Big bore throttle body pics 08 tl s
02-21-2009, 10:00 PM
#41
Man of God.....
02-22-2009, 09:46 AM
#42
Burning Brakes
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You should be fine. Check my mod list. I am fine N/A on fuel. If any gasket it smaller than the bore than it too should be opened up. That makes it easy.
02-25-2009, 09:57 AM
#43
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
From 66.88 to 70mm those are some big numbers.
Surface Area of T/B Opening:
pi*r2^2 = 3.1416*0.07^2 = 0.015394
pi*r1^2 = 3.1416*0.06688^2 = 0.014052
0.015394 / 0.014052 * 100 = 109.547
which is roughly 9.55% increase in surface area increase.
The increased Volume of T/B:
V=pi*h*r^2
[pi*h*r2^2] / [pi*h*r1^2] * 100 = (70^2 / 66.88^2) *100 = 109.547
which is 9.55% greater volume. The two relationships are the same since the depth of the T/B wasn't changed. I wonder how that changes the MAP input. Pressure is inversely proportional to Volume, so you increase volume you decrease pressure. If you want to do some math on the spacers just use the same equation but put in the depth of the spacer for h / height.
Surface Area of T/B Opening:
pi*r2^2 = 3.1416*0.07^2 = 0.015394
pi*r1^2 = 3.1416*0.06688^2 = 0.014052
0.015394 / 0.014052 * 100 = 109.547
which is roughly 9.55% increase in surface area increase.
The increased Volume of T/B:
V=pi*h*r^2
[pi*h*r2^2] / [pi*h*r1^2] * 100 = (70^2 / 66.88^2) *100 = 109.547
which is 9.55% greater volume. The two relationships are the same since the depth of the T/B wasn't changed. I wonder how that changes the MAP input. Pressure is inversely proportional to Volume, so you increase volume you decrease pressure. If you want to do some math on the spacers just use the same equation but put in the depth of the spacer for h / height.
03-03-2009, 09:02 AM
#45
Safety Car
nice very nice....Im more than sure it does affect the AF mix, it has too...the spacers change the mix and so does the intake y wouldnt the bore?.... what Im wondering is what the weight on the butterfly has to be now to compensate for the bigger bore.
03-03-2009, 10:07 AM
#48
Safety Car
ok so if all the math is correct you increased velocity pressure from 146.52 to 153.36.....and the constant velocity went from 104.67 to 109.55 if the throttle body plate is configured correctly.....everything else was pretty much the same only like 100thousandth of a point on a few values.
03-03-2009, 10:15 AM
#49
Team Owner
From 66.88 to 70mm those are some big numbers.
Surface Area of T/B Opening:
pi*r2^2 = 3.1416*0.07^2 = 0.015394
pi*r1^2 = 3.1416*0.06688^2 = 0.014052
0.015394 / 0.014052 * 100 = 109.547
which is roughly 9.55% increase in surface area increase.
The increased Volume of T/B:
V=pi*h*r^2
[pi*h*r2^2] / [pi*h*r1^2] * 100 = (70^2 / 66.88^2) *100 = 109.547
which is 9.55% greater volume. The two relationships are the same since the depth of the T/B wasn't changed. I wonder how that changes the MAP input. Pressure is inversely proportional to Volume, so you increase volume you decrease pressure. If you want to do some math on the spacers just use the same equation but put in the depth of the spacer for h / height.
Surface Area of T/B Opening:
pi*r2^2 = 3.1416*0.07^2 = 0.015394
pi*r1^2 = 3.1416*0.06688^2 = 0.014052
0.015394 / 0.014052 * 100 = 109.547
which is roughly 9.55% increase in surface area increase.
The increased Volume of T/B:
V=pi*h*r^2
[pi*h*r2^2] / [pi*h*r1^2] * 100 = (70^2 / 66.88^2) *100 = 109.547
which is 9.55% greater volume. The two relationships are the same since the depth of the T/B wasn't changed. I wonder how that changes the MAP input. Pressure is inversely proportional to Volume, so you increase volume you decrease pressure. If you want to do some math on the spacers just use the same equation but put in the depth of the spacer for h / height.
It will act sort of like that sprint booster thing, only more subtle.
You will get more airflow sooner in the pedal travel.
You will have less manifold pressure at a given throttle opening but it will be no different than the stock throttlebody being cracked open a little more.
03-03-2009, 10:22 AM
#50
Safety Car
I hate cars you are absolutely correct dude!!!! lol the numbers dont lie....i mean basically if you look and compare nothing really changed except air delivery is more rapid. and manifold pressure actually increased by .1 but thats so insignificant it wont effect anything.
