Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Im hoping that one of you guys that has the CT kit with meth injection can help me out here...

Car is an 04 6 speed, only 60K miles, got it tuned today and it made 295 whp corrected, on a Superflo AutoDyn dyno. Im using the AEM F/IC for tuning, my other mods are: PCDs, cold air intake, AEM meth injection (smallest nozzle in the kit), ATLP V1 Jpipe, stock mufflers with 2 resonators, oil catch can, thats about it I guess.

When it was on the dyno there were no CELs at all until he pulled it out of the bay, he was done in about an hour. The code was a random misfire, he cleared it and I left, told me it was probably cause he stalled it. It drove great for a while but when I went full throttle is when the CEL started blinking, it doesnt feel like it misfiring though, but I just let off throttle when it happens so I cant be sure. I stopped and cleared the codes (it had all cylinders 1-6 misfire and a random misfire, so 7 codes total) using torque pro, and the CEL stays off until I floor it again, it drives fine and the Air/Fuel is fine the whole time. My tuner said it was probably the plugs cause the A/F was good, and he recommended some NGK BKR7ES-11 copper plugs gapped at like .028, Im using some NGK BKR8EIX iridiums now at .030...

So, it seems to me that it gives the misfire only when the meth is spraying, cause I can go up to like 5500 rpms with no CEL, but once I hit full boost (3-4psi) at like 6k, the CEL blinks, sometimes it turns right back off, sometimes it turns solid and stays on even if I turn the car off and back on.

One more thing- when I mixed the meth I used 3/4 gallon of -20 deg washer fluid with one bottle of HEET, then after the first misfires I added another bottle of HEET- that is when the CEL blinked and then turned itself right off after a few seconds. What is the proper mixture to get the correct 50/50 meth/water ratio?

And last- does this diagram look right for my catch can? The 2 valve cover ports are connected with a "T" and they go into one port on the catch can, and the other hose is from the intake manifold port, and I put a one way valve on it so the boost doesnt bleed out into the catch can. The can also has a small breather filter on it as a vent, no hoses going back to the intake. Do I need that one way valve there at all? Could I just plug that IM port completely and just vent the valve covers to the can?

better pic of catch can:


Heres the meth tank, I had to mount it flat and move the pump feed line to the bottom, Im gonna make a custom metal tank eventually.


Any advice you guys could give me would be great, tomorrow Im gonna pull the SC off again and try the copper plugs, and also put a new belt on cause I got power steering fluid on this one so its squeaking some.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah, I just remembered I put in the 310cc injectors too. I didnt crush the FPR because I didnt think Id need to with these injectors, is that true or should I do it now? Id have to get re-tuned if I do that though right?

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Oh yeah, I just remembered I put in the 310cc injectors too. I didnt crush the FPR because I didnt think Id need to with these injectors, is that true or should I do it now? Id have to get re-tuned if I do that though right?

handsom-hustla

iTrader: (3)

meth: middle nozzle, 50/50 w/ distilled water. shame for using washer fluid with HEET! lol.

injectors: with these you will need to crush the FPR. try to upgrade to RDX down the line. 410cc - no need to crush.

plugs: ONE step cooler.

Catch can: cant help.

GL.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

This is how I think the PCV system works.

Fresh air is drawn in through the rear valve cover and the vapors are drawn out through the PCV valve and into the IM with the IM providing the vacuum.

The PCV valve should stop the backflow under boost and several of us put in check valves along with the PCV valve, Evap purge loop and brake booster to be sure no boost is getting into these systems.

The cans can go in the PCV side and/or the fresh air side. The PCV side needs to be unvented to maintain the vacuum. The fresh air side needs to be vented to allow air to be drawn in or in my case with blowby that I get air/vapor going out. If you don't have too much blowby, just put a little filter on the rear fitting.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Cool thanks for the info, I thought washer fluid and HEET was the norm. Youre saying I should buy pure methanol and mix it 50/50 with water then? I thought that shit was expensive and hard to find. If I crush the FPR will it change the fuel map so much that I need a retune? I wanted to get the RDXs but I ran out of funds. The plugs I have now are 2 steps colder, are the BKR7ES-11's the right ones???

So my catch can is basically worthless as it is, or not helping at all I guess. I was under the impression that the valve cover ports were to release the pressure from blowby and all that, I dont understand how the one on the back pulls air in. Is the front one tied into the PCV valve thats on the front of the valve cover? Would it hurt anything to just plug the port on the IM then? Thanks for the help btw

handsom-hustla

iTrader: (3)

pure meth yes, mixed with distilled.
its kinda hard to find, luckily I have some one local, its not expensive. i believe 20 a gallon.
I would assume a re tune.
plugs aren't going to hurt, most are running these. i think 1 step cooler is ideal.

