Auto trans upgrade
11-30-2010, 09:38 PM
#41
Former Sponsor
I will definitely keep everyone posted. Sorry to hear about your engine, hopefully its just a ring land.
12-13-2010, 08:47 PM
#42
Former Sponsor
I received my Alto rebuild kit this week. Only the low, first and second clutches are the high energy green third, fourth and fifth are OEM style paper clutches. I am looking into get some Raybestos frictions to compare. I will start a thread once I get the tranny out.
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snitko23 (01-21-2019)
12-13-2010, 09:23 PM
#43
Team Owner
I received my Alto rebuild kit this week. Only the low, first and second clutches are the high energy green third, fourth and fifth are OEM style paper clutches. I am looking into get some Raybestos frictions to compare. I will start a thread once I get the tranny out.
Are those are the stock steels?
12-13-2010, 09:31 PM
#44
Team Owner
I remember that thread and I look at it every so often. Earlier, I checked the profile of the OP from that post and he has not been on AZINE since july. He has his email address listed so I just emailed him earlier with hopes of getting some updates on how his trans is doing
I trust your calculations since they have been spot on in the past. If upgrading the trans is really such a big issue, and my quest for more power/speed becomes even more addicting, I may just start having to shed weight since that will be the easiest and most affordable option
Im sure you have seen these scans in the manual but maybe IHC and others havent. Going by these scans, is there any valuable info that can be used for increasing line pressure?
Notice the last line..."line pressure reaches its maximum when the stator torque reaction reaches its maximum"
What does that mean? Is there a preset "maximum" that is already programmed into the ecm? Is there a possibility that the maximum is an unknown number and possibly a number that can handle a huge power increase like we have seen from my car without a failure?
I know IHC had some specs on the ATF pump and its ability to flow almost 3x as much psi then it actually uses on a stock TL.
Im just babbling at this point with all these thoughts
I guess what Im saying is.... is it possible that an increase in line pressure is already being achieved with the stock internals when we are making much more power then stock?
I trust your calculations since they have been spot on in the past. If upgrading the trans is really such a big issue, and my quest for more power/speed becomes even more addicting, I may just start having to shed weight since that will be the easiest and most affordable option
Im sure you have seen these scans in the manual but maybe IHC and others havent. Going by these scans, is there any valuable info that can be used for increasing line pressure?
Notice the last line..."line pressure reaches its maximum when the stator torque reaction reaches its maximum"
What does that mean? Is there a preset "maximum" that is already programmed into the ecm? Is there a possibility that the maximum is an unknown number and possibly a number that can handle a huge power increase like we have seen from my car without a failure?
I know IHC had some specs on the ATF pump and its ability to flow almost 3x as much psi then it actually uses on a stock TL.
Im just babbling at this point with all these thoughts
I guess what Im saying is.... is it possible that an increase in line pressure is already being achieved with the stock internals when we are making much more power then stock?
It looks like line pressure is controlled mechanically and rises with engine torque. It always rises with torque output but it's kind of an oddball way of doing it with the stator support but apparently it works.
The only easy way I can see to raise overall line pressure is to install a softer regulator spring. A different valve could be machined but it would be a ton of trial and error. It may not be a bad idea to compare part numbers of various springs from other Acura models that share this trans.
12-13-2010, 10:18 PM
#45
Safety Car
There is no need to worry about the load carrying ability of 5th, right? Fifth is unable to see any load against it. As soon as you aggressively get into the throttle, the trans will downshift into fourth at least. And, fourth is good up to 150+ MPH.
Wow. That is cool. I didn't take the time to closely look at the diagram. Thanks for pointing this out.
Wow. That is cool. I didn't take the time to closely look at the diagram. Thanks for pointing this out.
12-14-2010, 12:20 AM
#46
Safety Car
My apologizes to you bud. When you told me to look at that last line about "stator torque reaction", I didn't look close enough because I was short on time.
In light of IHC pointing it out to me, I wish to revise my answer.
You are right in theory that an increase in engine torque should cause a increase in line pressure. But on the other hand, we have firsthand accounts from Acura/Honda owners that have burnt the 5AT clutches from too much torque from being boosted. So, the increased line pressure from "stator torque reaction" appears to be insufficient by itself to prevent burning out the clutches.
However, all of those failures were with the oem Z1 ATF. So it appears that our best hope thus far is resting with the Racing ATF
12-14-2010, 01:12 AM
#47
Bert,
My apologizes to you bud. When you told me to look at that last line about "stator torque reaction", I didn't look close enough because I was short on time.
