EGR block off
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Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
hmm are you sure about this? i havent heard that. either way its keeping exhuast from the intake which will cut down the intake temp especially in the summer. Should be good be a good combo with the mugen cooling mods I think.
egr = bad.... only good it does it control emissions. but wats the point if u got pre cat deletes and test pipes im interested in a block off plate. prolly could trick the o2 sensors to get rid of the cel no?
you will get a CEL...
the guys on the legend boards that are OBD-I have seen improvements on power with a slight hit on MPG... but on a 1G TL with the same engine i get a CEL when i try this because of the OBD II setup... still haven't figured a work-around yet... too lazy...
the guys on the legend boards that are OBD-I have seen improvements on power with a slight hit on MPG... but on a 1G TL with the same engine i get a CEL when i try this because of the OBD II setup... still haven't figured a work-around yet... too lazy...
Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
you will get a CEL...
the guys on the legend boards that are OBD-I have seen improvements on power with a slight hit on MPG... but on a 1G TL with the same engine i get a CEL when i try this because of the OBD II setup... still haven't figured a work-around yet... too lazy...
the guys on the legend boards that are OBD-I have seen improvements on power with a slight hit on MPG... but on a 1G TL with the same engine i get a CEL when i try this because of the OBD II setup... still haven't figured a work-around yet... too lazy...
couldn't tell you exactly... i know that on older cars, usually CEL will cause you to have bad MPG because the engine is efficient on the A/F ratio... not really sure if this happens on the newer ones...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 1,175
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From: Northern VA
Seriously, don't mess with this. The theory about intake temp is a nice one, but if it drops it more than 10°, tops, I will eat the intake manifold for lunch with a nice balsamic vinegarette.
EGR= Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is done for a couple of reasons-
1. Exhaust gases in the intake charge help to reduce peak cylinder temperature, reducing the formation of NOx emissions (oxides of Nitrogen- NO, NO2, etc). These are key components of smog, and the higher the engine compression, the more likely they are to occur. The TL engine is at 11:1, which is pretty high. If the engine is producing more NOx, the catalytics work harder (read hotter) to kill it (although tailpipe emissions will still go up), which ultimately shortens their life.
Also, a nice side effect of lower combustion temps- less pinging. An 11:1 engine, particularly one with mild cam timing, can ping like a MF'er on all but the best pump gas. EGR goes a long way to prevent that, because the exhaust gas mixing slows the burn rate.
2. Exhaust gases help to fill up the cylinder, therefore less space is required for the intake charge. This is where you pick up the MPG- it's worth probably 0.5-1mpg on our cars, maybe even 2 at highway cruising, but that might be generous.
EGR is a light-throttle only emissions control device. Importantly, EGR messes with the intake charge too much under heavy throttle, which can lead to poor charge control, etc, so the ECU shuts it down under heavy throttle. For max power, you want the cylinder filled with fresh air to the greatest extent possible, which gives you max burn-> max cylinder pressure-> max power.
Still want to mess with it?
EGR= Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is done for a couple of reasons-
1. Exhaust gases in the intake charge help to reduce peak cylinder temperature, reducing the formation of NOx emissions (oxides of Nitrogen- NO, NO2, etc). These are key components of smog, and the higher the engine compression, the more likely they are to occur. The TL engine is at 11:1, which is pretty high. If the engine is producing more NOx, the catalytics work harder (read hotter) to kill it (although tailpipe emissions will still go up), which ultimately shortens their life.
Also, a nice side effect of lower combustion temps- less pinging. An 11:1 engine, particularly one with mild cam timing, can ping like a MF'er on all but the best pump gas. EGR goes a long way to prevent that, because the exhaust gas mixing slows the burn rate.
2. Exhaust gases help to fill up the cylinder, therefore less space is required for the intake charge. This is where you pick up the MPG- it's worth probably 0.5-1mpg on our cars, maybe even 2 at highway cruising, but that might be generous.
EGR is a light-throttle only emissions control device. Importantly, EGR messes with the intake charge too much under heavy throttle, which can lead to poor charge control, etc, so the ECU shuts it down under heavy throttle. For max power, you want the cylinder filled with fresh air to the greatest extent possible, which gives you max burn-> max cylinder pressure-> max power.
Still want to mess with it?
Thread Starter
Banned
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,019
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From: Frederick, Maryland
Seriously, don't mess with this. The theory about intake temp is a nice one, but if it drops it more than 10°, tops, I will eat the intake manifold for lunch with a nice balsamic vinegarette.
EGR= Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is done for a couple of reasons-
1. Exhaust gases in the intake charge help to reduce peak cylinder temperature, reducing the formation of NOx emissions (oxides of Nitrogen- NO, NO2, etc). These are key components of smog, and the higher the engine compression, the more likely they are to occur. The TL engine is at 11:1, which is pretty high. If the engine is producing more NOx, the catalytics work harder (read hotter) to kill it (although tailpipe emissions will still go up), which ultimately shortens their life.
