increased power?

Rooster'sTL

Isn't the cone filter on a CAI the same as a K&N?

I was more looking for better MPG than HP.

If i drive like a grandma i can get 20mpg, sometimes 21, and it is driving me nuts. My drive to work is about 12 miles on US 19 where the speed limit is 55, but has traffic lights. So it is sort of city, but when i'm up to speed i should be getting the best MPG my car can deliver and still all i can seem to get is 20.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

Engine completely torn down. We did a 3.5L stroker to it. Please post up the information you have discrediting the K&N. All I have seen in my searches are people like you claiming stuff with no proof in my book. My proof is that I tore down my motor. So you had a bad experience with your aftermarket turbo?

The only article I've EVER been able to find is this which has been shown to be biased for AC Delco:
http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm

The K&N filter to me is like the Unorthodox crank pulley. If it is such a truely terrible product that does nothing but damage to vehicles, how could a business stay open for so long selling products. I'd love to see someone break down a motor and show me tests and show me oil tests, but I cannot seem to find anything...

I hate cars

I don't need to prove it to another guy asking the exact same questions. Go over to bobistheoilguy and dig around the airfilter section and the UOA with a K&N filter section and you'll see for yourself.

I've been into numerous engines myself and you can tell the difference in the ones with and without a K&N. The owners would look at me with a surprised look when I told them they ran a K&N. Typically cylinders have more scoring and more all out wear. Aftermarket or stock turbo is a moot point in compressor wheel abrasion.

You can't base claims on a 40-50K motor or one guy that made it a bunch of miles. Try driving through a few dust storms with a K&N and get back with me. There are some regions where you could do 100,000 miles with no filter. There are some that would kill an engine in 15,000 miles. I've seen it done with a K&N in Austrailia, all 4 of their fleet Tacomas needing an overhaul from dirt ingestion in an extremely dirty area. The real eye opener was when my turbo had a little oil getting past the intake side and it left a fine residue of oil on the intercooler piping. You would not believe all the dirt sticking to the pipes.

In the end, believe what you want. I have the facts and the experience with not one but over 30 engines with and without K&Ns.

I hate cars

I guess one of the things I'm getting at is do you know what you're looking at with a torn down engine. Are you able to identify simple things like the subtle damage from dirt ingestion or did you just see hone marks on the cylinders and call it good?

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

I had a professional engine builder who builds plenty of motors for race teams and daily drivers look it over.

I hate cars

In the end it's your engine to do what you want with. I've built enough of them to know that I don't want a K&N on anything but a race engine. I wouldn't use one in the TL if it were free. The only thing I have a problem with is you saying it's perfectly fine and filters ok when it doesn't. This board needs facts, not opinions so the posters can make an educated choice on what filter to use. If the OP wants to use a K&N after finding out it doesn't filter worth a crap, then that's fine. But it's a different story if he's led to believe the K&N filters well and uses it not knowing what he's getting himself into.

CleanCL

iTrader: (4)

The only thing I have a problem with is that you really didn't back anything up with facts, just what you state. No one really knows if you pulled apart a motor or not. No one knows if I did. I ask, but no one delivers. Show me the cold hard facts and I will concede.

TL|GTX

lol alot of ppl on here prolly know that I hate Cars, has done alot of engine rebuilds and work, just by his expierence.

I hate cars

The facts are out there you just have to find them. I'm honestly too tired of having to prove this stuff every time someone with a new idea comes along. Maybe when I get off of work I'll dig up some tests.

I have never bothered saving anything because I've seen with my own eyes what a K&N does to an engine in the right conditions. My decision not to use one on a daily driver was made many years ago. You can choose to believe that I've torn down and built many 500+hp small displacement engines or you can chalk me up to just another internet expert, I don't care.

Quite honestly it gets old being challenged in every statement I make. I think I'll keep this stuff off the internet for now on and use it for my own good.

Acura Jeff

Uh oh, here we go....

ducati748R

Hey man, I hate cars is one of the more knowledgeable members on the boards. As he said, all you need to do is a Blackstone UOA and see that the silicone will be higher on an engine that uses an oiled filter...silicone=dirt! Basically, there is no free lunch. You can't have a better flowing filter that also offers better filtration than the OEM paper unit. Just doesn't work like that. The Amway filter may be better in terms of keeping the engine cleaner v.s an oiled filter, but it doesn't flow as well. If your goal is to get the best possible flow then a K&N or similar oiled filter is the way to go. If you're prepared to do more frequent oil changes and other maintenance then you'll probably be fine with an oiled filter. Just remember it comes at a price...