I would say go back to your tuner and have him dial in for the problem.

libert69

iTrader: (7)

iridiums are fine for boosted TL's. in fact, they work very well. start by going one step colder then stock (go with a 7 heat range iridium...BKR7EIX ). then start closing the gap on the plugs by .01 increments until the misfires go away.

Nice IM cover btw lol....who did the tuning? a/f graph?

all these things can be done on your own without having to go back to the tuner and pay them again if thats what they want...

i miss my TL big time...if you need help street tuning and getting rid of those misfires then hit me up.

edit...should of read further... u already have the BKR8EIX right? if so then leave the plugs and start to close the gap

pure meth is the way to go and is easy to fine. go to skspeed in either rockville center or lindenhurst. 5 gallon can for about 55$

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

I've been looking into a catch can lately.

The way you've got it setup it looks like you're pressurizing the crankcase, since the manifold is pressurized under boost and you have a line from the manifold running to the catch can which is tied to both of your valve covers.

From what I've gathered the PCV is a one-way valve.

The valve cover near the firewall is where the air goes into the crankcase, and the PCV is the exit from the crankcase that vents into the intake manifold under vacuum (normal for NA car).

Boosted cars have the intake pressurized under boost, which in effect will pressurize the crankcase if its tied to the IM like yours is.

There's a lot of setups for the catch can, but it should be on the PCV side to catch the blow-by coming out of the crankcase and then tied to a vacuum line.

If I'm not mistaken with the way its routed the way you have it under boost your PCV valve is closing (one-way) and you're blowing air through the catch can and into the crankcase through the valve cover near the firewall.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Re-read, that you put a one-way valve on it.

I think the other guys boosted are running their catch cans on the PCV side with a breather on the valve cover near the firewall.

I'll let one of them chime in though.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, that IM cover is sexy huh? I got it tuned at carolina dyno in Wilmington, NC, I think you forgot Im still living in NC. I dont know if I can get an A/F graph from the FI/C??? Ill call and ask him to email it to me. So first Ill try to use 50/50 pure meth and distilled water, if that doesnt fix it Ill start closing the gap on the plugs. Is it safe to just do the 3 rear plugs at first to see if the misfire goes away on those cylinders. It would be retarded to pull the SC off over and over just to close the plug gap. Im at .030 now, Ill go to .028 and see what happens...

I see how it works now, Im gonna put a breather on the rear valve cover and run the two lines from the IM and the front valve cover to the can, and put a check valve inline so I dont pressurize the crankcase under boost. Thanks

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

The stock PCV system is there to remove the contaminated vapors by pulling it into the IM. The air is drawn into the rear cover, down into the crankcase and up through the front cover controlled by the PCV valve. If the valve wasn't there or stuck open, you've essentially got a vacuum leak that will cause a high or inconsistent idle. In my case, I think the PCV valve was damaged by boost so I added check valves everywhere that can be exposed to positive pressure.

IHC has stated many times that you can just eliminate the PCV system, vent everything old school to the outside and just do oil changes more frequently.

I am running 2 cans since I have blowby



EDIT: And Mzilvar is correct, the PCV valve is a check valve but it also is somewhat metered so it doesn't affect idle.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Ok I get it, I see your check valve there going to the IM, thats how I have mine. Where did you get those check valves? Online or at a parts store in town? Thanks again man

TurboGSR96

I have no experience with boosted TL's, but I have over a decade with boosted B series motors. They have a weaker ignition then the J and K stuff and .030 is definitely too much gap imo.

For a reference, I was at .016 gap in my Integra burning E85.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

The site is called US plastics, the check valves were $1-2 each. I got three IM, brake booster, and purge valve. I don't remember the size, maybe someone else will.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

I used the 3/8" kynar valves. But it really depends on the size tubing. I was able to get these to fit on all the connections I had.

http://www.usplastic.com/catalog/ite...6844&catid=489

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Cool, Ill get some of those. The only oil I see in my catch can lines is coming from the IM towards the catch can, and thats probably cause of the boost I guess, I dont really see how oil is getting into the IM though. Im gonna put the check valve after the catch can so itll be liek this:

breather filter on rear VC---> tube from front VC to sealed catch can ---> tube from catch can to IM with one way check valve

That sound right?

I just changed the belt cause I got PS fluid on the old one so it was squealing, went for a quick test drive. On my first full throttle 1,2 gear pull it screamed like hell and no CEL light came on. Then I did it again and the light blinked for about 30 secs and turned off. I sure as hell cant feel a misfire, its running fine it seems. I wired in my wideband and the meth controller to the analog inputs on my FI/C, so once I research how the hell to use my software Ill go for a drive and datalog it so maybe we can see if everything is ok. Im going to autozone to pick up my new plugs- the BKR7ES-11s, I guess ill go ahead and gap em to like .026 or .027. I used those plugs on my old turbo civic and made 320hp. Thanks for the help everyone.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

One more thing I noticed: how much noise is normal to be coming from the gear housing on the SC driveshaft? Its kinda loud but I dont know if its normal cause Ive never heard one of these. I put 6oz of GM supercharger oil in it when I assembled it which is what the guys at CT recommended

MAS

iTrader: (3)

Nice engine bay.

