Comptech Supercharger: Official Info thread.
#41
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by Pro Stock John
If this kit adds a lot of power, and the stock injectors don't have much room to grow, then you will need bigger injectors. My guess is that this kit would include bigger injectors and a reflash program to recal your pcm to get the injectors to idle properly, and to tune the combo.
Might need to hotwire the fuel pump, or go bigger. I'm sure a 2003 CL or TL guy would be a useful source on how their kits work, this one would be marginally diferrent unless the 2004-2005 has some big change.
Might need to hotwire the fuel pump, or go bigger. I'm sure a 2003 CL or TL guy would be a useful source on how their kits work, this one would be marginally diferrent unless the 2004-2005 has some big change.
To the best of my knowledge stock injectors will be used. A rising rate fuel pressure regulator will be used to squeeze more fuel through the stock injectors during their intended from the factory cycling. Fuel pressure raises from 50psi at WOT to 100psi at WOT with the new fuel pressure regulator; as psi increases fuel pressure increases. This does introduce the possibility for long-long-long term reliability issues with the stock injectors because we are pushing twice the pressure through them as they were designed for. But no one has had issues with this in the 2nd Gen CL/TL kit.
Or, Comptech could completely change that for the new kit. It is possible to modify the stock injectors to flow more fuel. They've already done it for the TSX and RSX injectors; increasing flow from 310cc to 520cc. Since the new ACM has the ability to control injector pulse width it would be possible to maintain a factory like drivability for normal driving and then crank up the pulse width when you're under boost.
I do not know which route Comptech is going to go for this new kit. Modifying stock injectors is much safer that relying on a rising rate fuel pressure regulator to increase fuel delivery. Also, the FPR has been known to fail on a few occasions.
A higher flow fuel pump (Walbro 255lph) will be included.
#43
What size and impedence are the stock injectors for the 3G TL? Would the impedence change if the injector size was altered? I know that on my Integra I had to get a resistor pack to accomadate for difference in high to low impedence injector type. I have no problems using the stock injectors with the S/C as long as they are not running any where near 100% duty cycle. However I'd probably have them flow tested just in case and so with them out and the cost to perform that test I guess new injectors wouldn't be too far fetched. It's just that with different size injectors I worry about possible issues with the driveability tune.
#46
Car Addict
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Chicago (Lincoln Square)
Posts: 843
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
But the 2004-2006 TL kit might just be a few small changes from the previous generation kit.
If they don't provide bigger injectors, maybe the stock ones have a lot of room left in 'em.
If they don't provide bigger injectors, maybe the stock ones have a lot of room left in 'em.
#51
Iro Ridg .308
hell yeah baby, an extra 60hp on top of the lil extra from the exhaust is exactly what this car needs. Not too crazy, but definitely going to make this car much more fun to drive. Deposit is going in......add me to the list.
#52
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (1)
I'm going to try and organize a Groupbuy for this Supercharger Kit. MSRP is $4495 but I am checking prices now. I will be following through on this and it will be an actual Groupbuy in the sense that I will need deposits and a list of a few people before the order is placed with Comptech.
#55
Iro Ridg .308
way to jump the gun on this one excelerate. Well, at least now I won't feel so bad holding on to the money order I was just about to send out today for the UR pulley!
May have to put my deposit in with you!
Man, looking at the dynos, we're almost hitting 300 at the rear wheels for an auto!
This car is gonna be a blast and to think I had a couple of passengers last week tell me the car felt pretty quick with the intake and exhaust.
May have to put my deposit in with you!
Man, looking at the dynos, we're almost hitting 300 at the rear wheels for an auto!
This car is gonna be a blast and to think I had a couple of passengers last week tell me the car felt pretty quick with the intake and exhaust.
#56
With no programmable ECU support, it will be hard to get the most out of this mod using just a AFC device that i'm sure will be provided by Comptech to regulate AFRs by tricking the MAP sensor(which BTW, is not a complete or effecient fix for tuning a forced induction mod on a Naturally aspirated engine).
Doug from Hondata has confirmed on many occasions with me that there is no plans in the near furture for a programmable ECU or even a ECU reflash for the J32A3 engine or any J series varient.
