MAS

iTrader: (3)

Quote:

Originally Posted by pohljm

You have essentially a 300HP vacuum pump. It will easily open that check valve

Makes sense. I believe the meth pump is at 150psi....not sure what the TB suction is at although i can see your logic that it would be high.

I hate cars

Definitely possible but most check valves use just enough spring force to keep the ball seated. There are specially made ones, I use one in one of my wastegate lines that only opens after 15psi to make the turbo spool quicker. I doubt the inline checkvalve in this meth system is one of these, they're usually large and may have an adjustment or an opening psi.

Maybe we can get a closeup of the check valve.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

I think the fuel injecotr size was already changed because we used the tune from the prev owner as a baseline. Once I take it easy for a while and monitor my AFR Im gonna take it back to get retuned. I might go ahead and crush the FPR too.

My RSX-S injectors were direct plug in, I was really close to getting RDX injectors but I figured I would wait because Im more concerned with driveability and having a "safe" motor than with horsepower. I went for a drive a bit ago with the new plugs in, gapped at .028. Still got a blinking CEL with the same misfire code, but now it comes on after I let off the gas and am slowing down with no throttle. Then is goes off by itself after like 30sec to a min... It definitely only does it when im spraying the meth, I ordered some of that boost juice shit just to make sure its not my damn homebrew meth causing the CEL. I also moved the meth nozzle to before the TB to eliminate the siphoning because IHC got me all worried about that...

I also ordered a boost gauge cause Ive never owned a SC and I want to see how it builds boost as opposed to a turbo.

Heres what else I did today while I was changing the plugs:



new nozzle location

MAS

iTrader: (3)

now youve got me confused......the meth is under suction there as well.....no progress...actually now the meth is going thru the S/C which could potentially prematurely wear the blade coatings and the air upstream is not as hot as the air downstream of the s/c so youre not getting the max benefit of meth injection

pohljm

Selenoid

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Its not under suction before the TB, at least not enough to siphon it. All meth kits say to put the nozzle before the TB so there has to be a reason... From what Ive read spraying through the supercharger is fine, it is supposed to cool it off as well as the intake charge. The coating on the blades is already worn off so I say fuck it

Right now I just want to find the source of the misfire, later on I can experiment with it and try to find which way works best

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

read this about spraying through the SC, yes, its from a site that sells meth kits so obviously they wont tell you its bad, but the logic makes sense to me

http://www.alcoholinjectionsystems.c...icle_info.html

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Disconnect the meth all together and see what happens.. maybe your spraying too much if even you use the small nozzle. Doesnt it gradually increase flow as boost goes up.. or rpm.. maybe they tuned it wrong...

I hate cars

MAS is right. Spraying before the blower can hurt coatings but maybe most importantly you don't get nearly the cooling effect. I've been playing with this stuff since '94 and I'm not trying to sell a product. Believe me, pre supercharger is not the way to go. The article mentions methanol keeping the blower housing and rotors cool. Screw the housing and rotors, they can run as hot as they want with practically no effect on the air temperature. Heat is created from compression of the air and from friction. This happens when the air is caught in between the rotors and compressed. If you spray before the rotors the meth cools the almost ambient air a little and then it gets reheated once it's compressed. Hell, I've sprayed pre turbo before and I have charge temp probes after the turbo and after the intercooler and meth nozzle along with the factory air filter temp sensor. Being able to see changes in real time will show what works and what doesn't work quickly and pre turbo had a much smaller cooling effect.

On a turbo setup, you put the nozzle before the throttle body and it works because it's after the turbo (nothing going through the turbo) and it's before the throttlebody so no vacuum either, only pressure.

There's no good reason to inject before the blower.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Looked over the aem meth kit. Your running the 155cc/min nozzle. Your controller can only go from .5 up to start spraying and 6 psi min to reach full spray so I don't think your spraying too much. What is the controller set up at anyways..

