Appreciate the advice i'll keep that in mind.

 

I have zero problems with my XLR8 and I like them for my personal reasons and how its made.

Honestly I don't blade heeltoe for one reason, its not their product. ATLP sourced out their J-pipes and as much as heeltoe should do something about it, its not their responsibility because they don't want to be out on something that they can't get fixed from ATLP since its too old. I think you should contact ATLP directly and you will get a better answer/solution.

 

I thought Heeltoe bought out ATLP? So wouldnt that make Heeltoe in command?

 

That is correct and he would assume any product warranty and liability. Heeltoe should replace the J-Pipe either under warranty or goodwill.

 

Heeltoe has acquired ATLP's operations.

 

You dont have to have it TIG welded. I have welded plenty of turbo exhaust manifolds, down pipes, and exhaust systems using a MIG welder. It works just as well but does not look as pretty, and looking at that pipe... i wouldnt worry about looks hahaha.

 

billy boat, which im pretty sure is the manufacturer of ATLP products offers a lifetime warranty on all non race products

 

Billy Boat does not make ATLP products; Billy Boat manufactures our XLR8 exhausts. And the warranty on BB/XLR8 parts is 2 years.

Billy Boat Performance Exhaust offers a Limited Lifetime Warranty to the original purchaser of all non-race application products. Said products are warranted for life against corrosion (we use US Grade T304 stainless steel) and two years against any defect in workmanship and materials.

 

damn it! i was close, sorry josh, and thank you for clarifying my post

 

No problem. I just wanted to clarify so there wasn't any confusion.

 

Keeping his name out of this shitstorm. Can't blame you for a second.

 

Josh, what are your thoughts on the deterioration you see after 1 winter? Would you venture to say that that should not happen?

 

So still no ATLP or Heeltoe input on this thread. Why am I not surprised.. XLR8's warranty sounds legit compared to this ATLP bogus.

 

I think the timing has been very reasonable...most people, including myself have even specifically asked him to chime in before passing judgement.

 

sorry, found this ironic!
maybe his answer to your concern?

 

I saw that as well and thought of this thread.

 

LOL...
doesn't look good IMO. Anyway, everyone can run business as they see fit.

 

damn it I was just playing with the PAINT editing that same pic hahaha

"If you ever wanna take it off the car, drive it through the winter, it will fall apart on it's own. Satisfaction Guaranteed"

 

Well there goes the resale of my pipe... DAMN IT! :-)

 

There goes my Ape Tea Elk Pee

 

Now that is some good quality humor...
sorry Myron...I saw it and HAD to post!

lol.

 

Hahaha. Thanks for the comic relief! This thread needed it.

 

I see you have other ATLP products. How are they holding up? More particularly, the base exhaust?

 

I'm sure not EVERYTHING ATLP is bad...lol...
but yeah, curious about that too!

 

I have no problems with my Base Exhaust. Luck of the draw

 

DANG, you guys are gonna make me crawl under my damn car...Geez...

 

Ill try and throw my car on the lift tomorrow or friday to inspect my v1

 

My V2 is all busted up...but that's just from it's close proximity to the ground

 

That's cuz I took good care of that shit, mannnn! lol and we're in a warm climate haha no salt here suckas!

 

The rest of the exhaust is in completely good shape. It's reasonable. Plus Neverdull works great on the tips.

So it's just the Jpipe that all screwed up.

 

minus the v1 roof spoiler

atlp gave me a chance to swap it out for the v2 but i always forgot about it since its in the garage...somewhere...out of sight out of mind

 

Read every post and WOW!! I'm almost afraid to throw on the V1 jpipe I've bought awhile ago!!

 

They're not total cr*p and I'm sure not all products are bad...just be cautious if you're planning to put this pipe thru a northern winter with lots of salf on the road. I wonder if "rustproofing" would work on these? is there something that you could coat this with?

 

Ok, I am officially pissed off. This thread is bullshit, has a bunch of holes in it, and is really not truly representing what went on between me and the customer. I am going post up the ACTUAL conversation we had.

Before I do let me just say my reason for not posting sooner has nothing to do with being a chicken-shit, skating the customer service or quality of service we are known for. All those saying we have gone down or we've lost it, or our products are crap are sheep without the ability of critical thinking and individual thought. Simply put, we are servicing so many customers these days I don't have time to scour the forums all day. "I can't beleive they aren't in here addressing this issue." Did it ever occur to you that we didn't know this thread existed?

We replied to this customer within 2 hours of initial response. We were polite, respectful, and totally willing to compromise. Clearly this customer is unwilling to look at things from our perspective, and is unwilling to concede that while it sucks that the part is rusting this is not typical wear that people experience with ATLP products.



Customer: I ordered just over a year ago on December 2009 your ATLP Jpipe V2. And the top half of the flex pipe is deteriorating. I spent $400 on this pipe and I'd like some sort of compensation for this.. I can send pics for proof.