Giving the fact that the J32A3's ignition timing is already tuned aggresively from the factory, it will be interesting to see how Comptech will get around this issue with out taking full control over ignition timing (and i don't mean using an AFC device).
I will keep lobying my good friends at Hondata for more support on the J32A3, but ultimatly, it is in their hands as they are pretty busy with the K-series developments of late.
CJ
Doug from Hondata has confirmed on many occasions with me that there is no plans in the near furture for a programmable ECU or even a ECU reflash for the J32A3 engine or any J series varient.
Giving the fact that the J32A3's ignition timing is already tuned aggresively from the factory, it will be interesting to see how Comptech will get around this issue with out taking full control over ignition timing (and i don't mean using an AFC device).
I will keep lobying my good friends at Hondata for more support on the J32A3, but ultimatly, it is in their hands as they are pretty busy with the K-series developments of late.
CJ
#57
Iro Ridg .308
goodnight GS430, IS350??, G35??. Question marks by the IS and G since owners of these cars maybe more into tuning versus the market/niche that buys into the 430....
Will this be enough to keep up with a stock M3 latest generation?
Will this be enough to keep up with a stock M3 latest generation?
#58
Iro Ridg .308
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
With no programmable ECU support, it will be hard to get the most out of this mod using just a AFC device that i'm sure will be provided by Comptech to regulate AFRs by tricking the MAP sensor(which BTW, is not a complete or effecient fix for tuning a forced induction mod on a Naturally aspirated engine).
Doug from Hondata has confirmed on many occasions with me that there is no plans in the near furture for a programmable ECU or even a ECU reflash for the J32A3 engine or any J series varient.
Giving the fact that the J32A3's ignition timing is already tuned aggresively from the factory, it will be interesting to see how Comptech will get around this issue with out taking full control over ignition timing (and i don't mean using an AFC device).
I will keep lobying my good friends at Hondata for more support on the J32A3, but ultimatly, it is in their hands as they are pretty busy with the K-series developments of late.
CJ
Doug from Hondata has confirmed on many occasions with me that there is no plans in the near furture for a programmable ECU or even a ECU reflash for the J32A3 engine or any J series varient.
Giving the fact that the J32A3's ignition timing is already tuned aggresively from the factory, it will be interesting to see how Comptech will get around this issue with out taking full control over ignition timing (and i don't mean using an AFC device).
I will keep lobying my good friends at Hondata for more support on the J32A3, but ultimatly, it is in their hands as they are pretty busy with the K-series developments of late.
CJ
Yeah, that's the only thing I hate about this car being available to the usa and canada only. Have to rely on local outfits like comptech to come out with anything.
This isn't so bad, since at least someone is doing it but we would have much more aftermarket support if this model were available overseas. Sometime I wonder if I should just trade up for the RL/legend.
Maybe if Hondata sees and realizes, "hey, if comptech can come up with a solution and still make good margins so why can't we?", I can't see why it would be such a big issue with an outfit such as Hondata who probably has much more engineering resources and funding to make something? Like Excelerate mentioned earlier, there are 25+ kits already pre-ordered for the SC and I'm sure these people would be really interested in an ECU upgrade from Hondata.
In the meantime, I'm sure I can still be happy with "only" an extra 60 whp.
#59
Originally Posted by special-ed
goodnight GS430, IS350??, G35??. Question marks by the IS and G since owners of these cars maybe more into tuning versus the market/niche that buys into the 430....
Will this be enough to keep up with a stock M3 latest generation?
Will this be enough to keep up with a stock M3 latest generation?
CJ
#61
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
This will most likely depend on what can be extracted by the boost levels that the CTSC will be providing the engine. If there was a way i could dyno tune the engine from scratch, i gaurantee that i could extract alot more power from the engine at the same boost level than if you just used a AFC device to regulate AFRs(Air Fuel Ratios) by manipulating the MAP sensor which in turn manipulates the injector pulse width(which allows for semi-precise tuning of the AFR). Problems do occur when using this option to tune. If you guys like, i can go into this further in my next post.
CJ
CJ
Comptech isn't using an AFC. They're using their own ACM which controls VTEC change over, pulse width, ignition timing, and MAP signal. Of course a custom tune specific to the vehicle would provide some more gains but that isn't in the cards here.
