K&N Air Filter
09-12-2009, 05:35 AM
#3
maybe trying to gain some post count?
The K&N air filter is better than stock becasue it flows better and can be cleaned and reoiled up to 1 million miles of use~
paper filters last a year,,maybe
The K&N air filter is better than stock becasue it flows better and can be cleaned and reoiled up to 1 million miles of use~
paper filters last a year,,maybe
09-12-2009, 05:33 PM
#4
Drifting
Yes, but the stock filters work better filtering stuff that will get past a K&N. I used to be a big fan of K&N filters, but changed my tune after reading about all the crap that gets past them. The performance improvement is marginal at best and you run the risk of fouling sensors in your intake with the oil residue. If I were you, I would stick with a paper filter for a stock intake- you'll save money and time. It takes time (as in hours) for the K&N to dry after you do clean it- not as quick and a direct swap of a paper.
Plus you only need to change the air filter every 20K, you won't break even with the savings of a K&N until you're close to 80K anyway because you'll need to pop for a $15 filter cleaning kit after your initial purchase. But then there are the issues I have already pointed out: sub-par filtering and needing to wait hours to drive your car after a cleaning. I used k&N filters in my old Maxima and Suburu's but won't in the Acura knowing what I know now.
Plus you only need to change the air filter every 20K, you won't break even with the savings of a K&N until you're close to 80K anyway because you'll need to pop for a $15 filter cleaning kit after your initial purchase. But then there are the issues I have already pointed out: sub-par filtering and needing to wait hours to drive your car after a cleaning. I used k&N filters in my old Maxima and Suburu's but won't in the Acura knowing what I know now.
09-13-2009, 08:31 AM
#6
Suzuka Master
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I hear that their special filter oil is from a snake.
I hear that their special filter oil is from a snake.
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09-13-2009, 10:47 AM
#8
Drifting
^ My comments are very proven and I have actually washed the filters which perhaps you may not have done yet. You really should read these test results and you might change your mind on K&N:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index....d=58&Itemid=66
I was like you are 8 years ago- these test results changed my outlook.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index....d=58&Itemid=66
I was like you are 8 years ago- these test results changed my outlook.
09-13-2009, 11:49 AM
#9
the TL does not have the wire sensor in the TB throat that is the problem in other cars- so that ones false~
Massive Over-oiling from not following directions is the most common problem- that little can of spray oil is supposed to do 5 filters!
A new filter comes ready to use- you dont need the refill kit until 50k miles, you can do it sooner but thats the point at which its only flowing as much air as a new paper filter--
so every 2 years give it a cleaning to be safe
OEM parts are not the best parts available- they are only the best price acura or any maker can get on a huge order of them...paper alone does not catch the stuff in todays roadways- always under constructon - dust-pollen- who knows what else
smart shoppers can find coupons for free refill kit with purchase of air filter--if you can remember where its stored for a few years lol
Im a gen2 and asked an honest question as to what gen3 got for a stock filter- after reading about oil and 2 colors? is it all paper or is it hybrid or what? please educate me!
another feature of K&N is the way it seals- with the cover bolts going thru the rubber gasket of the filter- that prevents high vac pressures from sucking the seal loose and ruining performance and running. Not seen on other filters
Massive Over-oiling from not following directions is the most common problem- that little can of spray oil is supposed to do 5 filters!
A new filter comes ready to use- you dont need the refill kit until 50k miles, you can do it sooner but thats the point at which its only flowing as much air as a new paper filter--
so every 2 years give it a cleaning to be safe
OEM parts are not the best parts available- they are only the best price acura or any maker can get on a huge order of them...paper alone does not catch the stuff in todays roadways- always under constructon - dust-pollen- who knows what else
smart shoppers can find coupons for free refill kit with purchase of air filter--if you can remember where its stored for a few years lol
Im a gen2 and asked an honest question as to what gen3 got for a stock filter- after reading about oil and 2 colors? is it all paper or is it hybrid or what? please educate me!
another feature of K&N is the way it seals- with the cover bolts going thru the rubber gasket of the filter- that prevents high vac pressures from sucking the seal loose and ruining performance and running. Not seen on other filters
09-13-2009, 12:55 PM
#11
Race Director
^ My comments are very proven and I have actually washed the filters which perhaps you may not have done yet. You really should read these test results and you might change your mind on K&N:
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index....d=58&Itemid=66
I was like you are 8 years ago- these test results changed my outlook.
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/index....d=58&Itemid=66
I was like you are 8 years ago- these test results changed my outlook.
You forgot to include the disclaimer at the beginning of that article:
"Of course these are not standard ASTM tests and by no means represent any scientific certainty."
I have had the K&N in my 04TL since the first air filter change interval and am now nearing 80K miles. I have lived on a dirt road for the last 3 years. I wash and re-oil the filter at regular intervals and I can tell everyone here that the filter is indeed dirty when I wash it. In addition, the throttle body side of the air box is always spotless: no dirt, no oil. I have never had any fouling of the throttle body or thrown a single code for 80K miles. I regularly get 32 mpg highway mileage and avg 24-26 city/highway (all with A/C on). This is an overal 2-3 mpg increase over the standard filter.
