I hate cars

My work is having a track day in a month or so. Some co-workers in their Porsches and 3rd gen F-bodies are very cocky so I would like to do well.

My mods are A-spec springs, Koni Yellows, Progress RSB, 255/40/17 G-force Sports, and I will be taking the subs out.

I wish I still had the KDWs on the car as the Sports will be somewhat limiting.

I'm changing the oil to Redline straight 40wt just for the day for a little extra protection along with fresh Amsoil ATD in the trans and it already has a cooler.

I have a feeling the brakes will give up long before I have a chance to overheat the engine or trans.

This will be the only time it will go to the track for a very long time so I will have to expriment with tire pressures once I'm out there. I've also got the swaybar to adjust for fine tuning but with the way it's balanced now, I have a feeling I'm going to keep it in the street setting.

Any free/cheap tricks to get a little extra out of the car?

Last, anyone else run out there so I can have an idea of what kind of times to expect?

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

When I went to Streets/Horsethief, one thing I highly recommend is changing out the brake fluid to Motul RBF600. The TL is very nose heavy and if you late brake a few times, the fluid start to cook easily making the rest of the run pretty dull as you will be very handicapped with useless brakes.

As long as you're consistent with taking the right lines, the TL is pretty competent with other cars. It likes to dive pretty easily, and my personal preference to remedy that was to have the pressures in the back a bit higher. Fronts cold were 31psi, rears about 2-3 psi more. This helped rotate the car a bit easier, and if the rear gives out, it's pretty easy to correct once you feel it. Just punch the gas.

If you really want to make the most out of the free mods, take out the rear seats.

By nature, the TL would seem like it's a torque car due to the V6 and 260hp, but because it's a fwd and not exactly light, I would treat it as a momentum car at willow springs. Keep it in 3-4th, and try not to switch between the gears a lot, as the TL is EASILY disturbed and the front wants to dive with any given reason. So I found it best to stay in a higher gear and working with the momentum as the traction there wasn't to sensitive to throttle input.

The TL seats don't hold you in the best, but if you want a bit more control you can get a seat belt lock.
http://www.ricks2k.com/products/cglock.php

There is another trick where you can just use your stock seat belt locking mechanism to hold you in place, but it's not as safe.

Hope this helps! What group you running with?

I hate cars

Thank you so much for the help!

I don't have details yet, just a sign up sheet and an approximate date.

What suspension mods do you have?

Right now on the street, steady state cornering has just a little understeer but lifting off the throttle even a little will make the rear rotate. I just bought the A-spec and won't have it for a week or so, so things are bound to change. Hopefully I can get some time behind the wheel on a deserted road before Willow.

What kind of speeds do you hit at that track? My car understeers more at slow speeds and gets more neutral as speeds increase. If it's a slow speed track, I may put the RSB in the "track" setting.

Nice tip on the brake fluid. Is that mail order only?

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Suspension at the last track event was a stock RSB (6MT).
Ground Control 726lbs/inch front coils and 447lbs/inch rear coils.
Koni Yellows re-valved for custom rates.
Racing Brake 2-piece Rotors w/Hawk HPS Pads.
Motul 600RBF brake fluid.

Depending on which track you go to, most likely Streets of Willow, the average speed is about 90-100 on the straights, and 40-50 the rest of the course.

The A-spec suspension should definitely help firm up the ride a bit while reducing a bit of understeer. Try that out first before adjusting the RSB.

For the fluid, you can check if any specialized racing stores carry it. If not shoot me a PM I have a few in stock.

Bearcat94

I've been saying this for a year (since the couple of Auto-X's I ran last spring) and people keep telling me I've got it backwards.

Glad to get some indirect support on my choice.


I also hope to have a track day soon - I Hate Cars, do you think the one-time upgraded oil is necessary or is it probably over-kill but good for piece of mind?


RE: Brake Fluid. Amsoil makes some DOT3 and DOT4 that is best in class temp wise. The DOT3 is better than some "mass market" DOT4 fluids and the Amsoil DOT4 is nearly the dry boiling point of the MOTUL RBF. Adding slotted front rotors and RB ET500 pads, plus the Amsoil fluid to (hopefully) improve braking for the day.

Was also considering un-boting the stock cat-back exhaust for the day. Good idea or not?



.

I hate cars

Oil upgrade definately unnecessary as I'm already running a straight 30wt diesel oil. It will however keep me from having a heart attack pushing my daily driver to the limit for 10 minutes at a time, something I said I would never do again.

I had DOT 5.1 in the car already. After the wreck, I saw DOT 3 listed on the parts list.... I really like the thinner DOT 5.1 as it seems like the ABS will let it get closer to the "edge" of traction. Not so conservative.

I fully plan on pulling the ABS fuse for a few laps also and posting times compared to with ABS.

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

As long as you're not running on old oil, you will be fine. I usually change my oil about 2-3 weeks prior if I know I have a track day coming up. On track day, I over-fill up about half a quart just to reduce any pump starvation during long sweepers, although I'm pretty sure we won't have any problems.