Heeltoe: We are so sorry that happened. Please send some pics (must be under 1 meg) and your order number/date.

Customer: Thank you I will send you it very soon!

Customer: Sorry I didnt send them sooner. But my order information is:
Date: Dec 15, 2009 02:20:18 PM
Order id: #----

I have the pictures attached all under 1MB as you asked. *sent pics shown in this thread

Heeltoe: Ryan, we have discussed this with the manufacturer of the parts and have realized the following things.

1- You live in a place where the weather takes a beating on metal parts like these.
2- These parts get hot, which, even in stainless steel, can propagate corrosion. I am not sure if you are running pre-cat deletes or are an aggressive driver, but if you are that will make things even more prone to corrosion (due to added heat).
3- The thin fibers of the mesh material are, combined with 1- and 2- above, the most susceptible parts of the exhaust to this wear. Because of the the heat, corrosion, and flexing they are vulnerable to breaking up like this.

Honestly, we don't see this sort of thing come back to us. We don't feel that this is typical wear, and therefore feel to a degree this part must have been subject to atypical use. This is in no way trying to implicate you at all, so don't go there with it. It could simply be the chemical makeup of the local dirt or road salt that accelerates things. One way or another, this is damage due to an environmental impact and is not technically a product defect that would be covered under warranty.

We don't routinely tell people "It's your problem not ours," so at this time, I would like to find out more specifically what level of compensation you are looking for. We may be able to accommodate you, but it must be reasonable.

Customer: I thought these exhaust parts were made to be as good as OEM? Explain why the OEM Acura mesh lasts longer than your ATLP. I thought ATLP was made of better quality. I am not running pre-cats, Just ATLP V2, RV6 Test Pipe then your ATLP Base exhaust. I understand your points, but I just spent $400 on an exhaust component that should have lasted longer than "A" winter. I dont generally even drive it when we have snowy conditions either. I have a Toyota Tacoma for that. To add on-top of it, I bring my car to a car-wash every week where it cleans under the vehicle. I dont track my car nor do anything atypical.

I just find it to be completely unreasonable for the amount that I paid for this. Salt or no salt. It was a years time.

The type of compensation I was wanting was a replacement for this pipe. I've been a customer of your website and have bought numerous items like: $1100 ATLP Base Exhaust, $140 24mm Rear sway bar, $400 ATLP Jpipe to name a few. These are not exactly cheap. All I'd like is a replacement for mine. Sending my current one back.

Heeltoe: Ryan,

The build quality on these parts is of a very high quality considering the fact they are aftermarket items. The fact that the factory part lasts longer is partially due to the fact that they specifically design it to last a long time, while the ATLP part is designed to produce more power than stock. So, the balance of compromise is definitely a factor here as well.

I also mentioned than this sort of thing really does not come up. I am looking at the piping and the mesh and I see a lot of corrosion. Does your cat-back show similar signs of corrosion on the pipes?

Please refrain from sending parts back until you are approved to do so. We will work this out, but I am going to ask you to keep cool and look at things from both sides. I can see where you are coming from. Please do the same for us. I am aware of your order history as I looked it all up when you emailed the first time. Understand that we do not have unresolved situations with customers when things like this come up. We will come to a reasonable compromise.

Customer: The catback is completely fine. I love my catback and the exhaust. And I greatly appreciate the gains. Never had an issue with it. The piping isnt really corroded it's the flex sections only. the rest of the pipe looks fine by my inspections of it. And if i'm not mistaken this was specifically designed for the car too. So why not make the longevity a factor when charging this type of money for it? I'm trying hard to think of this situation the best I can as is. I'm just very disappointed with the outcome of this and this "salt" situation..

Heeltoe: Ryan, you are again talking like you feel like we made a substandard part and charged a lot of money for it, when really heat and corrosive elements are what caused the problem. At some point there is little we can do about it without charging more money for the part. Even a factory j-pipe retails for $445. For us to make one in similar material but in low volume and high performance our j-pipe would be running more than $500-550 for sure. $399 is not an exorbitant amount of money for the part we made. Our competitors charge the same or more money for theirs as well.

Likewise, how can you be disappointed with the outcome of this conversation when it isn't over yet?

Anyway, all that beside the issue the farthest thing we want is to have you holding an ill opinion of the ATLP j-pipe. Since this is an extreme circumstance we are prepared to offer you a replacement pipe at a discounted rate. We can't really warranty it because it is too old and honestly not defective. To keep you satisfied, we can replace the part for $247, and we will pay the shipping for you on it if you pay to ship the old one back.

