Comptech Supercharger: Official Info thread.
11-23-2005, 05:37 PM
#121
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
I think it's apparent that i know what i am talking about....it's getting to the truth that takes time and sometimes, mistakes.
Steve knows what hes talking about as well.
I on the other hand have no idea what you guys are talking about. But its good knowing you both are here in case I decide to go this route.
11-23-2005, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
1st) It was previously published that the ACM will have control over ignition timing. The old system used an increase in fuel pressure to get over the stock ignition timing hurdle. That isn't an issue here.
2nd) A "target" AFR isn't relevant. This isn't a custom tuned ACM for each individual car. I'm going to run a different AFR in July than I am in December. And someone one the west coast will run different than someone on the east coast.
However, experience has shown that around 12.0:1 is ideal for the J32A2. My automatic CL-S showed around 11.1:1 around 5000rpm and leaned out to around 12.1:1 at redline.
2nd) A "target" AFR isn't relevant. This isn't a custom tuned ACM for each individual car. I'm going to run a different AFR in July than I am in December. And someone one the west coast will run different than someone on the east coast.
However, experience has shown that around 12.0:1 is ideal for the J32A2. My automatic CL-S showed around 11.1:1 around 5000rpm and leaned out to around 12.1:1 at redline.
2) Here is where you go really wrong. AFR's are very important to reliability and performance.......also, i'm sorry to tell you that what AFR you tune for has nothing to do with weither it's July or December or if you live on the east or west coast.
Actually, experience has shown that depeding on your set-up(i.e. turbo/SC, Backpressure....ect) and boost level, your AFR should be anywhere from 10.5:1-12.5:1.....12.0:1 is not always the ideal AFR for any set-up/boost level. Going from 11.0:1 to 12.0:1 spread in the rev range is typical of a AFC with a "general" tuned calibration.
mrsteve, the questions i left were for Comptech to answer, not you. So, do us all a favor and let the technical questions get answered by the Professionals...thanks
CJ
11-23-2005, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
mrsteve, the questions i left were for Comptech to answer, not you. So, do us all a favor and let the technical questions get answered by the Professionals...thanks
CJ
CJ
11-23-2005, 05:54 PM
#124
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I think is very important that i state my intentions before i go any further.
The average aftermarket parts consumer is inherintly nieve to facts like we are stating above. They put their trust in the vendor to shoot them strait and not put that trust on the line. All too often, products are purchased with no questions asked.
This is why i am here. I consider myself a consumer advocate of sorts. I have, in the past, helped debunk falsehoods about promising products from, at the time, respectable vendors. Due to my efforts, consumers were made aware of the false truths about this product and engines and money was saved by all who choose to believe my testing. I am, by no means saying that the Comptech ACM is not what Comptech says it is, but with my knowledge in this very subject, i feel compelled to challange issues which throw up a red flag. IT helps keep everybody honest....so please understand why i am asking these questions.
As a consumer, i feel it's very important to know exactly what a product does and how it goes about doing it. People like me are not very common in the aftermarket performance world. It's important for the facts to be presented when you are playing with a consumers walet, not to mention trust.
So, in short, it's very healthy to have this kind of debate. It get's the facts on the table and everybody will win.
CJ
The average aftermarket parts consumer is inherintly nieve to facts like we are stating above. They put their trust in the vendor to shoot them strait and not put that trust on the line. All too often, products are purchased with no questions asked.
This is why i am here. I consider myself a consumer advocate of sorts. I have, in the past, helped debunk falsehoods about promising products from, at the time, respectable vendors. Due to my efforts, consumers were made aware of the false truths about this product and engines and money was saved by all who choose to believe my testing. I am, by no means saying that the Comptech ACM is not what Comptech says it is, but with my knowledge in this very subject, i feel compelled to challange issues which throw up a red flag. IT helps keep everybody honest....so please understand why i am asking these questions.
As a consumer, i feel it's very important to know exactly what a product does and how it goes about doing it. People like me are not very common in the aftermarket performance world. It's important for the facts to be presented when you are playing with a consumers walet, not to mention trust.
So, in short, it's very healthy to have this kind of debate. It get's the facts on the table and everybody will win.
CJ
11-23-2005, 05:55 PM
#125
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
1) I have my extremly reliable sources, and the word is the ACM does not have direct control over ignition timing.....i am waiting to be proved wrong(and trust me, for the sake of the consumer, i want to be proved wrong because if i am correct, this issue will not be good for the consumer).