I get CELs with my S/C but mine are "P0172 and P0175....too rich". My problem only manifests itself during closed loop. While flooring it, it never happens. So my problem is slightly different than yours but one tuner told me to gap smaller as well, which i did in the rear and all of the codes returned the same. Another tuner told me to add defoulers to the first o2 sensors which seemed odd. He says although the first O2 sensors are used to seeing rich values since they are upstream of the cats if you have PCDs the temp difference between the precat and postcat sensors may be too small and maybe causing the CEL. I bought the foulers but have not made the time to install yet so i dont know if it is the answer.

Once again its sounds different than your problem but maybe something else to test. I wonder what Hi-Speed and KN_TL think about what my tuner said might fix it.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

sweet, on my way to the parts store to get my new plugs and the CEL came on again. I figured it was juse misfire like usual, but I wasnt even in the throttle that much. Then I pull off from a light and the rev limiter hits at 3500rpm now. I pulled over and checked the codes- got the misfires like before but also a "p2647- rocker arm actuator system stuck on bank 1". I searched it and it turns out to be the VTEC pressure switch/solenoid. I cleared it and it came right back on, the VSA light is on too btw. WTF is going on with this bitch??

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

Boost in a TL. Enjoy. Lol

I hate cars

The way that PCV system is in the picture is just a big loop. There's no fresh air, just a vacuum on the crank case.

In a NA engine you want fresh air to enter one valve cover, go through the crank case to the other valve cover and be drawn out under vacuum by the PCV valve. The catch would go between the PCV valve on the valve cover and the intake manifold. The only time flow stops is when you're under full throttle and there's no manifold vacuum.

For the turbo engines it's not a bad idea to put a catch on the PCV side and the fresh air side. The reason being once you go under boost the PCV side no longer functions, there's pressure instead of vacuum. Any blowby backflows through the fresh air inlet and exits that way. When boosted you're going to be at the 0 vacuum and greater much more of the time with the system backflowing so a catch on the fresh air inlet is not a bad idea.

Don't T the valvecovers together, one is an inlet for fresh air, one is an outlet for fresh air/crank case vapor.

As KN said, you can run breathers on the valve covers and delete the PCV but you will have to change the oil more often.

Do you have a solenoid in your meth line going to the engine? With the line after the throttlebody it will be under vacuum and will siphon meth under part throttle without a solenoid. I personally prefer pure meth for performance.

Obviously too much meth will cause a misfire. Why are you running heet with it?

You're not making enough power to be taxing the ignition system, at least not once the gap is closed down slightly over stock. The turbo guys are making 500+whp on the stock ignition. It's cylinder pressure that raises the demands on the ignition system. .030 should be fine for 300whp. The turbo 4 banger making 320hp is a lot more demanding than a 6 cylinder making about the same.

Last, do you have some form of knock detection? There's nothing more important than this one thing. I hope you have one if you wan the engine to have a chance of surviving the supercharger.

I would be checking the oil right now to make sure you don't have meth contamination.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Thanks IHC, I already fixed the PCV setup this morning. I didnt realize it would siphon the meth like that, it does say to mount it before the TB but I didnt want to spray through the SC. The nozzle is on the bottom side of the plenum coming out of the SC housing, about 8" before the IM. The AEM manual says it has check valves, I figured that would stop it from siphoning it... Ill go check the oil now to see if it has water in it. That would definitely cause the VTEC switch CEL to come on wouldnt it? The only knock detector I have is the bullshit one that I have on my torque pro app, so of course i dont trust it that much. Can I tap into the stock knock sensor and wire it to the analog input on the FI/C? It would have to be a 0-5V input, do you know if it is? That wouldnt give me any real time knock monitoring though.

Here is the datalog from a little while ago when the CEL came on for misfire and the VTEC pressure switch: I went full throttle for 7 seconds and only got up to about 5200rpm. Thats when it happened- Im still trying to figure out how to use this software

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

I checked the oil, it looks fine- not milky or cloudy like it would be if meth had got in there. I had the battery disconnected for about an hour and turned it back on, the CEL and VSA lights came on after a few seconds again, same code- P2647. Is that definitely the VTEC pressure switch?

Heres the PCV setup now- catch can is sealed off completely

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Do you have a wideband installed? I was throwing this code but I truly was too rich. Now that things are in order mixture wise, I don't see that now.

