The way it can be looked at improving MPG is it takes less pedal to get up to speed. If the car makes more HP then less pedal is required to achieve the desired speed. Less pedal to get you where you want to go equals increased MPG.

This is evident when you try going on a 100mi trip at a constant 40MPH vs 80MPH. Less pedal = better efficiency.

 

Babying the car = Driving erratically = Low MPG

Drive the car enthusiastically, between 2.5K & 4K rpms, and you'll have a good mileage. Stick to the speed limit, and you'll save even more. Accelerate and brake gradually.

Oh yeah, F*ck the fuel economy, enjoy the car!

 

Less pedal= less airflow=less power=better mileage
Dirty filter= less airflow=less power=better mileage

What does it take for you guys to understand this? IT TAKES A CERTAIN AIRFLOW TO MAKE A CERTAIN POWER LEVEL. A dirty filter can only cause a loss in power. It is physically impossible to get worse gas mileage with a dirty filter in a fuel injected car.

 

Okay so there is no MAF sensor on the 04 to 08 TL? I just installed a K @ N recently mainly because I've used them for many years with no (obvious) side effects. I am a little concerned about the oil coming off the filter and messing up the air flow sensor. So what's that little plug that sits just top the engine just after the rubber intake track ends??

 

No MAF. It's a speed density system.

The sensor you're looking at could be the charge air temp or the DBW plug.

 

DBW plug? I'll have to wikipedia that one. Well I guess in a year or so I might as well go back to the stock air filter. Geez you would think a company that has been around as long as they have that they would make a better product. They don't seem that bad in normal non dusty areas of the country but I guess you folk in Australia and the dust bowl Midwest better reconsider.

 

Well that's exactly it. Region has a lot to do with it. Where I live it gets pretty dusty and it gets right past the filter. I ran one on my turbo car for many years out of necessity.

DBW= Drive By Wire, the plug that controls the throttle plate in place of the traditional throttle cable.

 

I had a K&N on my civic for 5 years with no issues and I now have one for my 06 TL. I just like that I don't have to change it as often as a regular filter...

 

What's often? Mine has only needed to be replaced twice in 94,000 miles and 5 years. Are you going that long on a K&N without cleaning and oiling it? The oil is pretty much gone after 2 years so frequency really isn't different between factory and K&N. Obviously it's cheaper to clean it than to buy a new one so I'll give you that one. It's just not worth it for little to no gain to have worse air filtration when this is the most important filter on the car. I probably have different expectations since I plan on seeing how many miles I can put on the car. If it were a lease or I planned on only putting 150,000 I would probably do a K&N.

 

The only reason people buy K&N or any other aftermarket filters is because theres claims on a gain. If there was no claims on gains and such, no one would ever entertain the thought of getting another filter other than OEM. You refuse to believe anything other than the claims, because you've already invested towards it, and betraying yourself goes against the beliefs you've planted into your head. You guys believe exactly what you want/wish for, and never give it a second thought that in fact this just might not be possible. (I'm not guessing, because IT IS NOT!)

 

Ok here is my . When I first purchased my motorcycle the very first thing I purchased for it after the alarm system I installed myself is the K&N. The mortorcyle was already past it's break in period. I fill up the tank and always put in the same amount of gas according to the volume numbers on the gas pump display. I reset my mileage as I leave the Gas station. I did this for the first several months to compare it with my best friends motorcyle and see how much gas I was saving to and from work using the motorycle vs my crx. Well of course there is a huge difference even when i'm riding my bike like i stole it most of the time. Long story short. I finaly decided on K&N filter. Better mileage was achieved. On top of that after about a month or two I purchase my Powercommander for my motorcyle and Boom the bike takes off like a jet after remapping everthing lol. My crx has aem, my jeep has aem, my motorcycle has K&N still and my TL has aem. Thought I might as well throw it in there. Again without proper air to fuel ratio you get a crap running car or motorcycle. More air does not necessarly mean better gas mileage. They call it Fuel to Air ratio for a reason it's cause the two have to work hand in hand. So depending on what you want to accomplish be it better HP or better Mileage then remapping of such ratio is needed to achieve optimum gains for what reasons you need. Again we can't do much with the mixtures for our cars but filters do their jobs if you know how to use them well. Most people will give their opinions based on prejudice. Choose what you want for what ever reason you feel you've researched on. Not on what people tell you. Unbiased reviews are tough to find.

 

Lets put the facts out there and people can make their own decisions....

A K&N will give 0hp on a stock or bolted TL.

A K&N does not filter as well as a stock filter.