In light of IHC pointing it out to me, I wish to revise my answer.
You are right in theory that an increase in engine torque should cause a increase in line pressure. But on the other hand, we have firsthand accounts from Acura/Honda owners that have burnt the 5AT clutches from too much torque from being boosted. So, the increased line pressure from "stator torque reaction" appears to be insufficient by itself to prevent burning out the clutches.
However, all of those failures were with the oem Z1 ATF. So it appears that our best hope thus far is resting with the Racing ATF
My apologizes to you bud. When you told me to look at that last line about "stator torque reaction", I didn't look close enough because I was short on time.
In light of IHC pointing it out to me, I wish to revise my answer.
You are right in theory that an increase in engine torque should cause a increase in line pressure. But on the other hand, we have firsthand accounts from Acura/Honda owners that have burnt the 5AT clutches from too much torque from being boosted. So, the increased line pressure from "stator torque reaction" appears to be insufficient by itself to prevent burning out the clutches.
However, all of those failures were with the oem Z1 ATF. So it appears that our best hope thus far is resting with the Racing ATF
Very excited to see how these new clutch packs work out.
Richie, where did you order these from?
12-14-2010, 01:23 AM
#48
The only easy way I can see to raise overall line pressure is to install a softer regulator spring. A different valve could be machined but it would be a ton of trial and error. It may not be a bad idea to compare part numbers of various springs from other Acura models that share this trans.
12-14-2010, 03:57 AM
#49
Former Sponsor
Do you have any experience with either brand?
They are Alto steels the OEM component are crazy expensive. I was thinking about having them Kolene treated. I am not sure if it is worth the money.
Last time I saw this thread, this scan appeared as a red X.
It looks like line pressure is controlled mechanically and rises with engine torque. It always rises with torque output but it's kind of an oddball way of doing it with the stator support but apparently it works.
The only easy way I can see to raise overall line pressure is to install a softer regulator spring. A different valve could be machined but it would be a ton of trial and error. It may not be a bad idea to compare part numbers of various springs from other Acura models that share this trans.
It looks like line pressure is controlled mechanically and rises with engine torque. It always rises with torque output but it's kind of an oddball way of doing it with the stator support but apparently it works.
The only easy way I can see to raise overall line pressure is to install a softer regulator spring. A different valve could be machined but it would be a ton of trial and error. It may not be a bad idea to compare part numbers of various springs from other Acura models that share this trans.
The 09 TL uses a new regulator body that's only about 80 bucks. It does look very different though. Maybe we can machine a custom cap with a slightly recessed pocket for the spring.
12-14-2010, 10:31 AM
#51
Three Wheelin'
This thread has now become like God to me and added to my favorites! I know nothing about auto trans and worry about mine all the time as Acura/Honda is known for crap trans. I would like to install a 3k converter but i am having a hard time finding one for our applications...
Sorry for the outburst... continue! :-)
Sorry for the outburst... continue! :-)
Last edited by Comptechtl2367; 12-14-2010 at 10:39 AM.
12-14-2010, 10:37 AM
#52
Team Owner
This thread has now become like God to me and added to my favorites! I know nothing about auto trans and worry about mine all the time as Acura/Honda is known for crap trans. I would like to install a 3k converter but i am having a hard time finding one four our applications...
If you run the Redline Racing fluid and replace the switches at reasonable intervals, I guarantee you will not have an issue. With these mods the reliability of the Honda 5at seems to go from sketchy to better than the industry standard. If you could only feel the way mine shifts at 100,000 miles you wouldn't worry at all. And Bert's with well over 100,000 miles with over 400whp thrown at it. I think it's safe to say the reliability issues are a thing of the past with these mods.
12-14-2010, 10:51 AM
#53
Three Wheelin'
Thats a very good point. I did do my switches less then 1-2k ago and I just ordered a case of Redline Racing ATF. Thanks for the reassurance! Someday i hope to go turbo but for now S/C will have to do and ike you said my trans should be just fine with the fluid change, cooler, and switches!
03-14-2011, 04:40 AM
#55
Former Sponsor
08-24-2011, 02:42 AM
#58
Former Sponsor
Not yet, my life is very hectic currently I am hoping to get them in before winter. After doing some research and talking to technical support it seems that Raybestos GPX frictions might be the better choice. No one seems to be interested in making custom frictions without some obscene price tag.
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