J-Series has immense potential
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05-02-2012, 02:18 PM
#44
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^^^ THIS
but anyway we all know the J series has immense potential....need to know what we can do the increase the potential of the damn tranny !!!
but anyway we all know the J series has immense potential....need to know what we can do the increase the potential of the damn tranny !!!
05-02-2012, 02:26 PM
#46
takin care of Business in
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^^^ you bastid 
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Franchise1124 (05-02-2012)
05-02-2012, 02:33 PM
#47
Three Wheelin'
Another way, but would be expensive, buy mainshaft, countershaft and gear sets from acura (around $2200-2600), along with the differential and send them. Its cheaper to buy a used transmission.
Or, deal with it and take your trans apart, yank the shafts and diff and send them out.
You would save some money sending components you want treated, rather than adding all the extra weight with the shell. They charge by the weight, not to mention extra shipping charges you'd encounter shipping the whole thing.
I have a broken spare somewhere. It was an idea at some point, but it kinda got out of my system.
Having anyone cut new gears, I think could reach some crazy numbers, and besides, I dont know if any AM companies would do it
05-02-2012, 04:52 PM
#48
Team Owner
I mean a 13B usually survives at 450whp for about 70k and if a seal goes its a 1000$ reseal or a 1300-$2000 reman engine which isn't bad..the 20Bs are crazy but expensive and if I had an rx7 id probably go for the ls but for a swap the 13Bs are awesome and will fit and be lighter then almost any engine out there..and its pretty easy to get 450whp which isn't anything too crazy but still not bad
All it takes is one detonation event at that hp level and you've lost an apex seal. $1,000 might work if you did all the work yourself. Many people can't tune a piston engine around here or don't even monitor knock, a turbo rotory would last 20 miles around here.
05-02-2012, 04:54 PM
#49
Team Owner
The auto trans will hold over 400whp with only the addition of a Type F fluid and fresh pressure switches. Bert's car made 400 and change to the wheels with waaay over 100k on the trans. It started slipping once he installed the built motor but it's slipping. On the flip side, the manuals break at a slightly higher hp level. I've never seen an auto break, just clutch slippage. That can be cured if anyone ever designs a "shift kit" whether it's hydraulic or electronic.
05-02-2012, 08:07 PM
#50
Safety Car
The auto trans will hold over 400whp with only the addition of a Type F fluid and fresh pressure switches. Bert's car made 400 and change to the wheels with waaay over 100k on the trans. It started slipping once he installed the built motor but it's slipping. On the flip side, the manuals break at a slightly higher hp level. I've never seen an auto break, just clutch slippage. That can be cured if anyone ever designs a "shift kit" whether it's hydraulic or electronic.
in there. Plus I'm sure I've seen Anil make a few "I wish I got the 6mt" posts in my time on the forums lol.I'll have to do a quick search for some of those threads where the 5AT was discussed. Did anyone ever get around to finding a high stall converter?
05-02-2012, 08:55 PM
#51
Team Owner
Very true, IHC. Bert's car actually came to mind so that's why I dropped the in there. Plus I'm sure I've seen Anil make a few "I wish I got the 6mt" posts in my time on the forums lol.
I'll have to do a quick search for some of those threads where the 5AT was discussed. Did anyone ever get around to finding a high stall converter?
in there. Plus I'm sure I've seen Anil make a few "I wish I got the 6mt" posts in my time on the forums lol.I'll have to do a quick search for some of those threads where the 5AT was discussed. Did anyone ever get around to finding a high stall converter?
Stock for stock, the manual will take more power. With good fluid, there's some overlap in reliability between the auto and manual. Bert's was reliable at 400whp while some manuals have failed at that point but most have lived. The problem is the sample size is so small, not very many high hp auto TLs out there. The 6mt is the obvious choice for reliability but I wish there was some sort of R&D going on for the auto. I can get my hands on a spare to mess with but I don't have a turbo TL to use for testing and a lot of it is going to be trial and error. I really need to buy a service manual to get the electrical layout.
There's always the chance that the auto is physically stronger; less likely to have a hard parts breakage than the manual. That's a guess of course. Eventually we're going to have TLs pushing 600whp and the best (cheapest) option for reliability could potentially be a modded auto.
05-03-2012, 02:58 AM
#53
Check out this guys Turbo J32A2 Civic w/ AEM EMS and Odyssey auto trans. I tried contacting him about his custom trans controller, but he hasn't been active on youtube. He is a member on here (mhassett), but hasn't been logged on for over a year.