No air filter can give better mpg on a TL or any EFI car.

A K&N will need cleaning and re-oiling about as often as you need to replace a factory filter.

 

I have a K&N because it was the only one in stock locally that would fit over my intake.

BTW, I probably should put this in the turbo thread but I don't have surging with my intake and filter setup. I do have a stumble getting there but once in full boost it's just a rocket.

 

1989 Toyota Supra Turbo - K & N cone filter for 17 years and 165,000 miles - no problems.

2004 TL - K & N for 7 years and 100,000 miles so far - no problems.

 

It's not going to blow up or anything. But you are creating extra wear. Whether it's the difference between 200,000 miles or 300,000 who knows. Personally I'm not willing to sacrifice filtration for absolutely no benefits.

 

I can fully understand in your case. There is no paper filter that flows enough for your car and a K&N is completely necessary and justified.

If you ever get bored with the setup you can check into Amsoil filters. They flow just about as well as a K&N but require no oil and filter as well as paper filters.

 

Well, I only changed it twice in my Civic, but I also only put about 65k on it in 5 years. I could tell that it helped that tin can move a little better but honestly not sure if its helped much in the TL. I may change it back to the stock filter and see if I can see any difference based on this post....

 

I have run K&N filters in several cars for many years now.

- Haven't had an issue with dirt. Haven't had any issue with engine wear...my IROC lost all compression in one cylinder at 60K miles, but I don't think that has anything to do with the K&Ns...considering the dirty side of the filter isn't even dirty, let alone anything upstream from that. I may or may not find out soon, depending what I do with the car....

- I have felt a slight, not OHMYGOD!!!, but worthwhile, power increase in every car I've installed one in...of course, some of them replaced dirty paper filters, but some replaced clean paper filters. I felt a nice bump with the TL, but the paper filter was filthy, and there were a couple whole dry leaves in the airbox with it too

- I haven't noticed gas mileage one way or the other. If that's your objective, I wouldn't recommend it, not only because I don't think it'll do a whole lot, but also, as has been said a million times, you're only going to bury your foot in it more!!!

Let the debate continue....

 

No offense, but people put way too much stock in this theory, in many realms - cars, audio equipment, whatever. I go into things with an open mind, I've wasted more than $50 on things and decided they didn't work. Case in point, I believed wholeheartedly that I'd feel at least as much, if not more difference on my Z28, from an aftermarket pulley set, as I did from the K&N's. It didn't happen. I didn't take the pulleys off, the car didn't feel *worse*...but I really didn't feel a difference, let alone feeling the amount of difference that I expected...I believed in both about equally going in, and the pulleys cost probably 3x what the filters (two of them, dual snorkel setup) did, maybe more...so if your theory is correct, I should have convinced myself that I felt somewhere between 1 and 3 times as much "gains", or "improved driving experience", or whatever. Most people suck, and there are far too many idiots in the world...but that doesn't mean that we universally fool ourselves into believing in things just because we spent $50 on them.

Put another way, pop psychology often suggests that we're all even stupider than we are...continued survival of the species, in defiance of Darwinism, suggests otherwise.

 

You're 1 in 1000. Ive spent far more than $50 on things but I wasn't looking for a difference, I was rather experimenting, but it doesn't apply the same way, because I don't claim and swear by a difference something may have made, and maybe neither do you. What we're talking about is people swearing by what they do, and defending it to death, even when some things are scientifically impossible. What I said were general statements, and if none apply to your way of things, than you're not amongst the bunch. But, you shouldn't ignore the fact that there's a lot of people out there with that mentality, and never think otherwise. The amount of money doesn't make a difference in how much you fooled yourself into believing something. Its the implementation alone. People in general don't wanna face the outcome of making a wrong decision, so that's another reason to believe you made the right one, even when its the opposite. Look at the countless debates between the AEM intakes, and how many people have gotten the latest one, while already having one, because somehow they were convinced that it made more power. I wonder what convinced them!

Some have tried some kinda bullshit "breakthrough technology" plugs and swore they made power.

Come on man, this is plain fucking stupid.
Now we can either have a debate on people's psychological behavior or the goddamn K&N filter.

 

LOL, well you make some very good points there...and debating people's psychological behavior, while arguably more interesting, could easily fill a whole other set of forums. Plus it won't do shit for my car, so yeah, onward and upward, then...

 

I just found this comparison of all these filters, bob... from bobistheoilguy basically states that the amsoil filter you are praising so heavily was a "disappointment" and "at best just as good as the K&N".

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/airfilter/airtest3.htm

So where does this leave us now?