#63
Originally Posted by special-ed
Yeah, that's the only thing I hate about this car being available to the usa and canada only. Have to rely on local outfits like comptech to come out with anything.
This isn't so bad, since at least someone is doing it but we would have much more aftermarket support if this model were available overseas. Sometime I wonder if I should just trade up for the RL/legend.
Maybe if Hondata sees and realizes, "hey, if comptech can come up with a solution and still make good margins so why can't we?", I can't see why it would be such a big issue with an outfit such as Hondata who probably has much more engineering resources and funding to make something? Like Excelerate mentioned earlier, there are 25+ kits already pre-ordered for the SC and I'm sure these people would be really interested in an ECU upgrade from Hondata.
In the meantime, I'm sure I can still be happy with "only" an extra 60 whp.
This isn't so bad, since at least someone is doing it but we would have much more aftermarket support if this model were available overseas. Sometime I wonder if I should just trade up for the RL/legend.
Maybe if Hondata sees and realizes, "hey, if comptech can come up with a solution and still make good margins so why can't we?", I can't see why it would be such a big issue with an outfit such as Hondata who probably has much more engineering resources and funding to make something? Like Excelerate mentioned earlier, there are 25+ kits already pre-ordered for the SC and I'm sure these people would be really interested in an ECU upgrade from Hondata.
In the meantime, I'm sure I can still be happy with "only" an extra 60 whp.
Also, keep in mind that every ECU Honda makes for every different run of engine series usually uses a different type of ECU......it would be very diffecult to reverse engineer ever single ECU honda uses. Not to mention, Honda is famous for changing the genetic make-up of a givin' ECU from one year to the next, as we have seen with the k-series ECU's. Basically the same engine, but two completly different ECU's from 02/04-05/06.
I will say this, taping into the J32A3 ECU will be alot easier than the work they did to reverse engineer the popular k-series' ECU's. Mostly due to the fact that the J32A3 does not have VTC(Variable Timing Control) or in laymens terms, variable intake cam phasing as the k-series does. This is what puts the "i" in i-VTEC. For anybody that has used the Hondata K-pro ECU, you will know that it is very complex, as is the engine it is controling. With the J32A3(or any j-series engine) you have alot less variables to tune.......it's actually just like tuning any VTEC engine(d-series, b-series, h-series...ect.) using Hondata's S100/S200 software, expect you have 6 cylinders instead of 4 among other things.
Nonetheless, i will continue to lobby Hondata for something for the J32A3 down the line.
CJ
#64
Originally Posted by mrsteve
Comptech isn't using an AFC. They're using their own ACM which controls VTEC change over, pulse width, ignition timing, and MAP signal.
CJ
#65
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
Could you please go into further detail for us?
CJ
CJ
There is no end-user adjustability. Think of it as a piggyback controller/reflash.
Originally Posted by www.Comptechusa.com
Kit will come with Comptech's new ACM (Advanced Control Module) to add fuel in boost, lower VTEC (RPM to 4000 from 4800), and clamp MAP sensor voltage (@3.0 volts). ACM will come with jumper harness for the majority of its connections, but you will have to cut and solder 4 wires.
#66
Iro Ridg .308
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
I am pretty close to Hondata and understand their thinking on this.......
CJ
CJ
#67
Originally Posted by mrsteve
There is no end-user adjustability. Think of it as a piggyback controller/reflash.
You cannot run the same amount of ignition timing on a boosted engine that you can on the same engine, but in naturally aspirated form. Releying on the knock sensor to retard ignition timing for you is a clever little trick, but is not safe at all.
CJ
#68
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
Nonetheless, i will continue to lobby Hondata for something for the J32A3 down the line.
CJ
CJ
The e-Manage is our only proven option. It'll work fine for boosted applications (ignition timing retard, pulse width, MAP voltage clamp) but for N/A cars it won't do much if anything at all on the J-Series because we couldn't get it to advance timing.
#69
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
OK.....this is a MAP sensor clamp.....this is what is considered an AFC......AFC stands for Air Flow Converter....AKA MAP sensor clamp. It works by altering fuel by manipulating the MAP sensor voltage to the stock ECU. It needs to do this to run with larger injectors, otherwise the car would run far too rich. This causes the ECU to lookup data from parts of the maps where ignition is more advanced and uses the knock sensor to retard ignition timing when the presence of knock is heard.