[QUOTE]2) Here is where you go really wrong. AFR's are very important to reliability and performance.......also, i'm sorry to tell you that what AFR you tune for has nothing to do with weither it's July or December or if you live on the east or west coast. [QUOTE]
So you're saying that if I tune my car here in Maryland. And then take it to California, in different atmospheric conditions it's going to run the same exact AFR as what I originally tuned here?
Going from 11.0:1 to 12.0:1 spread in the rev range is typical of a AFC with a "general" tuned calibration.
The only tuning on my set up was an ESM, fuel pump, and rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
11-23-2005, 05:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Hey it's a public forum and I'll respond to which posts I'd like to when I'd like to. I think we may need to increase the size of the forum though; it isn't quite large enough for your ego.
I'm sorry if your ego feels crushed.......
obviously you respond to every post on this board.......just look at your post count!!
CJ
11-23-2005, 05:57 PM
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[QUOTE=mrsteve]And I'm going on what was published in Comptech's latest newsletter.
[QUOTE]2) Here is where you go really wrong. AFR's are very important to reliability and performance.......also, i'm sorry to tell you that what AFR you tune for has nothing to do with weither it's July or December or if you live on the east or west coast.
So you're saying that if I tune my car here in Maryland. And then take it to California, in different atmospheric conditions it's going to run the same exact AFR as what I originally tuned here?
The only tuning on my set up was an ESM, fuel pump, and rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
my point proven.....lol
[QUOTE]2) Here is where you go really wrong. AFR's are very important to reliability and performance.......also, i'm sorry to tell you that what AFR you tune for has nothing to do with weither it's July or December or if you live on the east or west coast.
So you're saying that if I tune my car here in Maryland. And then take it to California, in different atmospheric conditions it's going to run the same exact AFR as what I originally tuned here?
The only tuning on my set up was an ESM, fuel pump, and rising rate fuel pressure regulator.
my point proven.....lol
11-23-2005, 05:59 PM
#128
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
I think is very important that i state my intentions before i go any further.
The average aftermarket parts consumer is inherintly nieve to facts like we are stating above. They put their trust in the vendor to shoot them strait and not put that trust on the line. All too often, products are purchased with no questions asked.
This is why i am here. I consider myself a consumer advocate of sorts. I have, in the past, helped debunk falsehoods about promising products from, at the time, respectable vendors. Due to my efforts, consumers were made aware of the false truths about this product and engines and money was saved by all who choose to believe my testing. I am, by no means saying that the Comptech ACM is not what Comptech says it is, but with my knowledge in this very subject, i feel compelled to challange issues which throw up a red flag. IT helps keep everybody honest....so please understand why i am asking these questions.
As a consumer, i feel it's very important to know exactly what a product does and how it goes about doing it. People like me are not very common in the aftermarket performance world. It's important for the facts to be presented when you are playing with a consumers walet, not to mention trust.
So, in short, it's very healthy to have this kind of debate. It get's the facts on the table and everybody will win.
CJ
The average aftermarket parts consumer is inherintly nieve to facts like we are stating above. They put their trust in the vendor to shoot them strait and not put that trust on the line. All too often, products are purchased with no questions asked.
This is why i am here. I consider myself a consumer advocate of sorts. I have, in the past, helped debunk falsehoods about promising products from, at the time, respectable vendors. Due to my efforts, consumers were made aware of the false truths about this product and engines and money was saved by all who choose to believe my testing. I am, by no means saying that the Comptech ACM is not what Comptech says it is, but with my knowledge in this very subject, i feel compelled to challange issues which throw up a red flag. IT helps keep everybody honest....so please understand why i am asking these questions.
As a consumer, i feel it's very important to know exactly what a product does and how it goes about doing it. People like me are not very common in the aftermarket performance world. It's important for the facts to be presented when you are playing with a consumers walet, not to mention trust.
So, in short, it's very healthy to have this kind of debate. It get's the facts on the table and everybody will win.
CJ
Comptech hasn't ever steered anyone wrong on this forum. Everyone has positive experiences. With the excellent relationship Comptech has with Honda and Acura dealerships across the country I highly doubt they'd release a product that was detrimental to any car's reliability or drive ability.
11-23-2005, 05:59 PM
#129
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
I'm sorry if your ego feels crushed.......
obviously you respond to every post on this board.......just look at your post count!!
