Hey guys- I apologize if this might be a repost but when I tried searching, all I can find is getting the type-s to 300 hp, which is pretty easy cuz it's only 15hp away. But the base TL is a little more then 40hp away from the mark, and I was hoping what bolt on and mod can be done to achieve this goal? I've got my AEM V2 CAI intake, I know I'll need a jpipe (any suggestions on the best performing on? ATLP?) and I'm looking at the tanabe exhaust system, but do I need anything else to hit 300?

 

At the crank or at the wheel?

 

At the crank? At the wheel? I'm not sure what is the difference. Also, I know alot of ppl will say get turbo or suprcharge, but I won't do it if I don't need to.

 

Hmmm this title sounds misleading. Can a mod change the title to "how do you get 300 hp for base tl" instead what is present. Thanx.

 

wheel hp will be a percentage less due to drivetrain loss.

crank hp will be higher as there is no drivetrain loss.

not sure on tl's, but usually automatics generally lose around 20% to the wheels off flywheel numbers. i am use to rwd car figures though, im out of my realm in fwd stuff still.

ie; 100 hp flywheel is 80 wheel hp.

 

HP and WHP are different.

Just like 07lightning said, WHP is basically after the drivetrain loss which is really the most accurate reading of what your car goes.

Now for the TL, the drivetrain loss varies, but should be near a 20% loss. (Can vary because of temperature, types of dynos, etc...)

You are really always looking for a WHP gain, not a Crank HP gain.

The RV6 V3 J-pipe adds 12-15 WHP, essentially, almost 20 crank HP.

If you're new with cars, carbibles.com explains a lot of basic terminology with cars and understanding of them.

 

Auto or manual?
Crank or wheel hp?

The hp advertised is the crank hp.. which is 270.

To the wheels, after loss through the drivetrain, we get I believe between 230-240 whp (saw a dyno somewhere....).

So to get it over 300 whp (which is what you feel), you'll need pre-cat deletes, j-pipe, test pipe, catback exhaust, intake, pulley, and tb spacer. Even with all this, I believe you are just shy of 300 (290-300). someone correct me if im wrong but i believe these are #s I have seen before.

OR

you can just get a CT supercharger paired with an exhaust.

 

^^ i highly doubt, actually I know the Base TL will not make 290 whp with just bolt ons. Staying NA the 3rd gen TL with all the bolt ons spacer, etc will see about 270 WHP. the only way to get any more than that is to get engine(aggressive cams, etc) & head work done with an increased CR to 11:1.

 

Now i've only seen one 3rd gen tl on this forum get up to 290 whp and his was a type-s. i forget his username but he had all the bolt ons, and made very close to 300 whp. he sold and parted his car then but if anyone remembers he had a black tl-s with yellow laminx headlight tint.

ur best bet if this is ur daily driver is to go supercharger imho. turbo=weekend warrior, supercharger=daily driver.

just think about it bud getting 70-80 whp from just bolt ons is ridiculously high hopes, those number resemble the comptech supercharger numbers @4psi.

 

wow, so i guess my best bet is supercharging it, or put a turbo? wow, didn't really want to go that route because I heard alot of maintenance must be done to keep the car in shape, I guess putting it on a dyno every 3 months or something (my friend told me, he works for a bently dealer). but if i put a turbo, will it make may engine wear down faster? I heard supercharger will always stay on while turbo is turned on a somepoint,is this true?

 

Sorry, 3rd gen engine compression is already at 11:1.

 

With a supercharger, you get instant boost because it uses a pulley system that runs with the engine. Turbos rely on exhaust gases to make boost, however they are the most efficient means of making additional horsepower via forced induction because they use exhaust gases. A super charger uses some engine horsepower to spin. You can make the most power with a turbo. Just make sure the bottum end of the engine is strong enough if your going to run forced induction.

 

which one is cheaper? supercharge or turbo

 

I believe the super charger is the cheaper route.

 

Bayam0n, I suggest you read the various supercharger threads going on right now.
It's a lot of work. You said, it isn't for you if you have to maintain it.....Some of these super charger guys are having LOTS of trouble. for example, tuning, fabricating, and getting it to work just right.
Honestly, if you have to ask all of these questions.....I don't think F/I is for you.