I think it's pretty neat what this guy has done. I don't how the Ody trans differs from the 3G TL 5AT, though.
I think it's pretty neat what this guy has done. I don't how the Ody trans differs from the 3G TL 5AT, though.
Last edited by gwiffer; 05-03-2012 at 03:02 AM.
05-03-2012, 07:06 AM
#54
Safety Car
@ IHC & Franchise1124
One important thing that has bugged me for a while now is the following. The Turbo 5AT could be set-up to handle more HP than even the 6MT.
The BIG BIG BIG problem with Rodney and Bert is that they fail to understand the difference between TO and HP. Tq is the amount of twisting force....... twisting.... as in BREAKING anything that is asked to transfer it to the pavement. Whereas, HP is power..... the ability to do work.
What all that means is this. STOP making all that boost come in too early and producing excessive Tq that the powertrain CAN'T handle. Furthermore, that excessive tq that early in the powerband is not worth it for the little that it helps acceleration.
That is, with our cars (weak powertrain), we must make compromises. Lose the battle but win the war sort of thing. Keep the peak tq at a reasonable level and make the tq sustain thru the higher rpm = much higher hp with lower peak tq.
The REAL secret is to use the radical Bisi cam to move the tq as high as possible in the rpm range = more hp with much less peak tq. This is how the Evo is able to produce 1000 HP. CAMSHAFT + Turbo = 5AT Win
One important thing that has bugged me for a while now is the following. The Turbo 5AT could be set-up to handle more HP than even the 6MT.
The BIG BIG BIG problem with Rodney and Bert is that they fail to understand the difference between TO and HP. Tq is the amount of twisting force....... twisting.... as in BREAKING anything that is asked to transfer it to the pavement. Whereas, HP is power..... the ability to do work.
What all that means is this. STOP making all that boost come in too early and producing excessive Tq that the powertrain CAN'T handle. Furthermore, that excessive tq that early in the powerband is not worth it for the little that it helps acceleration.
That is, with our cars (weak powertrain), we must make compromises. Lose the battle but win the war sort of thing. Keep the peak tq at a reasonable level and make the tq sustain thru the higher rpm = much higher hp with lower peak tq.
The REAL secret is to use the radical Bisi cam to move the tq as high as possible in the rpm range = more hp with much less peak tq. This is how the Evo is able to produce 1000 HP. CAMSHAFT + Turbo = 5AT Win
05-03-2012, 07:20 AM
#55
@ IHC & Franchise1124
One important thing that has bugged me for a while now is the following. The Turbo 5AT could be set-up to handle more HP than even the 6MT.
The BIG BIG BIG problem with Rodney and Bert is that they fail to understand the difference between TO and HP. Tq is the amount of twisting force....... twisting.... as in BREAKING anything that is asked to transfer it to the pavement. Whereas, HP is power..... the ability to do work.
What all that means is this. STOP making all that boost come in too early and producing excessive Tq that the powertrain CAN'T handle. Furthermore, that excessive tq that early in the powerband is not worth it for the little that it helps acceleration.
That is, with our cars (weak powertrain), we must make compromises. Lose the battle but win the war sort of thing. Keep the peak tq at a reasonable level and make the tq sustain thru the higher rpm = much higher hp with lower peak tq.
The REAL secret is to use the radical Bisi cam to move the tq as high as possible in the rpm range = more hp with much less peak tq. This is how the Evo is able to produce 1000 HP. CAMSHAFT + Turbo = 5AT Win
One important thing that has bugged me for a while now is the following. The Turbo 5AT could be set-up to handle more HP than even the 6MT.
The BIG BIG BIG problem with Rodney and Bert is that they fail to understand the difference between TO and HP. Tq is the amount of twisting force....... twisting.... as in BREAKING anything that is asked to transfer it to the pavement. Whereas, HP is power..... the ability to do work.
What all that means is this. STOP making all that boost come in too early and producing excessive Tq that the powertrain CAN'T handle. Furthermore, that excessive tq that early in the powerband is not worth it for the little that it helps acceleration.
That is, with our cars (weak powertrain), we must make compromises. Lose the battle but win the war sort of thing. Keep the peak tq at a reasonable level and make the tq sustain thru the higher rpm = much higher hp with lower peak tq.
The REAL secret is to use the radical Bisi cam to move the tq as high as possible in the rpm range = more hp with much less peak tq. This is how the Evo is able to produce 1000 HP. CAMSHAFT + Turbo = 5AT Win
With a lot of people, it's what it will do in the 1/4 so I would have thought it would have been tried at the track to shoot for that magical 60ft time but that never happened.