CJ
obviously you respond to every post on this board.......just look at your post count!!
CJ
I've been here for a while, dozens of people have higher posts counts than I.
11-23-2005, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
my point proven.....lol
Comptech has never lied to me before, why should I believe any different now? What point are you trying to prove?
I'd tend to believe Comptech is the most reliable source... more reliable than your un-named sources.
11-23-2005, 06:04 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Comptech hasn't ever steered anyone wrong on this forum. Everyone has positive experiences. With the excellent relationship Comptech has with Honda and Acura dealerships across the country I highly doubt they'd release a product that was detrimental to any car's reliability or drive ability.
I knew you were going to miss the point. I never said i didn't trust comptech.......i did, however, say i don't trust what a vendor tells me with out proof of how it works.....remember we are playing with peoples wallets here.....
BTW, try to keep the thread clean and free of clutter. I'm getting kinda sick of the back and forth banter.
CJ
11-23-2005, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Comptech has never lied to me before, why should I believe any different now? What point are you trying to prove?
I'd tend to believe Comptech is the most reliable source... more reliable than your un-named sources.
I'd tend to believe Comptech is the most reliable source... more reliable than your un-named sources.
CJ
11-23-2005, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
BTW, try to keep the thread clean and free of clutter. I'm getting kinda sick of the back and forth banter.
CJ
I believe you called me out first
11-23-2005, 06:16 PM
#134
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
OK, so the MAP voltage clamp keeps MAP signal at no more than 3.00v......this is obviously to keep the ECU from not seeing the boost and not throwing a DTC(not because the ECU will retard ignition timing if the MAP signal goes over 3v like mrsteve said!!). It's pretty safe to say now that you are not using the MAP voltage clamp to alter fueling or to run larger injectors(because you are taking control over injector pulse width with the ACM)....i understand that now. But this brings another set of questions to mind.
You see, the old AFC(generally speaking) way of doing things (using a MAP voltage clamp to alter AFRs and run larger injectors) had a very bad side effect. Whenever you clamped the MAP voltage, you actually are telling the ECU to look up parts of the engine calibration that ignition timing is far too advanced for a forced induction engine at WOT....so, you had to rely on the knock sensor to retard ignition timing for you when the engine ran into pre-ignition from over advanced ignition timing......not very condusive to reliability and performance. So, with the new ACM, you eliminate this issue altogether, which is smart. BUT, what are you guys doing about retarding ignition timing now without taking complete control over ignition timing? Also, whats the reason you choose to "quiet" the knock sensor?
I stand corrected about your "ACM", but i do stand firmly on my grounds for asking questions as to what your ACM does. I also stand firm on the fact that leaving ignition timing in "stock" N/A values and drowning out the over advanced ignition timing with extra fuel is not the correct way to do things....unless you can prove me wrong again about how you tackle the ignition timing issue.
Also, what is the target AFR at WOT in boost you guys have the ACM shooting for?
CJ
You see, the old AFC(generally speaking) way of doing things (using a MAP voltage clamp to alter AFRs and run larger injectors) had a very bad side effect. Whenever you clamped the MAP voltage, you actually are telling the ECU to look up parts of the engine calibration that ignition timing is far too advanced for a forced induction engine at WOT....so, you had to rely on the knock sensor to retard ignition timing for you when the engine ran into pre-ignition from over advanced ignition timing......not very condusive to reliability and performance. So, with the new ACM, you eliminate this issue altogether, which is smart. BUT, what are you guys doing about retarding ignition timing now without taking complete control over ignition timing? Also, whats the reason you choose to "quiet" the knock sensor?
I stand corrected about your "ACM", but i do stand firmly on my grounds for asking questions as to what your ACM does. I also stand firm on the fact that leaving ignition timing in "stock" N/A values and drowning out the over advanced ignition timing with extra fuel is not the correct way to do things....unless you can prove me wrong again about how you tackle the ignition timing issue.
Also, what is the target AFR at WOT in boost you guys have the ACM shooting for?