For the tire pressure, it's purely opinion. I just feel the TL is very nose heavy, thus I relocated my battery to the rear, lightened up the rear, and increase a bit of psi. Makes it a bit more prone to the rear giving out, but it's pretty predictable.

If you don't have an exhaust, definitely would be beneficial to run without one of the mufflers. On the track, with a helmet on, it's a bit harder to hear your engine and checking the rpm gauge just isn't on the list of things to do when your in mid-turn of a chicane.

I also always turn of traction control. I feel it's very unpredictable as to when it comes on. Plus the driver knows when they are at their limits, not a computer.

I still recommend the fluid/pads combo as a priority. If your into the turn a few times too hot, the rest of your run you'll just be babysitting your fluid.

csmeance

make sure the front suspension is ready to handle the stress since you don't want your wheel falling off again!!!!

Take out the rear seats, trunk trim, glovebox and the center console. Spare tire, leave it on the sidelines! Check your tires before you go and make sure that nothing is blocking the grille so you car can adequately cool!

also some track times for the TL-S

stillhere153

iTrader: (1)

any plans to mount a camer inside the cabin so we can all enjoy it?

Bearcat94

I thought the rear seat was an integral part of the rear support?

I hate cars

Very good idea. I'll take one from work.

Assuming equal drivers, how do you think a TL with my mods will do against a Cayman?

I hate cars

The brace behind it is. I wouldn't think of removing that.

Once the a-spec is installed I might suck it up and remove my subs to get a feel for how the car is going to feel on the track.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Assuming equal drivers Cayman > TL + mods.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Tires are the #1 most important thing at the track. Brakes/brake fluid come in a close 2nd. I definetely felt my brakes fade when I tracked.

Bearcat94

Stock Brembo's?

01tl4tl

in car camera mount to passenger seat $50 http://www.cruisecam.com/mounts.html

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

Made one myself like that, but seat vibrates a good bit when on the track. Better if you can find a solid mounting point to the chassis. Also, tape a piece of foam over the microphone. You're going to get a lot of wind noise.

01tl4tl

driving tip to practice
Left foot braking
You will need this skill to keep the gas planted and use the brakes to set the nose,,then it will turn into the corner while keeping the rpm where you want it

go slow and learn the line as the instructor helps you find the marks and points on track
Smooth makes for speed later

01tl4tl

spend some time in the car with a helmet on- check the visabilty around the interior mirror, is it blocking a huge amount of space you need to see the apex?
see how it is getting in and out of the car with the helmet on to, seat height will have to be changed--headrest position etc
It will prepare you mentally for the track and get used to helmet feel

01tl4tl

Practice putting each front tire directly on a raised dot in the road, know exactly where the corners of the car are- so you can put the tire where it needs to be each lap and each corner
and not be afraid of tearing the fenders off on a guardrail or being close in a passing situation
You know where the car ends

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

Yes?!

I hate cars

Will I be able to use my drag racing helmet on the road course or are they different?

Thanks a lot for the advice.

I'm doing little things here and there.

Got the DOT 5.1 back in the brakes. Not only does it boil higher than most, but it feels like it lets the ABS get closer to the "edge" instead of being so conservative.

Ordered the urethane (polygraphite) front swaybar bushings to make the factory bar more effective and to hopefully eliminate the clunk from the front end.

I'm increadibly close to getting some tires for this event but it comes back to the fact that my brakes are probably going to put an end to the fun before anything else.

Normally I'm not nervous but I absolutely will not get beat by one guy in particular and if it means running on slicks I will do it.

princelybug

iTrader: (16)

I believe the helmets have to be Snell 2005, Snell 2000, or Snell '95 certified. I'm not sure which.

04accordcpe

iTrader: (3)

it was snell 95, but i think minimum now is snell 2000.

i hate cars, what day are you going to willow? did you already register? ive been dying to take my car there and just recently put in a rotora bbk kit and some brand spanking new BFGoodrich KDW2's

01tl4tl

check the tracks website- it will have a section on track day- with a printable checklist of mechanical inspection that you do beforehand- you certify the brakes are good- bolts tight- no leaks etc and get a tech inspection sticker for the windshield when you check in.
NO cars allowed on track without one, there will be someone checking your wristband for correct group on course, and approved car at track entry
Would you believe some people try to sneak in! and you dont want noobs and experts on course together at school

If a car club is helping put on the school for you- contact them direct for helmet requirements--its got to be an insurance issue

Most will allow a DOT motorcycle helmet with 2000 or newer sticker
3/4 or full face helmets only- no shorty beanie skid lids ~

Snell MA2000 -motorcycle, and Snell2000 SA Special application- race cars, are the standard at my track but they allow DOT helmets for bikes in the car
Its just track day,, so they look at the 10 year old rule on helmet age/material deterioration and set the last standard as the min, same thing the race clubs do,

There is no roll cage in your street car, so the design of the SA helmet doesnt come into play in an accident- you are not going to repeatedly hit your head sideways against anything solid, thats what makes them different than bike helmets-- which take a hit to the forehead and top more often, so they have different construction inside