My unscientific experience using this filter is very positive and I don't plan on changing. I would highly recommend this filter to anyone.
09-13-2009, 02:38 PM
#12
Drifting
^ I'll be dropping out of this thread. You can believe in the K&N if you want, but I regularly get the same MPG w/o a K&N and I don't have any codes thrown either. My throttle body was spotless as well after the last replacement. I also have the option of getting better than OEM paper filters from a number of manufacturers too.
But what about the K&N's filtration capabilities? Did you happen to see this text:
"The "high performance" cotton gauze and foam filters do not filter as well as some have claimed. I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. This may be true, and 1% may not sound like much. I contend that 1% over many miles, may be important. Really, it is up to each individual to decide. The poorer flowing filters, remove more particles, and the better flowing filters remove less particles. If you think about it, that conclusion passes any and all common sense tests, so it is not surprising. There are many that will be shocked by the results, that should not be though. I've used high performance filters in the past, and I might again in the future. At the same time, I know that the stock OEM type filters perform very well in filtration and don't inhibit flow nearly as much as some think"
This is beginning to feel like a 'why I change my oil every 3k miles' type of debate. You can spend the extra money and time on the K&N and it probably won't hurt your car much but it's probably not going to help the car either. I think the best argument for K&N is if you think the supply of paper filters dies (e.g., Mad Max like times)- you at least have a Million mile filter but then what about gasoline?
But what about the K&N's filtration capabilities? Did you happen to see this text:
"The "high performance" cotton gauze and foam filters do not filter as well as some have claimed. I actually received an e-mail from K&N stating their filters filter within 99% of the OEM filters. This may be true, and 1% may not sound like much. I contend that 1% over many miles, may be important. Really, it is up to each individual to decide. The poorer flowing filters, remove more particles, and the better flowing filters remove less particles. If you think about it, that conclusion passes any and all common sense tests, so it is not surprising. There are many that will be shocked by the results, that should not be though. I've used high performance filters in the past, and I might again in the future. At the same time, I know that the stock OEM type filters perform very well in filtration and don't inhibit flow nearly as much as some think"
This is beginning to feel like a 'why I change my oil every 3k miles' type of debate. You can spend the extra money and time on the K&N and it probably won't hurt your car much but it's probably not going to help the car either. I think the best argument for K&N is if you think the supply of paper filters dies (e.g., Mad Max like times)- you at least have a Million mile filter but then what about gasoline?
09-23-2009, 06:30 PM
#13
Its very common for people to think the oil will get past the filter and cause problems, this is false. The side of the filter facing into the intake has a layer of hospital grade gauze that keeps oil particles from passing into ur intake. If your using that much oil you have a problem.
09-23-2009, 06:46 PM
#14
05' AT SSM
The problem is when you go to re-oil the filter, for 40-50 bucks i just threw mine away and put in a new one.
Yeah like 01 says are cars don't have any sensors near the filter, on my last car the MAF sensor did get gunked up after i re-oiled the filter. It was right on top of the air box..
K & N filter does let more air through, whether or not it filters better i don't know.
Yeah like 01 says are cars don't have any sensors near the filter, on my last car the MAF sensor did get gunked up after i re-oiled the filter. It was right on top of the air box..
K & N filter does let more air through, whether or not it filters better i don't know.
09-23-2009, 06:58 PM
#15
Instructor
i rather use napa gold filter for my type s than k&n filter. Many other forums including acurazine stated that K&N filter is over price and dirty your engine quicker.
09-23-2009, 07:08 PM
#16
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Yes, but the stock filters work better filtering stuff that will get past a K&N. I used to be a big fan of K&N filters, but changed my tune after reading about all the crap that gets past them. The performance improvement is marginal at best and you run the risk of fouling sensors in your intake with the oil residue. If I were you, I would stick with a paper filter for a stock intake- you'll save money and time. It takes time (as in hours) for the K&N to dry after you do clean it- not as quick and a direct swap of a paper.
Plus you only need to change the air filter every 20K, you won't break even with the savings of a K&N until you're close to 80K anyway because you'll need to pop for a $15 filter cleaning kit after your initial purchase. But then there are the issues I have already pointed out: sub-par filtering and needing to wait hours to drive your car after a cleaning. I used k&N filters in my old Maxima and Suburu's but won't in the Acura knowing what I know now.
Plus you only need to change the air filter every 20K, you won't break even with the savings of a K&N until you're close to 80K anyway because you'll need to pop for a $15 filter cleaning kit after your initial purchase. But then there are the issues I have already pointed out: sub-par filtering and needing to wait hours to drive your car after a cleaning. I used k&N filters in my old Maxima and Suburu's but won't in the Acura knowing what I know now.