CJ
I felt the need to forward this onto our tech department, here is the reply I received:
"By clamping the MAP sensor to 3.0 volts we keep the ECU from seeing too much boost and going into major timing retard mode (it does not throw a check engine light like the older cars). It also puts the ECU into the same map (timing and fuel map) location each time it goes into boost. With the ECU in the same place each time we get into boost (meaning the same injector millisecond and timing) we can then add injector milliseconds to in-rich the A/F mixture. By letting the factory ECU see some boost it takes away timing (this is the hard part finding how much boost to let the ECU see before it takes too much timing away or not enough). We do not rely on the knock sensor at all, we are actually relying on the Inlet air temp sensor to take away more timing under boost (hotter inlet air temps). We built a knock filter into the ACM just in case we had a problem with the blower adding noise to the car that the knock sensor might think is pre-ignition. So far we have not had to use this feature. We have been very successful on the TL supercharger kit by getting very close to 12.0 to 1 A/F ratio’s and not having any pre-ignition issues."
You're more than welcome to give us a call if you have any concerns in regards to this kit.
-Nate
11-23-2005, 06:19 PM
#135
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Sounds very familar to what I was saying 
> MAP too high = timing retard
> Adds pulse width
> 12.0:1 AFR
It does appear that I was incorrect on the timing retard. Since our IAT is measured after the compressor we can rely on the ECU to retard timing based on the increase in IAT after boost. Just as in the 2nd Gen kits.
On the K-series, which I'm sure TeamXRSX is very familiar with, IAT is measured before the compressor so this method can't be used.
11-23-2005, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Nate@Comptech
CJ,
I felt the need to forward this onto our tech department, here is the reply I received:
"By clamping the MAP sensor to 3.0 volts we keep the ECU from seeing too much boost and going into major timing retard mode (it does not throw a check engine light like the older cars). It also puts the ECU into the same map (timing and fuel map) location each time it goes into boost. With the ECU in the same place each time we get into boost (meaning the same injector millisecond and timing) we can then add injector milliseconds to in-rich the A/F mixture. By letting the factory ECU see some boost it takes away timing (this is the hard part finding how much boost to let the ECU see before it takes too much timing away or not enough). We do not rely on the knock sensor at all, we are actually relying on the Inlet air temp sensor to take away more timing under boost (hotter inlet air temps). We built a knock filter into the ACM just in case we had a problem with the blower adding noise to the car that the knock sensor might think is pre-ignition. So far we have not had to use this feature. We have been very successful on the TL supercharger kit by getting very close to 12.0 to 1 A/F ratio’s and not having any pre-ignition issues."
You're more than welcome to give us a call if you have any concerns in regards to this kit.
-Nate
I felt the need to forward this onto our tech department, here is the reply I received:
"By clamping the MAP sensor to 3.0 volts we keep the ECU from seeing too much boost and going into major timing retard mode (it does not throw a check engine light like the older cars). It also puts the ECU into the same map (timing and fuel map) location each time it goes into boost. With the ECU in the same place each time we get into boost (meaning the same injector millisecond and timing) we can then add injector milliseconds to in-rich the A/F mixture. By letting the factory ECU see some boost it takes away timing (this is the hard part finding how much boost to let the ECU see before it takes too much timing away or not enough). We do not rely on the knock sensor at all, we are actually relying on the Inlet air temp sensor to take away more timing under boost (hotter inlet air temps). We built a knock filter into the ACM just in case we had a problem with the blower adding noise to the car that the knock sensor might think is pre-ignition. So far we have not had to use this feature. We have been very successful on the TL supercharger kit by getting very close to 12.0 to 1 A/F ratio’s and not having any pre-ignition issues."
You're more than welcome to give us a call if you have any concerns in regards to this kit.
-Nate
CJ
11-23-2005, 07:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
Sounds very familar to what I was saying > MAP too high = timing retard
> Adds pulse width
> 12.0:1 AFR:
Obviously the only way to alter fuel without using a MAP clamp would be to add miliseconds to injector pulse width(the only other to achieve this without doing anything else is to raise the static fuel pressure).
Your still wrong about the correct AFR for a given set-up/ boost pressure.
Originally Posted by mrsteve
On the K-series, which I'm sure TeamXRSX is very familiar with, IAT is measured before the compressor so this method can't be used.
CJ
11-23-2005, 08:01 PM
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Nate how does the 3rd Gen perform with the supercharger?
I recently took the supercharger off my '03 6-Speed CL-S because it was hell on the tires; I just couldn't get traction. I had much better results with the '02 Automatic CL-S I had (295whp with your "high boost pulley", 13.30 @ 108 MPH
)
The supercharger on both cars (two different units) made an amazing difference in the way the car performed. It was like someone dropped a larger motor (with a ton more torque) into the engine bay. Very linear powerband.