How is the viewport size on your drag helmet? some are pretty small and you want decent peripheral
Most tracks will rent helmets for $25-30 for the day, not all of us have a helmet or 2 at home~ Wear a head bandana and bring lysol- for your protection.
Your head gets hot and sweaty-greasy and all that gets in the liner-think the last person bothered to keep their sweat to themself ??(think lice-and lysol) yuk

Some tracks will rent transponders and do actual timing--dont tell your insurance! as that changes it from a `driving school` where your car is covered, to a `timed competition event`~
but you are in the noob group so have someone with a stopwatch time you from the pits,,can give a thumbs up or down reflecting your time that lap,,that really makes you feel like a race driver- crew giving you signals
the number isnt important while you are driving- only going quicker next lap- 100 prm more out of that corner, 10 feet later braking point at the end of the straight...

pffpffpass

iTrader: (2)

Wow these are some great tips..

Nice posts..

Tripnbeats

[QUOTE=aznbo187;10530938]one thing I highly recommend is changing out the brake fluid to Motul RBF600. QUOTE]


is that the best to get???

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

[QUOTE=Tripnbeats;10598741]I'm sure there are "better", but it's not really what is best, but more to what works. Motul and ATE is something that a lot of weekend drivers use because the fluid is good for 6 months to a year. With more aggressive (high boiling point) brake fluids, usually they need to be changed more frequently. Motul and ATE are both more than enough to maintain a reasonable fluid temperature.

01tl4tl

If you get the fluid that hot you have more problems than what brand

01tl4tl

I encourage everyone to find their local track and go to a track day,, or several
Anyone who is allowed to drive your car should also go, some places have ladies day and couples day with ladies only run groups, so they dont feel the pressure of men wearing helmets--we become power mad.... with a throttle!!
Oddly, the ladies only groups are often faster than the men!

Many car clubs rent tracks for a day and invite other car makes,,it cuts down the expense when more drivers are there
figure 250$ for a full day,,deals can be found, and after you go several times and are moved into the advanced group- you can show up at lunch and pay for half day.
Many drivers wear themself out in the morning and dont even go on course in the afternoon!!!
Check the track website for clubs on the useage schedule and links
Call the track- they are happy to have more people get educated
The road you share may be mine~ rip James Dean

01tl4tl

tip: bring 91 octane gas in 2, 5 gallon cans,,track gas is at least a dollar per gallon more than at the regular station
The car will go thru ~a lot~ of gas if you are having fun, refill after each session
It likes to have about 3/4 tank to almost full for good balance
Running out on course is embarressing and causes problems for other drivers

If you are not running SC or turbo then 91 is all you need

I hate cars can give detailed info on octane needs and SC to anyone interested in the physics of detonation within increased atmospheric pressure environment

I hate cars

I've already got a 5 gallon drum of 100 unleaded for just a couple extra octane points. Mine will already ping a little so it's more for protection than power. I'll probably just use 2.5 gallons for a full tank of gas for a small boost. But you're right, if it doesn't ping, no need for higher octane.

On the subject of brakes, I have a feeling that once you get into the good brake fluids, the pads are going to fade before the pedal sinks to the floor from boiling brake fluid. I know it's retarded to not replace my stock pads but I wanted to make it over 100,000 miles on the stock brakes for bragging rights.

I hate cars

And just for fun I'm going to reset the fuel mileage and see if I can get it below 10mpg.

01tl4tl

you're not seriously going out on old stock pads?
they will be gone in 2 sessions

Get a set of dedicated track pads if you want the stockers to last
Some et500 or hawk will do for the first time, but not stock with age on them

As pads lose depth they lose abilty to shed heat--boiling the pad will happen before the brake fluid
I would never approve a TL with stock pads unless they were new

TLdriver022

And most Porsche owners dont leave their cars stock for very long. I have been to the track with my 05 TL and I can tell you from experience Caymans are extremely fast with small mods done to them.

01tl4tl

thought about seafoam the intake and TB before track day?
- get rid of the carbon and crud buildup so you get best combustion -that will take care of your ping in most cases

I hate cars

I know, I know. When race day gets closer I will probably throw some pads on there out of fear.

The biggest problem I've found with this car is the rotors. They temporarily warp when extremely hot so bad the the entire car shakes and rattles terribly. I think a rotor upgrade (stock size) is necessary too.

Bearcat94

Regards Helmets:

Track day here this week-end requires (for the noob/DE group) SA2000 or MA2000.

Solo and Advanced Solo = SA2000

greco9885

iTrader: (1)

my friends 996TT gained a CRAZY amount from just a simple ECU tune(race gas, not pump), new filters, and adjusting the turbos, 545WHP. compared to the stock 480 at the crank i believe

aznbo187

iTrader: (1)

You know what? I actually don't go through the whole tank in a days event. I'll fill up to full in the morning, and by the time the last session is over at 5PM, it's almost time for the gas light to go on. I don't drive conservative by any means, but I guess this is also very track dependent.