03-03-2009, 10:45 AM
#52
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
It won't affect a/f values except for WOT. And that's assuming the car can use the extra air at wot.
It will act sort of like that sprint booster thing, only more subtle.
You will get more airflow sooner in the pedal travel.
You will have less manifold pressure at a given throttle opening but it will be no different than the stock throttlebody being cracked open a little more.
It will act sort of like that sprint booster thing, only more subtle.
You will get more airflow sooner in the pedal travel.
You will have less manifold pressure at a given throttle opening but it will be no different than the stock throttlebody being cracked open a little more.
03-03-2009, 10:59 AM
#53
Safety Car
majo it tends to run leaner as Air is added and if the exhaust isnt modded to compensate. if the exhaust is modded it will compensate correctly because of the O2 sensors telling it to dump more fuel.
03-03-2009, 11:05 AM
#54
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
What if you take out the cats?
03-03-2009, 11:15 AM
#55
Safety Car
itll balance out... the way i have it on my car is like this..... intake... aem v1...outlaw throttle spacer...outlaw manifold spacer.... then my car started acting funny and running lean.... you can feel it not dumping fuel in the high end....so it was throwing cat n O2 sensor CELs... so i figured screw it lemme do the cat deletes n see if it works....well it balanced out everything i have no more codes n it feels alive again dumping a lot of fuel when it needs it and when it doesnt its very tame...im actually getting better mileage around the city too....before i was getting 16 now its 18....i put about 1000 miles on the precat deletes and still no CELs....the computer stays within certain parameters that honda programmed so that it runs correctly with the right amount of fuel and air with a little deviation from stock A/F mix.
03-03-2009, 11:20 AM
#56
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
very interesting.. what do think made the most difference the spacer in the intake manifold or the t/b? Your mileage is ridiculous.. 16-18.. what is your average mpg & speed?
03-03-2009, 12:34 PM
#58
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Sounds like a lot of city miles. Right now I'm at 22 mpg / 27 mph. I need to clean my air filter though. My tire pressure has been yo-yo'ing over the up and down temps here too. I would assume the controls are trying to maintain a/f mixture so it's probably compensating with more fuel out the pipe.. but I'm guessing this occurs more towards full throttle..
03-18-2009, 10:49 AM
#61
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
I just picked up a TB. Not sure if I'm going to bore it out.. I'm thinking of a couple different things.
03-19-2009, 09:24 AM
#62
Man of God.....
03-19-2009, 10:05 AM
#63
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
Not sure yet.. We're going over the pros & cons..
for instance.. would turbulence created at the TB dissipate drastically in the intake manifold? If not.. then how can we effectively introduce turbulent channels that would increase the laminar flow through the intake manifold..
Heat manifests itself everywhere.. so I'm trying to consider how much of a difference these thermo spacers actually help if any since heat radiation will eventually equalize neighboring components.. and if coating the TB would help at all.. or would the air flow neutralize the TB temp.
Just setting some gears in motion to come up with the most effective mod.
03-19-2009, 10:43 AM
#64
^ Nice nice nice!
I don't understand your approach with introducing turbulent flow to increase laminar flow. Please explain since it peaks my curiosity.
Also, when you mention thermo spacers, are you refering to the P2R TBS? I agree with you that once heat soaked, it would seem that the benefits of this spacer are negated.
What would you coat the TB in and how?
I don't understand your approach with introducing turbulent flow to increase laminar flow. Please explain since it peaks my curiosity.
Also, when you mention thermo spacers, are you refering to the P2R TBS? I agree with you that once heat soaked, it would seem that the benefits of this spacer are negated.
What would you coat the TB in and how?
03-19-2009, 04:06 PM
#65
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
^ Nice nice nice!
I don't understand your approach with introducing turbulent flow to increase laminar flow. Please explain since it peaks my curiosity.
Also, when you mention thermo spacers, are you refering to the P2R TBS? I agree with you that once heat soaked, it would seem that the benefits of this spacer are negated.
What would you coat the TB in and how?
I don't understand your approach with introducing turbulent flow to increase laminar flow. Please explain since it peaks my curiosity.
Also, when you mention thermo spacers, are you refering to the P2R TBS? I agree with you that once heat soaked, it would seem that the benefits of this spacer are negated.
What would you coat the TB in and how?
Coating the TB is a thought.. and input is welcome. The purpose would to reduce the friction of air flow on the walls and to reduce heat transfer to incoming air. Teflon? Ceramic? idk.. basically trying to figure out some low cost beneficial tweaks to the TB. I don't think any mod on the TB is straightforward because the input may not be linear to the output. The goal is not trying to turn this into a low 13 second car or put down +25 whp.. c'mon.. lol.. claims like that are snake oil.