I loved it and really miss it but it was in fact too much power on the 6-Speed (also with the high boost pulley) and I would roast the tires through 3rd gear even with upgraded rubber. 1st gear had traction until the upper RPMs but once I hit 2nd and then most of the time 3rd it was nothing but smoke. I've actually have an in car video showing massive amounts of spin in 2nd gear and a similar video in the automatic car with 100% traction.
You guys make great products and have teamed up with some great dealerships (Tischer Acura being my choice). As long as I own a Honda/Acura you've got a loyal customer
I recently took the supercharger off my '03 6-Speed CL-S because it was hell on the tires; I just couldn't get traction. I had much better results with the '02 Automatic CL-S I had (295whp with your "high boost pulley", 13.30 @ 108 MPH
) The supercharger on both cars (two different units) made an amazing difference in the way the car performed. It was like someone dropped a larger motor (with a ton more torque) into the engine bay. Very linear powerband.
I loved it and really miss it but it was in fact too much power on the 6-Speed (also with the high boost pulley) and I would roast the tires through 3rd gear even with upgraded rubber. 1st gear had traction until the upper RPMs but once I hit 2nd and then most of the time 3rd it was nothing but smoke. I've actually have an in car video showing massive amounts of spin in 2nd gear and a similar video in the automatic car with 100% traction.
You guys make great products and have teamed up with some great dealerships (Tischer Acura being my choice). As long as I own a Honda/Acura you've got a loyal customer
11-23-2005, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
Not really......i'm still not convinced about the ignition timing retard if MAP voltage goes over 3.0v w/no DTC and i was correct that the ACM does not have actual control over ignition timing.
And I admitted I was incorrect on the ignition timing control. However, using the IAT to retard timing is a perfectly acceptable and reliable solution in my opinion.
Obviously the only way to alter fuel without using a MAP clamp would be to add miliseconds to injector pulse width(the only other to achieve this without doing anything else is to raise the static fuel pressure).
Your still wrong about the correct AFR for a given set-up/ boost pressure.
Are you still saying that if a car tuned on the East coast in December will have the same AFR on the West coast in July?
IAT is measured before the CTSC yes, but it can be set-up differently depending on the set-up being run. Not to mention the k-series has a real aftermarket solution to tuning which does not relly on tricking the ECU.
Comptech engineered a very good alternative and did the best with what they could. What more do you want dude?
11-23-2005, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
I said the J32A2 has been tuned and found that 12.0:1 is the ideal AFR. Don't know what else you're implying I said.
Originally Posted by mrsteve
Are you still saying that if a car tuned on the East coast in December will have the same AFR on the West coast in July?
Now that we have that out of the way, what you are talking about is really irrlevant due to the fact that we are talking about how to tune the correct AFR, not what happens to the AFR if we drive from one climate to the next.
CJ
11-23-2005, 08:35 PM
#141
Originally Posted by Nate@Comptech
CJ,
I felt the need to forward this onto our tech department, here is the reply I received:
"By clamping the MAP sensor to 3.0 volts we keep the ECU from seeing too much boost and going into major timing retard mode (it does not throw a check engine light like the older cars). It also puts the ECU into the same map (timing and fuel map) location each time it goes into boost. With the ECU in the same place each time we get into boost (meaning the same injector millisecond and timing) we can then add injector milliseconds to in-rich the A/F mixture. By letting the factory ECU see some boost it takes away timing (this is the hard part finding how much boost to let the ECU see before it takes too much timing away or not enough). We do not rely on the knock sensor at all, we are actually relying on the Inlet air temp sensor to take away more timing under boost (hotter inlet air temps). We built a knock filter into the ACM just in case we had a problem with the blower adding noise to the car that the knock sensor might think is pre-ignition. So far we have not had to use this feature. We have been very successful on the TL supercharger kit by getting very close to 12.0 to 1 A/F ratio’s and not having any pre-ignition issues."
You're more than welcome to give us a call if you have any concerns in regards to this kit.