You cannot run the same amount of ignition timing on a boosted engine that you can on the same engine, but in naturally aspirated form. Releying on the knock sensor to retard ignition timing for you is a clever little trick, but is not safe at all.
CJ
You cannot run the same amount of ignition timing on a boosted engine that you can on the same engine, but in naturally aspirated form. Releying on the knock sensor to retard ignition timing for you is a clever little trick, but is not safe at all.
CJ
You don't need to explain what a MAP voltage clamp is to me
But it's more than just a signal clamp. That's what their ESM did. Their ACM does much more and they are trying to use it on the '05 RSX kit but with the K-pro out for that now it isn't really required IMO, even though the '05+ K-pro is kinda a hack-job.
#70
Originally Posted by special-ed
Yeah and I can totally understand their take and also, if we're talking an extra $1k+ for just another 5 HP then I wouldn't even consider it especially since after this SC mod, there really isn't much we can do unless we plan on totally gutting the engine.
CJ
#71
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
it would absolutly be worth it for you running a SC, to have a programable ECU, it may not be worth it for the guy that has a intake and exhaust. For the SC guy, you will unlock alot more power by using a fully programable ECU for your engine, as every engine is different and needs to have a custom tune specificaly for that engine to unlock it's fullest potential. But for the guy with I/E....the power difference may only be 5-10whp...which may not be worth the 1k+ price for a ECu like this. Also keep in mind that the J32A3's ignition timing is already tuned pretty aggresive in the stock form.....this is another thing that scares me about using an AFC device on the J32A3 in Forced Induction form.
CJ
CJ
Again, it's not an AFC. It does much more than controlling air flow/fuel trim.
#72
Originally Posted by mrsteve
You don't need to explain what a MAP voltage clamp is to me
But it's more than just a signal clamp. That's what their ESM did. Their ACM does much more and they are trying to use it on the '05 RSX kit but with the K-pro out for that now it isn't really required IMO, even though the '05+ K-pro is kinda a hack-job.
But it's more than just a signal clamp. That's what their ESM did. Their ACM does much more and they are trying to use it on the '05 RSX kit but with the K-pro out for that now it isn't really required IMO, even though the '05+ K-pro is kinda a hack-job.
CJ
#73
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
And Comptech doesn't manipulate the MAP signal to control fuel. That's very dangerous because it requires very high fuel pressure levels to lean the mixture out. The MAP signal clamp is to prevent the ECU from retarding ignition timing. Even having the clamp off by 0.01+v will affect the way the car drives.
#74
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
Then, please explain thier "ACM" in more detail....because..in my professional opinion, it's nothing more than an AFC, unless you can come up with details as to why i should not call it that.
CJ
CJ
It can DIRECTLY control pulse width which is something a typical AFC, such as the popular Apex'i product, can't do.
It is much more advanced that what we used on the previous-gen kit which was strictly a voltage clamp.
#75
Originally Posted by mrsteve
And Comptech doesn't manipulate the MAP signal to control fuel. That's very dangerous because it requires very high fuel pressure levels to lean the mixture out. The MAP signal clamp is to prevent the ECU from retarding ignition timing. Even having the clamp off by 0.01+v will affect the way the car drives.
You want to retard ignition timing in boost.....not advance it. No offense, but what you are saying makes no sense....again no offense.
CJ
#77
Originally Posted by mrsteve
It can DIRECTLY control pulse width which is something a typical AFC, such as the popular Apex'i product, can't do.
CJ
#78
Team Owner
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Leesburg, Virginia
Age: 41
Posts: 36,474
Received 249 Likes
on
175 Posts
Originally Posted by TeamXRSX
You want to retard ignition timing in boost.....not advance it. No offense, but what you are saying makes no sense....again no offense.
CJ
CJ
Sigh. I'm talking SERIOUS amounts of ignition retard. Like to the point where the car is making ~100whp and not drivable.
Of course you want to retard ignition timing under boost, but there's enough fuel that timing doesn't need to be retarded. Timing stays as if the car was still N/A. The traditional ESM (Comptech's MAP signal clamp) could only do this. It's a mute point though because the ACM is completely different.