Also, a nice side effect of lower combustion temps- less pinging. An 11:1 engine, particularly one with mild cam timing, can ping like a MF'er on all but the best pump gas. EGR goes a long way to prevent that, because the exhaust gas mixing slows the burn rate.
2. Exhaust gases help to fill up the cylinder, therefore less space is required for the intake charge. This is where you pick up the MPG- it's worth probably 0.5-1mpg on our cars, maybe even 2 at highway cruising, but that might be generous.
EGR is a light-throttle only emissions control device. Importantly, EGR messes with the intake charge too much under heavy throttle, which can lead to poor charge control, etc, so the ECU shuts it down under heavy throttle. For max power, you want the cylinder filled with fresh air to the greatest extent possible, which gives you max burn-> max cylinder pressure-> max power.
Still want to mess with it?
EGR= Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is done for a couple of reasons-
1. Exhaust gases in the intake charge help to reduce peak cylinder temperature, reducing the formation of NOx emissions (oxides of Nitrogen- NO, NO2, etc). These are key components of smog, and the higher the engine compression, the more likely they are to occur. The TL engine is at 11:1, which is pretty high. If the engine is producing more NOx, the catalytics work harder (read hotter) to kill it (although tailpipe emissions will still go up), which ultimately shortens their life.
Also, a nice side effect of lower combustion temps- less pinging. An 11:1 engine, particularly one with mild cam timing, can ping like a MF'er on all but the best pump gas. EGR goes a long way to prevent that, because the exhaust gas mixing slows the burn rate.
2. Exhaust gases help to fill up the cylinder, therefore less space is required for the intake charge. This is where you pick up the MPG- it's worth probably 0.5-1mpg on our cars, maybe even 2 at highway cruising, but that might be generous.
EGR is a light-throttle only emissions control device. Importantly, EGR messes with the intake charge too much under heavy throttle, which can lead to poor charge control, etc, so the ECU shuts it down under heavy throttle. For max power, you want the cylinder filled with fresh air to the greatest extent possible, which gives you max burn-> max cylinder pressure-> max power.
Still want to mess with it?
apparently from what ive learned theres no real way to get rid of a egr now a days especially obd2 because the ecu looks for readings/signals from all o2 sensors to make sure its doin its job and from the egr it self. it could be different for some cars. maybe if there was a ecu program that can bypass the egr cel we would be fine.
Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
apparently from what ive learned theres no real way to get rid of a egr now a days especially obd2 because the ecu looks for readings/signals from all o2 sensors to make sure its doin its job and from the egr it self. it could be different for some cars. maybe if there was a ecu program that can bypass the egr cel we would be fine.
Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
what if you could remove the connector ontop of the EGR so that you could still remove the EGR but leave the connectot on top of it plugged into the harness so that whatever resister thats in it will still send the singal the the ECU that its still there. I'm pretty sure the ECU wont know that its physically not there so long as its getting a signal back from that connector.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,308
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From: Texas
As I recall the sensor just monitors valve movement so technically just put the plate in the the original EGR with sensor back on top and it should work fine. Worked for my obd1 cars I dunno how well it would work on obd2 vehicles.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 278
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From: Edmonton alberta
what if you could remove the connector ontop of the EGR so that you could still remove the EGR but leave the connectot on top of it plugged into the harness so that whatever resister thats in it will still send the singal the the ECU that its still there. I'm pretty sure the ECU wont know that its physically not there so long as its getting a signal back from that connector.
Well the OBD2 computers are too smart for that. when the PCM commands EGR operation, it needs a signal back from the EGR valve. and the PCM is also looking at the MAP sensor voltage to react. it will be expecting the MAP voltage to go up from the exhaust gas that is being introduced to the manifold.
removing the EGR will do more damage then good to it. like T HO already said. the exhaust gas will lower combustion temp and reduce the chance of detonation/pre-ignition
Last edited by hata_61; Mar 28, 2009 at 03:33 AM.
Seriously, don't mess with this. The theory about intake temp is a nice one, but if it drops it more than 10°, tops, I will eat the intake manifold for lunch with a nice balsamic vinegarette.
EGR= Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is done for a couple of reasons-
1. Exhaust gases in the intake charge help to reduce peak cylinder temperature, reducing the formation of NOx emissions (oxides of Nitrogen- NO, NO2, etc). These are key components of smog, and the higher the engine compression, the more likely they are to occur. The TL engine is at 11:1, which is pretty high. If the engine is producing more NOx, the catalytics work harder (read hotter) to kill it (although tailpipe emissions will still go up), which ultimately shortens their life.
Also, a nice side effect of lower combustion temps- less pinging. An 11:1 engine, particularly one with mild cam timing, can ping like a MF'er on all but the best pump gas. EGR goes a long way to prevent that, because the exhaust gas mixing slows the burn rate.
2. Exhaust gases help to fill up the cylinder, therefore less space is required for the intake charge. This is where you pick up the MPG- it's worth probably 0.5-1mpg on our cars, maybe even 2 at highway cruising, but that might be generous.