-Nate
I felt the need to forward this onto our tech department, here is the reply I received:
"By clamping the MAP sensor to 3.0 volts we keep the ECU from seeing too much boost and going into major timing retard mode (it does not throw a check engine light like the older cars). It also puts the ECU into the same map (timing and fuel map) location each time it goes into boost. With the ECU in the same place each time we get into boost (meaning the same injector millisecond and timing) we can then add injector milliseconds to in-rich the A/F mixture. By letting the factory ECU see some boost it takes away timing (this is the hard part finding how much boost to let the ECU see before it takes too much timing away or not enough). We do not rely on the knock sensor at all, we are actually relying on the Inlet air temp sensor to take away more timing under boost (hotter inlet air temps). We built a knock filter into the ACM just in case we had a problem with the blower adding noise to the car that the knock sensor might think is pre-ignition. So far we have not had to use this feature. We have been very successful on the TL supercharger kit by getting very close to 12.0 to 1 A/F ratio’s and not having any pre-ignition issues."
You're more than welcome to give us a call if you have any concerns in regards to this kit.
-Nate
11-23-2005, 08:42 PM
#142
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I understand everything you're saying. I believe we just did not initially understand each other. At this point it's best to drop it since we're beginning to ramble on into irrelevant topics.
11-23-2005, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Nate@Comptech
CJ,
I felt the need to forward this onto our tech department, here is the reply I received:
"By clamping the MAP sensor to 3.0 volts we keep the ECU from seeing too much boost and going into major timing retard mode (it does not throw a check engine light like the older cars). It also puts the ECU into the same map (timing and fuel map) location each time it goes into boost. With the ECU in the same place each time we get into boost (meaning the same injector millisecond and timing) we can then add injector milliseconds to in-rich the A/F mixture. By letting the factory ECU see some boost it takes away timing (this is the hard part finding how much boost to let the ECU see before it takes too much timing away or not enough). We do not rely on the knock sensor at all, we are actually relying on the Inlet air temp sensor to take away more timing under boost (hotter inlet air temps). We built a knock filter into the ACM just in case we had a problem with the blower adding noise to the car that the knock sensor might think is pre-ignition. So far we have not had to use this feature. We have been very successful on the TL supercharger kit by getting very close to 12.0 to 1 A/F ratio’s and not having any pre-ignition issues."
You're more than welcome to give us a call if you have any concerns in regards to this kit.
-Nate
I felt the need to forward this onto our tech department, here is the reply I received:
"By clamping the MAP sensor to 3.0 volts we keep the ECU from seeing too much boost and going into major timing retard mode (it does not throw a check engine light like the older cars). It also puts the ECU into the same map (timing and fuel map) location each time it goes into boost. With the ECU in the same place each time we get into boost (meaning the same injector millisecond and timing) we can then add injector milliseconds to in-rich the A/F mixture. By letting the factory ECU see some boost it takes away timing (this is the hard part finding how much boost to let the ECU see before it takes too much timing away or not enough). We do not rely on the knock sensor at all, we are actually relying on the Inlet air temp sensor to take away more timing under boost (hotter inlet air temps). We built a knock filter into the ACM just in case we had a problem with the blower adding noise to the car that the knock sensor might think is pre-ignition. So far we have not had to use this feature. We have been very successful on the TL supercharger kit by getting very close to 12.0 to 1 A/F ratio’s and not having any pre-ignition issues."
You're more than welcome to give us a call if you have any concerns in regards to this kit.
-Nate
CJ
11-23-2005, 08:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
I understand everything you're saying. I believe we just did not initially understand each other. At this point it's best to drop it since we're beginning to ramble on into irrelevant topics.
CJ
11-23-2005, 09:02 PM
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Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
Also, meant to ask...how are you guys going to retard ignition timing more for the advent of added boost pressure(i.e. raising boost pressures higher than 5psi?). The IAT trick will only work to such an extent. Also, say the engine does develop some pre-ignition(from over advanced ignition timing) or detonation(from lean AFRs)? With the knock sensor disabled(or even filtered) how will the ECU know to retard ignition timing to combat the knock?
CJ
CJ
Doubtful they will offer a higher boost option. They never officially offered a higher boost level for the previous gen kit and offered no guidance as to what adjustments would be needed. Additionally they claimed the warranty would be void. The vast majority of us owners still decided to buy the larger pulley knowing all of that. We did not need to make any adjustments to the MAP sensor voltage but we did need to increase static fuel pressure by roughly 4-5psi. (33-36psi in 20inHg, 60psi without vacuum). Fuel pressure rose at a rate of 12/1 (12psi of fuel pressure for 1psi of boost).