Just to give some data on the otherside, I have put over 400k miles on K&N filters over the years and run one in my CL-S with over 150k miles on it. I had an oil analysis done at 100k and analyst commented that this was the cleanest 100k engine he had ever analyzed (I use Mobil1 every 5k miles). If the filter were letting junk by, you'd see it as blowby in the oil. In addition, all of the sensors are original on this car and it just blew 0.00 and 0.01 smog numbers (i dont have the paper to remember them all) but the guy couldnt believe how clean it was. Anyway, eveyone will make up their own mind but I will continue a satisfied K&N customer, achieving slightly better economy, throttle response and clean sensors and oil. To each his own.
09-24-2009, 07:23 AM
#17
Safety Car
dgracer,
Thanks for taking the time to post. We always appreciate comments from people that have first-hand experience. Well written reply with excellent examples to support your stance. Thanks
Thanks for taking the time to post. We always appreciate comments from people that have first-hand experience. Well written reply with excellent examples to support your stance. Thanks
09-24-2009, 02:43 PM
#18
Team Owner
You would be wrong when you say "My comments are very proven..."
You forgot to include the disclaimer at the beginning of that article:
"Of course these are not standard ASTM tests and by no means represent any scientific certainty."
I have had the K&N in my 04TL since the first air filter change interval and am now nearing 80K miles. I have lived on a dirt road for the last 3 years. I wash and re-oil the filter at regular intervals and I can tell everyone here that the filter is indeed dirty when I wash it. In addition, the throttle body side of the air box is always spotless: no dirt, no oil. I have never had any fouling of the throttle body or thrown a single code for 80K miles. I regularly get 32 mpg highway mileage and avg 24-26 city/highway (all with A/C on). This is an overal 2-3 mpg increase over the standard filter.
My unscientific experience using this filter is very positive and I don't plan on changing. I would highly recommend this filter to anyone.
You forgot to include the disclaimer at the beginning of that article:
"Of course these are not standard ASTM tests and by no means represent any scientific certainty."
I have had the K&N in my 04TL since the first air filter change interval and am now nearing 80K miles. I have lived on a dirt road for the last 3 years. I wash and re-oil the filter at regular intervals and I can tell everyone here that the filter is indeed dirty when I wash it. In addition, the throttle body side of the air box is always spotless: no dirt, no oil. I have never had any fouling of the throttle body or thrown a single code for 80K miles. I regularly get 32 mpg highway mileage and avg 24-26 city/highway (all with A/C on). This is an overal 2-3 mpg increase over the standard filter.
My unscientific experience using this filter is very positive and I don't plan on changing. I would highly recommend this filter to anyone.
It is 100% impossible to see a mpg increase from a lower restriction airfilter on a fuel injected car. I've posted the government tests with completely plugged filters to no filters. Your imaginary mpg increase makes the rest of what you say invalid IMO.
You don't have to see dirt for it to get into the engine. The used oil analysis of people that run K&Ns always have higher than normal silicone in the oil. This is of course after it squeezes past the rings to get into the oil. This is a consistent happening over many different makes of cars. The info is out there, you just have to search.
Like I've said before, the car is not going to die a short death with a K&N but at 100,000 or 150,000 it's not going to be as healthy as it could be. The airfilter is the single most important filter on the car, more important than the oil filter. Why would you swap it out for something that gives no performance increase on a stock engine?
I've seen the impact first hand as I've run K&Ns for years on the GN. I had no choice up until fairly recently due to the airflow requirements. There's not a paper filter that would fit under the hood that would flow enough. I had problems with compressor wheel abrasion. The "blades" were getting dull due to dust getting past the filter. When Amsoil came out with their EAA line of synthetic cone filters I switched and the abrasion problems have gone away. I expect engine life to improve also.
09-24-2009, 02:47 PM
#19
Team Owner
Its very common for people to think the oil will get past the filter and cause problems, this is false. The side of the filter facing into the intake has a layer of hospital grade gauze that keeps oil particles from passing into ur intake. If your using that much oil you have a problem.
09-25-2009, 07:45 AM
#20
Safety Car
Hey IHC,
I have been wondering for a long time if the EAA line of synthetic filters use the same media as AEM Dryflow filters? I have never seen an EAA, so I have no clue. Have you seen an AEM Dryflow? If so, do they look to be the same media? Thanks
I have been wondering for a long time if the EAA line of synthetic filters use the same media as AEM Dryflow filters? I have never seen an EAA, so I have no clue. Have you seen an AEM Dryflow? If so, do they look to be the same media? Thanks
09-25-2009, 11:04 AM
#21
Team Owner
I've wondered the same thing. They look the same..... I *think* but I'm not certain that the Amsoil air filters are also licensed from Donaldson like their oil filters. One thing to mention is that I run a vacuum guage on the air inlet on the GN. The EAA filter pulled more vaccum for the same size as the K&N. I ended up having to go to a 14" cone filter to get rid of the vacuum. So it looks like the K&N is less restrictive and the Amsoil is much better than paper but not as good as a K&N in flow. Supposedly the Amsoil filters better than paper though. The difference would never show up on a TL but I thought I would mention it.
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