EGR is a light-throttle only emissions control device. Importantly, EGR messes with the intake charge too much under heavy throttle, which can lead to poor charge control, etc, so the ECU shuts it down under heavy throttle. For max power, you want the cylinder filled with fresh air to the greatest extent possible, which gives you max burn-> max cylinder pressure-> max power.
Still want to mess with it?
EGR= Exhaust Gas Recirculation. This is done for a couple of reasons-
1. Exhaust gases in the intake charge help to reduce peak cylinder temperature, reducing the formation of NOx emissions (oxides of Nitrogen- NO, NO2, etc). These are key components of smog, and the higher the engine compression, the more likely they are to occur. The TL engine is at 11:1, which is pretty high. If the engine is producing more NOx, the catalytics work harder (read hotter) to kill it (although tailpipe emissions will still go up), which ultimately shortens their life.
Also, a nice side effect of lower combustion temps- less pinging. An 11:1 engine, particularly one with mild cam timing, can ping like a MF'er on all but the best pump gas. EGR goes a long way to prevent that, because the exhaust gas mixing slows the burn rate.
2. Exhaust gases help to fill up the cylinder, therefore less space is required for the intake charge. This is where you pick up the MPG- it's worth probably 0.5-1mpg on our cars, maybe even 2 at highway cruising, but that might be generous.
EGR is a light-throttle only emissions control device. Importantly, EGR messes with the intake charge too much under heavy throttle, which can lead to poor charge control, etc, so the ECU shuts it down under heavy throttle. For max power, you want the cylinder filled with fresh air to the greatest extent possible, which gives you max burn-> max cylinder pressure-> max power.
Still want to mess with it?
Thread Starter
Banned
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From: Frederick, Maryland
I dont know guys. Everyone seems to have there own opinion. But I seriously dont thinking that the EGR prevents the motor from damaging itself by venting burnt gas into the manifold.
Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
On another note, the japanese version of our cars dont even have EGRs so the removal the EGR should not do any damage if honda felt like they were fine to do without elsewhere.
They dont have it because the Japan dont have emissions standards like the US does. Even some US cars differ by California emissions cars will require EGR and the Federal ones dont also on some older vehicles CAlifornia required CAT converters and the Federal/49 state did not. Hope this sheds some light on why some cars do and others dont.
Three Wheelin'
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,308
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From: Texas
EGR helps nox emissions and decreases it pretty much it and some gas mileage. Other than that not much. The pinging can usually be solved by a higher octane gasoline. I ran my old accord with no EGR but with the plug attached with blockoff that didnt throw a CEL. Emissions was not passable but yea. Performance I dunno didnt notice much really so I have no comment on performance gains removing EGR. Then I got my next accord swapped in h22a and ran a p28 which doesnt look for EGR or knock sensors. Car still ran fine. I got 400+ miles a tank cruising mostly highway. Mixed I would still run around 380 ish. But I dunno I can see the performance gain but to me I dont see if its worth it as I havent felt much. hey it might be different for the v6's I only experienced egr removal in 4 bangers.
Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
They dont have it because the Japan dont have emissions standards like the US does. Even some US cars differ by California emissions cars will require EGR and the Federal ones dont also on some older vehicles CAlifornia required CAT converters and the Federal/49 state did not. Hope this sheds some light on why some cars do and others dont.
Team Owner
Joined: Mar 2006
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From: Bakersfield
Every ECM I've looked into, especially on my car has a timing bump when the EGR is in effect to make up for the power you lose from the contaminated charge. This timing bump without EGR will result in detonation.
You will pick up nothing from this other than a bunch of pinging unless you're prepared to run on something higher than 95 octane all the time.
Thread Starter
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From: Frederick, Maryland
Because the timing maps are different in cars without EGR.
Every ECM I've looked into, especially on my car has a timing bump when the EGR is in effect to make up for the power you lose from the contaminated charge. This timing bump without EGR will result in detonation.
You will pick up nothing from this other than a bunch of pinging unless you're prepared to run on something higher than 95 octane all the time.
Every ECM I've looked into, especially on my car has a timing bump when the EGR is in effect to make up for the power you lose from the contaminated charge. This timing bump without EGR will result in detonation.
You will pick up nothing from this other than a bunch of pinging unless you're prepared to run on something higher than 95 octane all the time.
Because the timing maps are different in cars without EGR.
Every ECM I've looked into, especially on my car has a timing bump when the EGR is in effect to make up for the power you lose from the contaminated charge. This timing bump without EGR will result in detonation.
You will pick up nothing from this other than a bunch of pinging unless you're prepared to run on something higher than 95 octane all the time.
Every ECM I've looked into, especially on my car has a timing bump when the EGR is in effect to make up for the power you lose from the contaminated charge. This timing bump without EGR will result in detonation.
You will pick up nothing from this other than a bunch of pinging unless you're prepared to run on something higher than 95 octane all the time.
Not always.
@ vill https://acurazine.com/forums/3g-tl-2004-2008-93/inside-oem-muffler-pics-596607/
Look @ post 23's date then post 24's....
Look @ post 23's date then post 24's....
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