What I'm getting at is, with the new ACM set up, either a reflash would need to be available to compensate pulse width or if a rising rate fuel pressure regulator is included with the new kit static fuel pressure would need to be raised.
11-23-2005, 09:22 PM
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Originally Posted by mrsteve
I know this was aimed at the pros but...
Doubtful they will offer a higher boost option. They never officially offered a higher boost level for the previous gen kit and offered no guidance as to what adjustments would be needed. Additionally they claimed the warranty would be void. The vast majority of us owners still decided to buy the larger pulley knowing all of that. We did not need to make any adjustments to the MAP sensor voltage but we did need to increase static fuel pressure by roughly 4-5psi. (33-36psi in 20inHg, 60psi without vacuum). Fuel pressure rose at a rate of 12/1 (12psi of fuel pressure for 1psi of boost).
What I'm getting at is, with the new ACM set up, either a reflash would need to be available to compensate pulse width or if a rising rate fuel pressure regulator is included with the new kit static fuel pressure would need to be raised.
Doubtful they will offer a higher boost option. They never officially offered a higher boost level for the previous gen kit and offered no guidance as to what adjustments would be needed. Additionally they claimed the warranty would be void. The vast majority of us owners still decided to buy the larger pulley knowing all of that. We did not need to make any adjustments to the MAP sensor voltage but we did need to increase static fuel pressure by roughly 4-5psi. (33-36psi in 20inHg, 60psi without vacuum). Fuel pressure rose at a rate of 12/1 (12psi of fuel pressure for 1psi of boost).
What I'm getting at is, with the new ACM set up, either a reflash would need to be available to compensate pulse width or if a rising rate fuel pressure regulator is included with the new kit static fuel pressure would need to be raised.
This is pretty much exactly what i figured.....but we shall see. Raising static fuel pressure with a rising rate boost sensitive FPR is the easy part......it's the ignition timing issue that bothers me the most.
CJ
11-23-2005, 09:31 PM
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We never had issues with pings or knocks so long as 93 octane was used and the bypas valve actuator (which opens the butterfly valve creating a resonance effect within the manifold and thus increasing horsepower) was disabled. The change in horsepower between leaving the actuator active and disabled under boost was neglidgable. On a N/A motor it obviously made a big difference.
The J32A3 also has this bypas valve and butterfly valve within the manifold. No adjustments should be required with the kit as supplied by Comptech.
Another way to avoid the ping issue would be to use the e-manage and add some fuel where the valve opens and compensate for the resonance. Again, I'm rambling off topic
The J32A3 also has this bypas valve and butterfly valve within the manifold. No adjustments should be required with the kit as supplied by Comptech.
Another way to avoid the ping issue would be to use the e-manage and add some fuel where the valve opens and compensate for the resonance. Again, I'm rambling off topic
11-24-2005, 02:06 AM
#148
Cold Racketeer
mrsteve, please elaborate on Tischer Acura and comptech? This is my dealer and service center! I am debating the supercharger, and now I'm interested to hear my dealer mentioned. Is there a possibility they will service my car under warranty/accept the supercharged car for a trade in more easily than other dealers? So far my experience for normal service and requests for help has been "average" I have never had a supercharger before, so I am reluctant to do anything that will make the car lose a lot of resale value.
11-24-2005, 07:05 AM
#149
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dynos out for our supercharger. 60-65 hp at wheels. here is the link http://www.comptechusa.com/store/new...ercharger.html
11-24-2005, 07:39 AM
#150
Originally Posted by againstallodds1
dynos out for our supercharger. 60-65 hp at wheels. here is the link http://www.comptechusa.com/store/new...ercharger.html
Nice link! Looks like you're getting more than just a supercharger. New ACM for VTEC early start, added fuel supply, etc. Also comes with new Intake kit so in reality, you are paying for all the extra benefits up front and the S/C kit shouldnt be looked at just a Supercharger only. Great link bro! Love those graphs too.
11-24-2005, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by invincible569
Nice link! Looks like you're getting more than just a supercharger. New ACM for VTEC early start, added fuel supply, etc. Also comes with new Intake kit so in reality, you are paying for all the extra benefits up front and the S/C kit shouldnt be looked at just a Supercharger only. Great link bro! Love those graphs too.