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

The adjustment on the controller is bullshit, its just tiny tick marks and a screwhead with no markings to indicate where its set at. So just from feeling how much I turned the screw its set at 1psi to start and like 8psi for max flow, which it will never reach. I just went for a test drive and the green flashing indicator LED never came on, which its supposed to when its spraying. I never tested the LED itself though so I dont know if its good.

Ill give it a shot with the meth off and see what happens, if I dont get any misfire where do I go from there? Plenty of people on here are using meth with this SC, I dont remember seeing any of them getting this misfire code.

I hate cars

I missed a bunch of info in this thread. It seems pretty clear cut if its only doing it with the meth on. You can change the composition such as using pure meth or a different mixture. 50-50 mix is not doing you any favors. Pure meth is by far the way to go and it's easier to tune. Or you can reduce the volume. If the car is running extremely rich it will feel just like a rev-limiter. I just fixed a friends GN that runs 11s that I have a video of my TL smoking because of this 3,000rpm revlimiter. It was running an AFR of 7 under boost lol. It was also doing what most don't believe but it was pinging from being way to rich so that's something to think about.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The led should light up each time you start the car and go thru a system check to indicate any issues. I would also look into using the windshield washer tank for meth, much easier to fill.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

That's the problem I'm having... too much fuel and I hit that rev limiter... need to finally install my jnr ecu

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Mine doesnt do that so I guess the LED is bad, I know I wired it up right. Ill get a new one.

I was thinking about using the washer fluid tank as my meth container. I gotta take my bumper off anyway to install the foglights so I might do it.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Here's how I did mine.



I've since gone to a 2nd tank because I missed the windshield washer.

MAS

iTrader: (3)

^^Thx to KN's pictures mine is pretty much the same way.....very convenient.

Marcelechka

Got mine routed through the trunk since the kit came with a huge tank. Your guys setup is definitely convenient if you don't a tank.

To the OP - as many has mentioned, I don't recommend spraying before the blower. It'll definitely shorten the life; possibly damaging the blades within the housing.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

I already moved the nozzle back to after the blower. I also cleaned it in CLP cause maybe it was clogged. Time for another test run. Ive got it set to start spraying at 2psi and max flow at 6psi, which is the lowest you can go for max flow.

MAS

iTrader: (3)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richkid1102

Got mine routed through the trunk since the kit came with a huge tank. Your guys setup is definitely convenient if you don't a tank.

To the OP - as many has mentioned, I don't recommend spraying before the blower. It'll definitely shorten the life; possibly damaging the blades within the housing.

You use the pre-mix 50/50 boost juice right?? How often do you go thru a gallon of it?

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

on the test drive it did fine with just regular driving. I floored it once in 2nd gear and went to redine, the CEL started blinking for the misfire after I let off the gas. I pulled over right after and it was weird as hell, the exhaust smelled like the smoke from fireworks, thats the only way I can describe it... I dont know what its from, I smelled the same thing when I was behind the car during tuning when he did a pull. I searched google and I didnt see anything about it being normal for meth injection so I dont know whats causing it. I turned the meth controller to start at 3psi and max @ like 10, so it should barely be spraying- then did another full throttle pull. Same thing happened, CEL blinks after I let off the gas. I was logging the whole time so Im gonna look over it and try to see whats happening. I might post up the logs here cause Im not experienced with looking for problems.

MAS

iTrader: (3)

Man, I dont think I would keep messing around by now.......sounds like it could be serious.....might be time to see the tuner or another boost shop

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Im gonna wait til I get the boost juice in there and take it to get tuned again. I might crush the fpr too before I take it back. The shop I took it to is supposed to be the best one in the area, Im not taking it to any of the shops in this town because there are only 2 import shops and Ive heard horrible things about both. I looked at my logs and on one full throttle run, with the meth coming on at 1psi and hitting max at 6psi the AFR was 11.0 - 11.1 for the whole time I was at 99% throttle. The CEL still started blinking after I let off the gas. I set the meth so it wouldnt spray at all and went full throttle for like 4 seconds, it shot up to 15.0 AFR for a split second then leaned back out to 11ish, but at the very end for the last second before I let off the gas it dropped down to 10.0, which is not good. I dont know whats goin on, Im gonna call the guy who tuned it and try to get this fixed.