03-19-2009, 09:04 PM
#66
Team Owner
Disassemble & polish.. and coat.. my old school gearhead buddy suggests creating turbulent channels. Also thinking about a slight mod on the butterfly valve that would increase throttle intake.
Not sure yet.. We're going over the pros & cons..
for instance.. would turbulence created at the TB dissipate drastically in the intake manifold? If not.. then how can we effectively introduce turbulent channels that would increase the laminar flow through the intake manifold..
Heat manifests itself everywhere.. so I'm trying to consider how much of a difference these thermo spacers actually help if any since heat radiation will eventually equalize neighboring components.. and if coating the TB would help at all.. or would the air flow neutralize the TB temp.
Just setting some gears in motion to come up with the most effective mod.
Not sure yet.. We're going over the pros & cons..
for instance.. would turbulence created at the TB dissipate drastically in the intake manifold? If not.. then how can we effectively introduce turbulent channels that would increase the laminar flow through the intake manifold..
Heat manifests itself everywhere.. so I'm trying to consider how much of a difference these thermo spacers actually help if any since heat radiation will eventually equalize neighboring components.. and if coating the TB would help at all.. or would the air flow neutralize the TB temp.
Just setting some gears in motion to come up with the most effective mod.
With turbulence, you don't want it in the intake tract of a fuel injected car. It was beneficial in carbureted cars, keeping the air/fuel in suspension. The only place you want turbulence is in the combustion chamber and the throttlebody won't make a difference.
Coatings would not help in such a short area. The air is moving very fast through the TB and it doesn't have much surface area. I would disconnect coolant flow and call it a day.
You can take a dremel and put a knife edge on the inlet of the TB where the intake pipe clamps on. You can also knife edge the throttle blade. Just don't take any material off the diameter of the blade. You may also check the transition from TB to intake manifold.
I've experimented with my intercooler piping where it transitions to silicone and then back to metal and when high pressure water flows through it, with the dull metal edges it creates tons of turbulence which is not good. With them knife edged it makes a huge difference.
03-24-2009, 08:34 AM
#67
Man of God.....
Looky looky 
http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-222320.aspx
Another important piece! Yes, this does fit the 3.2 TL!! So with this piece and the TB ported. All I would need would be the TB heat spacer to get reamed! Right....
http://store.excelerateperformance.c.../i-222320.aspx
Another important piece! Yes, this does fit the 3.2 TL!! So with this piece and the TB ported. All I would need would be the TB heat spacer to get reamed! Right....
03-24-2009, 08:52 AM
#68
Safety Car
the ported runners would be great for a blown motor......much more benefit to it....plus the A/F would have to be tuned big time after that...no idea how much benefit there would be for the N/A motors....im sure theres an increase of power......id like to see some lower end torque.
03-24-2009, 04:19 PM
#69
Man of God.....
?
"plus the A/F would have to be tuned big time after that..."
So what are you saying Tripnbeats? New fuel rails, reg, pump?
I feel the pinch on my wallet already....
So what are you saying Tripnbeats? New fuel rails, reg, pump?
I feel the pinch on my wallet already....
07-22-2009, 09:20 AM
#70
Burning Brakes
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Ok so to revive this thread for a sec.. Intake bore on T/B and plenum on a gen 4 Shawd is a HUGE 76mm! I am going to attempt to bolt this set up on later today and see how it feels. This intake bore is so big my stock type s fits INSIDE it! Gonna be interesting!
07-22-2009, 09:33 AM
#71
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)
07-22-2009, 09:40 AM
#72
Burning Brakes
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I have pics and side by side size comparisons. It makes the stock type s tb look like a civic tb side by side. On paper I am almost 100 percent sure on the interchange. I am anxious to see how it FEELS. I will need to fab a new CAI connection if I decide to stay with it. I am just gonna set it (CAI) inside the larger bore for now. It will fit. I am stunned that there is a 10mm bore difference!! Its crazy. I am gonna drop the entire plenum and t/b set up on my car and see how it goes. Ill let you all know..
10-13-2009, 02:41 PM
#77
Burning Brakes
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Sorry guys. I think I posted the results in another thread. The car SUCKED. Just too much air. On and off the bottle. Pulled ok up top but took wayyyy to long to get there. Whole thing was counterproductive. Now the plenum spacer on the other hand.....WOW!! That was worth its weight in gold for sure!
10-13-2009, 02:53 PM
#79
Chapter Leader (Southern Region)