Also, because of the design of the supercharger and the fact that it replaces the stock airbox and intake system, the comptech SC kit would need to have a new intake system to replace the stock intake or else the CTSC set-up would not be complete without a new intake.
You are correct though, i think it's a great value and it will perform great!!
CJ
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
11-24-2005, 11:11 AM
#152
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Originally Posted by tzakiel
mrsteve, please elaborate on Tischer Acura and comptech? This is my dealer and service center! I am debating the supercharger, and now I'm interested to hear my dealer mentioned. Is there a possibility they will service my car under warranty/accept the supercharged car for a trade in more easily than other dealers? So far my experience for normal service and requests for help has been "average" I have never had a supercharger before, so I am reluctant to do anything that will make the car lose a lot of resale value.
There's more than a possibility, it's a slam dunk that they'll still warranty the car and supercharger. They have a newer policy though that if you want them to install and warranty the blower you must purchase the blower from them. This is completely fair IMO because they know the blower kit will be complete and brand new unlike some other kits people have brought to them in the past. Ask for Lenny Sauro, he's the service manager. Tell him your interested and also tell him you currently can buy it online from another vendor for $3950 shipped. He should match the price. Tischer has always taken care of me in the past. They've covered quite a few things for me under warranty that they shouldn't have. Although, I have spent thousands in just Comptech parts in their shop so I'm sure that has something to do with it.
11-24-2005, 12:21 PM
#153
Cold Racketeer
Originally Posted by mrsteve
There's more than a possibility, it's a slam dunk that they'll still warranty the car and supercharger. They have a newer policy though that if you want them to install and warranty the blower you must purchase the blower from them. This is completely fair IMO because they know the blower kit will be complete and brand new unlike some other kits people have brought to them in the past. Ask for Lenny Sauro, he's the service manager. Tell him your interested and also tell him you currently can buy it online from another vendor for $3950 shipped. He should match the price. Tischer has always taken care of me in the past. They've covered quite a few things for me under warranty that they shouldn't have. Although, I have spent thousands in just Comptech parts in their shop so I'm sure that has something to do with it.
11-24-2005, 12:28 PM
#154
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The good thing about all Comptech kits is you can uninstall them and the car will look 100% stock. You'd never know by looking at my engine bay that I ever had a supercharger installed.
Also, Jimmy the shop foreman, is the guy that does all the installs. He knows his shit. It's amazing how many installs they did this year. I think they did at least 6 NSX supercharger installs, plus a few TL's CL's and RSX's
Also, Jimmy the shop foreman, is the guy that does all the installs. He knows his shit. It's amazing how many installs they did this year. I think they did at least 6 NSX supercharger installs, plus a few TL's CL's and RSX's
11-24-2005, 12:48 PM
#156
Cold Racketeer
So if I got them on the phone tomorrow, when might I be able to get the blower installed? I must be out of my mind, this is a major mod but exciting. I know there must be some wait because of the release of the blower being so recent, but maybe dealers got them sooner?
11-24-2005, 01:56 PM
#158
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Originally Posted by TCMS
It's too bad I'm surrounded by retarded dealerships in Chicago.
Yeah...
I don't think I'd trust any of our dealers installed this kit, too many variables for them to mess up. I think there is a shop in Schaumburg that has done one before, but I can't seem to remember the name. Comptech may be able to recommend a local installer. If I had the money to throw around I'd be over this kit, good numbers and good deal by Excelerate.
11-24-2005, 03:05 PM
#159
Originally Posted by mrsteve
The good thing about all Comptech kits is you can uninstall them and the car will look 100% stock. You'd never know by looking at my engine bay that I ever had a supercharger installed.
Also, Jimmy the shop foreman, is the guy that does all the installs. He knows his shit. It's amazing how many installs they did this year. I think they did at least 6 NSX supercharger installs, plus a few TL's CL's and RSX's
Also, Jimmy the shop foreman, is the guy that does all the installs. He knows his shit. It's amazing how many installs they did this year. I think they did at least 6 NSX supercharger installs, plus a few TL's CL's and RSX's
11-24-2005, 08:42 PM
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Originally Posted by invincible569
Actually.... this one may not be the same since they specify you have to cut out certain small parts in order for it to fit properly.
There's a ton more plastic trim covers under the hood on the TL than previous cars Comptech has made kits for. These trim covers need to be cut in minor areas. When you go to take the blower off and sell the car you could easily and cheaply replace those panels.