MAS

iTrader: (3)

good luck...... keep us posted

ACCURATEin

I can talk to Jordan at National Speed and see if they would be able to help.

Sounds like a damn nightmare.

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

sounds like a tuning issue...

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

That would be great. Id gladly drive to charlotte if there is someone who knows what they are doing there.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

This is my second run with the meth turned down (thought it was off but I guess not). I drew that yellow line to show where 11.0AFR is, as you can see in the circles, it goes up to 15 and 16 almost, and drops down to 10 at the end for a second. You can see the time stamp at the bottom, that was 1st and 2nd gear and it only lasted about 6 seconds total.
(the turquoise line at the bottom is the analog input for the meth controller voltage its providing the pump, theres a formula to figure out the psi based on the voltage)


This was my first run, meth set to come on at 1psi and max at 6. Light blue is AFR and green at the bottom is the meth voltage. As you can see by looking at the light blue line, it stayed right around 11.1 the whole time I was in throttle.


On the second run when the AFR dropped to 10, the injector duty cycles were over 90%, where on the first run with the meth they were low 80's most of the time, except for a split second when it jumped up to 97%. Im definitely gonna crush my FPR today

I hate cars

Using the meth as a supplimental fuel is worlds better than crushing the FPR. If it goes too lean up top or PW gets too high, turn the meth up. Mine is set up to run 20% meth at full throttle which means 26+psi on pump gas and an cold intake manifold. You want your injectors to be able to cover all fueling just in case the meth fails to be safe (I don't have it set up that way) but adjust the under boost fueling with the meth. Keep in mind that different programs will track injector PW differently and 80% is sometimes very conservative, you have to ask, 80% of what??? 180 degrees of crank rotation or 360 degrees or 720? Its normal in my world to order a race chip that has the timing maxed and injectors at 100+% and 30+psi boost. It's a balls to the wall chip for the track and 116 octane. The moral of the story is it doeesn't hurt to run the injectors at or past 80% briefly at full throttle. If it's only going past 80% when AFR dips to 11:1 or less, there's no need to get bigger injectors, get the AFR fixed and it will be fine.

ACCURATEin

National Speed is in Wilmington. I sent Jordan a link to the thread.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Sweet thanks. I already crushed the fpr today and my boost juice came in too. Im moving the pump and using the washer fluid tank for the meth now. So ill be ready to get tuned again tomorrow maybe. Jordan, if you see this pm me and ill give you my number so we can set up a time for me to bring the car in if that works for you.

MAS

iTrader: (3)

Marcelechka

No, I picked up a 7 gal container of meth for super cheap and do the mixing myself with destilled water. To date, I haven't refilled since I filled the tank. It's going on two months now? Definitely depends on how you drive.

When I first installed the kit, I ran into similar issues:

- Running rich with a/f dipping into 10s when spraying. Remember the meth serves as fuel as well, you'll have to pull some fuel accordingly. I am in no way a tuner, but have learned how to add and remove fuel when needed. Both the a/f gauge and the tuning software's data logger will be your best friends!

- Regarding the smoking; we found the meth was actually cleaning inside the engine. All the gunk or what not... the smoke went away after the second or third run; we let the car sit at idle for 10 to 15 mins. All of the gunk burned itself out... Currently smoke free as of today

These comments may or may not be helpful as every car / application is different. Hope you get it all straightened out.. GL

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Drove it today with the boost juice and the fpr crushed, seems to be running better. Im gonna get it tuned again just to be safe, I dont trust myself enough to street tune it. Ill let you guys know what happens, thanks for all the insight on this