 

That's the ooooold Amsoil filter. You can't buy those anymore, they haven't been made for at least 3 years. I've seen the tests of the new filters and they are awesome.

 

sweet.. ive been digging on the net as far as any other forums I can get my hands on... consensus basically gives the amsoil the win...

from what I understand the K&N will def flow more CFM then the amsoil, with a trade off in lack of filtration, which the amsoil wins.

So I guess its the give and take of which is more desired in each person, however good news is from what I read the amsoil still flows better then stock... I think I feel my body leaning towards amsoil, and thats if I dont do my DIY CAI just because I feel like I have to build something homemade... lol I know I know so contradictory .... please talk me out of it for the just the noise factor

 

The Amsoil flows very close to a K&N size for size. If you want specs, look up the Donaldson Nanofiber filters who are suppliers to Amsoil.

Filtration is as good and better than stock filters which is amazing given their flow.

You basically have smaller pores in the Amsoil filter but you have less space between the pores so you get more of them. Finer filtration and great flow in one filter. And you don't have to oil them.

CFM is not a major factor in deciding on a filter for a TL. The stock filter does not pose a restriction on a stock engine so adding a higher flowing filter will do nothing.

 

ahhh ok I figured it did since you were referring to better filtration and FLOW.. flow meaning CFM or at least thats what I was interpreting it as... arent those two things the same... flow=CFM?

 

Same thing. I meant in the TL's case you don't have to worry about CFM.

The only reason I ever worried was making the switch on the GN which was already at the limits of the current 9" K&N I had on there. I could only get approximate flow rates on the Amsoil so the only logical thing was to go larger and give myself a safety margin.

 

What about when we start adding bolt ons and exhaust? or do you mean stock engine=stock internals etc....

 

May I have a question ? Why can't I find the Amsoil Air filter of my 07 TL in amsoil website but I can see on 05 TL ? Are they the same ? I think they display WIX.

 

Stock airflow. Exhaust mods are the best bang for the buck on these cars but they don't increase the airflow requirements of the inlet tract much. The only mods I can think of that increase airflow are those that are rarely ever done such as intake and head porting.

A higher flowing filter won't hurt anything but it just won't help either.You can't lose torque or any of that stuff that you hear around here. Look at the TL's airbox. It has a corner cut off so technically it's just a little smaller than the base model's airbox even though it has a larger more powerful engine. There's plenty of extra flow in the stock setup.

 

I think all base models are the same and Type S is different.

However, I wouldn't go to the trouble of ordering the Wix. I don't think they make the good filters for our TLs. That would be the nanofiber filters. Wix are good but nowhere near as good as Amsoil's top of the line filter. If you're looking for great filtration, the OEM filter is the best I've seen so far. Acura really specified a great air filter for these cars.

 

I see, somehow I think "mobile" before I used to change my oil myself bent and broke the lip on the top of the air box under the intake arm that creates the seal on the bottom half of the box.. so now its either pay for another :stock: top half of a air box, or custom build a CAI for sound and for a little more throttle response.... ahhhhh talk about racking my brain.

 

I would do the custom setup for sure. It could be as easy as extending the stock hose out slightly and clamping a cone filter of your choice onto the end of it. It would probably come in under $65.

 

yeah I think thats where I am leaning.... just after reading this thread makes it hard to want to put a K&N style filter on the car.. I was going to go with a velocity stacked type filter with a 3 inch intake tube... just for S&G to see if I could pull a few ponies out of it for debate sake on here.... any idea of "blox" velocity stack filters are dangerous or about as good as K&N in filtration?

 

It makes me want to stay away from K&N also. When I bought the car they already have K&N filter. I thought it make small gain and little bit more dirty but with no gain I won't touch it again.

 

can anyone recommend a good paper filter to get? maybe model#?

 

OEM is probably the best paper filter out there. It has much better rubber for the seals that won't dry out and crack. It uses 3 stage filtration with oil, fiber, and paper.

 

Just shut up your just anti K&N we get it. I have it and know plenty of people who have it and have no problems.

 

Just be glad the keyboard protects people like you from people like me. Enjoy, this is the only place you can get away with talking like that. I try and educate people but some are too ignorant to be educated. I've torn down engines, I know what K&Ns do to engines over the long haul. You're just some punk kid in a slow car that couldn't change his own oil.

I like your avatar. I would be pissing all over that slow POS.

 

Calm down buddy all i said is to stop making K&N seem like it completely destroys every car. I have it i doubt it increases horsepower or MPG, but i know it works like a fitler is supposed to work. Naw meen.