For me, the most I will do it have it dyno'd and even then, I don't really care what the numbers are. Curious yes, but not obsessed.
05-03-2012, 07:21 AM
#56
Team Owner
@ IHC & Franchise1124
One important thing that has bugged me for a while now is the following. The Turbo 5AT could be set-up to handle more HP than even the 6MT.
The BIG BIG BIG problem with Rodney and Bert is that they fail to understand the difference between TO and HP. Tq is the amount of twisting force....... twisting.... as in BREAKING anything that is asked to transfer it to the pavement. Whereas, HP is power..... the ability to do work.
What all that means is this. STOP making all that boost come in too early and producing excessive Tq that the powertrain CAN'T handle. Furthermore, that excessive tq that early in the powerband is not worth it for the little that it helps acceleration.
That is, with our cars (weak powertrain), we must make compromises. Lose the battle but win the war sort of thing. Keep the peak tq at a reasonable level and make the tq sustain thru the higher rpm = much higher hp with lower peak tq.
The REAL secret is to use the radical Bisi cam to move the tq as high as possible in the rpm range = more hp with much less peak tq. This is how the Evo is able to produce 1000 HP. CAMSHAFT + Turbo = 5AT Win
One important thing that has bugged me for a while now is the following. The Turbo 5AT could be set-up to handle more HP than even the 6MT.
The BIG BIG BIG problem with Rodney and Bert is that they fail to understand the difference between TO and HP. Tq is the amount of twisting force....... twisting.... as in BREAKING anything that is asked to transfer it to the pavement. Whereas, HP is power..... the ability to do work.
What all that means is this. STOP making all that boost come in too early and producing excessive Tq that the powertrain CAN'T handle. Furthermore, that excessive tq that early in the powerband is not worth it for the little that it helps acceleration.
That is, with our cars (weak powertrain), we must make compromises. Lose the battle but win the war sort of thing. Keep the peak tq at a reasonable level and make the tq sustain thru the higher rpm = much higher hp with lower peak tq.
The REAL secret is to use the radical Bisi cam to move the tq as high as possible in the rpm range = more hp with much less peak tq. This is how the Evo is able to produce 1000 HP. CAMSHAFT + Turbo = 5AT Win
05-03-2012, 08:01 AM
#58
Safety Car
Very interesting points @ Inaccurate, IHC, and KN_TL. I really hope someone gets around to making this happen. Aside from Bert, were there any other turbo builds on a 5AT?
KN I'm not familiar with your build so if you have a thread, please link it here
KN I'm not familiar with your build so if you have a thread, please link it here
05-03-2012, 08:06 AM
#59
Safety Car
The very first 5AT to have the J&R kit was the OP of the famous turbo thread, "banelba". Sadly, his 5AT trans died very quickly after getting the turbo. And obviously, this was before discovering that Type F ATF could be used to help the holding power.
Last edited by Inaccurate; 05-03-2012 at 08:08 AM.
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Franchise1124 (05-03-2012)
05-03-2012, 08:43 AM
#61
Safety Car
Please clarify. There are a lot of ways to take that... 
1) didn't know that Rodney discovered using the Type F.
2) really didn't know that the OP had a turbo built by Rodney
3) Rodney *didn't* break his trans !!!!
4) Inacc, you're wrong buddy... that wasn't a turbo built by Rodney !!!
1) didn't know that Rodney discovered using the Type F.
2) really didn't know that the OP had a turbo built by Rodney
3) Rodney *didn't* break his trans !!!!
4) Inacc, you're wrong buddy... that wasn't a turbo built by Rodney !!!
05-03-2012, 08:52 AM
#64
please clarify. There are a lot of ways to take that...
1) didn't know that rodney discovered using the type f.
2) really didn't know that the op had a turbo built by rodney
3) rodney *didn't* break his trans !!!!
4) inacc, you're wrong buddy... That wasn't a turbo built by rodney !!!
1) didn't know that rodney discovered using the type f.
2) really didn't know that the op had a turbo built by rodney
3) rodney *didn't* break his trans !!!!
4) inacc, you're wrong buddy... That wasn't a turbo built by rodney !!!
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Inaccurate (05-03-2012)
05-03-2012, 09:14 AM
#65
Team Owner
05-04-2012, 09:53 PM
#67
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Inaccurate (05-04-2012)
05-14-2012, 10:05 PM
#68
Racer
and i do see the price hitting 50k, which is not too hard nowadays considering some models are at 40k around my way and with that motor they could simply get an extra 10k from enthusiast.
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