That being said, I do have the j-pipes installed on my downstream sensors.

KN_TL

iTrader: (3)

Do you have a wideband installed? I was throwing this code but I truly was too rich. Now that things are in order, I don't see that now.

That being said, I do have the j-pipes installed on my downstream sensors.

Infamouslink is having the same issue. Not sure i he fixed it or not.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

Ill PM him and ask, Im gonna take the oil press switch off now and see if its actually stuck. Theres no reason it should be, I dont know what else to do.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

I took the vtec solenoid housing off and cleaned it with brake cleaner, it was actually really clean and there was no debris or anything in there. I checked the resistance on the vtec solenoid and it was 15ohms, which is in spec apparently (I read 14-30ohms is good). I activated the solenoid a few times and it clicks on and off fine... I put it back on and filled it up with oil, I only drained 3qts to begin with so I added 3 qts of Mobil1. Cleared the code and fired it up for a while, the CEL didnt come back on while idling but I havent went for a drive yet so I guess Ill find out if that fixed it. Hopefully its all good now so I can move on to the misfire problem, which was the original plan of the day.

I hate cars

Perfect.

Watch for oil on the fresh air inlet filter. You should be fine but as you get more blowby it can saturate with oil and drip. When my engine was on it's last leg I freaked people out by popping the hood after a race with the turbo and headers still glowing and an occasional drip onto the exhaust from the breathers making a brief fireball.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

It turns out the AEM meth kit I have is the older version with an inline check valve to prevent the siphoning so it should be fine. I forgot to answer about the HEET with the meth- supposedly its almost completely methanol so mixing 2 bottles with a gallon of -20 washer fluid heeds about a 50/50 mix. Its what my buddy was using in his bimmer, Im still gonna try to find a source for actual methanol though

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

You can buy the pre mixed 50/50 called boost juice from Summit Racing for about $40 for 4 gallons. I have only gone thru 2 gal in two years.

I hate cars

That's crazy. I used to use up my gallon and go home to refill in a single night but I tend to get carried away easily and that was when this was a redneck town with some serious cars at every other light it seemed. Straight meth can usually be found for about the same as premium pump gas, usually under $5 a gallon. At one point I had a 55 gallon drum of C14 in the garage next to the meth because they offer quite a discount by the drum.

If you ever pass through town I have about 10 gallons of meth that are going to waste you can have.

MAS

iTrader: (3)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Turbocoop

It turns out the AEM meth kit I have is the older version with an inline check valve to prevent the siphoning so it should be fine. I forgot to answer about the HEET with the meth- supposedly its almost completely methanol so mixing 2 bottles with a gallon of -20 washer fluid heeds about a 50/50 mix. Its what my buddy was using in his bimmer, Im still gonna try to find a source for actual methanol though

Where is the inline check valve? If its not close to the TB it can suck in everything downstream of it.

Turbocoop

iTrader: (3)

The check valve is about 8" back from the nozzle, so if it is siphoning it will only be able to pull in less than and ounce of liquid. Im gonna order the new style nozzle from AEM with the check valve built into it.

maharajamd

iTrader: (1)

Nice thread! All you guys in boost and making me jealous.

I hate cars

Check valve will do nothing on this setup. The flow direction is correct whether the pump is pumping it or the engine is siphoning it. You need a solenoid.

Marcelechka

MAS

iTrader: (3)

Quote:

Originally Posted by I hate cars

Check valve will do nothing on this setup. The flow direction is correct whether the pump is pumping it or the engine is siphoning it. You need a solenoid.

How about if the spring rate in the check valve is enough to be above TB suction force but low enough to be "openable" by the pump? Not sure this is likely but possible right??

pohljm

You have essentially a 300HP vacuum pump. It will easily open that check valve

InFaMouSLink

iTrader: (10)

Looks like you got your answer. I got your PM last night.. Good readings on this thread. Its been a while since I read a thread with so much info here on AZ.
My problem is i cant go passed 5K rpm when I floor it since i added the new injectors(RDX 410).. Im getting P0172 and P0175 (too rich both banks). I havent added my AF gauge yet but using torque pro, I held the gas in while hitting the 5K wall and saw my af was at 10 the whole time until i let go of the gas.. It would only do it when im actually moving... I can go all the way to 7K in 1st and 2nd if i floor it from the begining. if im cruising at about 30mph, it wont let me... i'll do a few runs today and see at what speeds i hit the wall on the lower gears. i remember going like 60-70 and my wall was now at 4K RPM... thinking too much fuel..
When you tuned your car, did you make sure they also changed the fuel injector size in the software? Im not getting any misfire codes either nor blinking CEL...
For the RSX injectors, they fit right in without changing the plug right... I originally thought it was my wiring of the SC clips for my RDX injectors and flipped them around and still same problem and still no misfire codes.