 

F/I?

yeah, i really don't want to turbo or supercharge it. I guess I'm just going to have to do it with bolt ons. thnx

 

I made 294whp on a TL-S 5AT... and i had every single possible bolt-on available

ATLP Exhaust
ATLP J-Pipe
ATLP HFC
AEM Cold air Intake
RV6 Pre Cat Deletes
UR Ultra Sc Pulley
P2R TB Spacer
OE IM Gaskets
Innovative 60A Engine Mounts


300whp, N/A is probably only possible on a 6MT TL-S

 

Forced Induction. (supercharger, turbocharger)

 

uuuuh go buy a beemer

 

If you do away with the throttlebody spacer, you should have 300 whp in that Type-S considering I lost almost 5 whp installing that piece on my car with the thermal gaskets. Gas mileage went down too.

 

This whole thread got siderailed! Dont get me wrong I love reading this stuff and its all good info but the OP (orginal poster) question was talking more to Crank HP/Advertised HP. He stated 270HP for the Base TL so he is only looking to bump it up 30HP at the Crank which is more than easy to do with bolt on's. I see that most people with a full list of bolt on's are turning 255 to 270 at the wheel on a Base TL so that converts into 301 to 324HP at the Crank or more with a 6MT. Hope this help Bayamon.

 

He was confused of the terms, and at the crank we have 258. not 270.
I also don't think he has a 6MT.

 

Dave, blackura has sold his car. he now has an 09.

 

my mistake. however that point is NA 3rd gen tl base cannot make more than 270 whp WITHOUT headwork/engine work.

 

no someone is talking some sense. i agree with this post

 

Sorry, you are mistaken.
from this thread.
https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-performance-parts-modifications-112/ported-intake-runners-744157/

Also if you lookup the specs of the 3rd gen TL it will say the CR of 11:1

you've edited to correct the mistake!

 

My post about gas mileage and horsepower loss with the spacer applies to anyone here. If it helps somebody, great.

 

Thanks, I will not get the TB spacer =)

 

i understand i am mistaken and the reason i didn't edit it cause i couldn't cause it didn't let me edit due to the 5 minute editing rule.
so drop it, i've claimed i was mistaken. now lets get back to the topic at hand

 

what does edited to correct the mistake mean!?
I saw your edit, acknowledged your edit and accepted your edit. =)

 

yeah TB spacer is only really necessary or beneficial in a F/I setup. NA the TB spacer can have negative effects, however i have TB spacer on my 6mt j-series and it has only given me positive gains.

 

nm. just ur right i was mistaken the 3rd gen tl has 11:1 CR. i was thinking the 3rd gen tl had less because my j36 build(using the j32a4 3rd gen tl block) is running a 10.5:1 CR, but i remembered that im going twin/single turbo that explains why i needed a lower CR.

 

You might want to rephrase that. We also have a J-series engine.(3rd gen TL)
IF i threw on a TB spacer on my 6mt J-series i will have negative gains.

 

Is it noticable when driving (butt dyno) or only shows up on paper cause when i installed my TB spacer i didnt notice any positve or negative effects.

 

no i will not rephrase because i would just be lying. just cause one individual has lost power due to the tb spacer doesn't mean everyone will. u cannot believe everything u read on the internet, i've personally know that i got gains cause i am sponsored by P2R and have done a before/after dyno(not done by P2R) and i got about the gains p2R expected. fyi i have the same engine in my car as u just built to its full potential

so before u start saying im wrong get the part first and do a before/after DYNO!!! cause i have experience and know.

 

Post up your dyno.

There have been multiple threads about the TB spacer, with POSTED dynos showing it with negative gains for a 3G TL.
the dyno was with the spacer and nothing else.
Here's the thread....
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...le+body+spacer

 

true but u got to remember that point of TB spacer is REALLY in a nutshell made to reduce heatsoak. so it would really shine in keep HP consistant/gain when running a car for a extended period of time.

 

Wow this is getting a little heated! So do either one of you agree with Dave W that you see negative MPG results with the Spacer?? I bought one but have yet to install it due to concerns of lossing fuel economy for little HP gain.

Thanks....lets all just get along hey :-))

 

gotcha again! =)

 

that was sooooo long ago, the tb spacer was my first mod with my CAI. i don't have it anymore. i was a skeptic at first too, so i just had a friend of mine run my car on his garage dyno, and i got like a 1-2hp gain(granted it is not the 4whp gain that p2R expected). i just wanted to know that my 60-80 dollars spent on the spacer wasn't a waste. but really this tb spacer is really made for f/I setups