Customer: On the website Acura OEM.com. I can get the stock Jpipe for $250. And
399 is an exorbitant amount to some people. Even if it gives you gains
of power. Performance parts should be MADE to withstand heated areas
especially a part like a Jpipe..It should have been OEM quality done
and done. Which it wasn't. Now i'm here stuck paying you yet again
more money, literally half of what I paid for the old one, for a pipe
that should of lasted quite a bit longer. I'm sorry but if your pipe
cant withstand one year and one NY winter. I dont know what to say
about the quality of your product. I'm disappointed in ATLP and the
way you handled this. Salt and heat, when it's made for heat and
created with the same quality as oem... I shouldn't need to pay for
anything besides the shipping of my old Jpipe. In my eyes it is
defective. It was on there ONE year and through "A" winter. As I
stated before my car is cleaned on a normal basis even under the body.
I'm annoyed I need to pay for anything besides my own shipping of the
old Jpipe.


How is it too old? I had it on the car a year..
I'm really trying to not be that one jerk costumer, but Im not
satisfied at all with this transaction.

Heeltoe: Ryan, it is made to withstand the heat, and some degree of environmental impact. However making a part that does both perfectly is simply not something practical to do and the cost becomes much higher as materials get more specialized. This is not a matter of quality. It is a matter of build material coupled with the use pattern. If this was a chronic problem, don't you think you'd be seeing more and more people complaining about ATLP parts?

Look, however you feel this part should have been made is definitely valid. I don't want you to be upset but you are starting to sound a little inconsolable. Our offer stands. At this point, if you are unhappy, I can understand but our admission of fault extends only so far. Saying we will replace the part for free is a lot like saying "yeah, we know it is messed up." That isn't true. We cannot replace the part for free. Replacing it for nearly half price is saying "we see you have a problem, and we don't like that, so here is a big huge discount." The way I see it, for $250 you can replace the atlp pipe or you can buy a new stock one where you say you can online.

I think you need to consider the possibility that I am right, and the wear is not typical. Also you should really consider that however a part should be made in your eyes and however you feel it should cost are also valid, but not necessarily realistic when you get into actually designing and producing an item. I am really torn here man. If the parts were free or cheap pieces of crap I made overseas I could give a new one for free no problem. But, they are not cheap, and they are a very tight commodity with barely enough to go around.




That's where the conversation ended on 19th. They mever called me, they never emailed before or again, and instead this bitch session has been festering completely unbeknownst to me.
Rebuttle: As I said, I am pissed. I feel like I went really pretty far to explain myself to come here and read a thread yacking about how I wasn't willing to help and was blaming this or that. Fact is, the pipe corroded. They don't do that without heat and corrosive elements. Obviously the part gets hot, and that is not something that routinely breaks these parts. The corrosion is something I thought most people in snowy areas would not be completely surprised by. However in this case it seems like people are unwilling to accept the fact that not everything is going to hold up the same in all conditions.

Had the customer asked us to replace the flex, I probably would be totally fine with doing that, and would even pay shipping both ways. But they asked for a whole new pipe which frankly I don't think is necessary if all the rest of the part looks great.

We made an offer to replace the part for nearly half the original price, and we didn't even get a counter-offer. So the customer clearly thinks the year+ use they got out of the part wasn't worth anything.


This has all gotten really dramatic, and quite unnecessarily so. WHO HERE THINKS I WAS FAIRLY REPRESENTED IN THIS THREAD THUS FAR, and WHO THINKS MY CUSTOMER SERVICE HAS BEEN UNREASONABLE NOW THAT YOU KNOW WHAT ACTUALLY WENT ON?

 

I am really REALLY pissed that the whole page 2 exists here. You guys really let me down, bad-mouthing Heeltoe while we are here trying to get business done.

Really REALLY pissed. Like, the countless hours of typing, talking on the phone, helping people out who never even bought stuff from us MEAN NOTHING. How about the thousands of dollars I have dumped into these forums over the last 6 years? You'd all cringe if you knew how much that Ad cost that you are making fun of. Because of one damn post.

Your loyalty is starkly transparent.

The warranty didn't magically degrade from 3 years to one either. Clearly we can't warranty everything that happens to everyone. This case we thought deserved a considerable discount on a new part.

And not one of you critics even thought to email me? I am hurt. Heeltoe and ATLP deserves more than this slanderous crap.


By all means, if there are more issues with these parts the #1 thing I want to do is fix the situation. But we have to do it reasonably. One guy does not make the product bad.

 

PS, If you all decide to post in and comment and I don't get back right away, realize I get about 15-20 orders a day and 50+ emails a day that are all pretty damn important.(evidence, I handled this customer's issue in emails the best I thought I could, rather than poking around in the forums all day and ignoring him).

 

I agree your position was not accurately represented. I for one appreciate you posting up the full details. Everyone can make their own judgment based on that. As I said from the very beginning of this thread, it seemed he was "calling you out" without even giving you a chance. After reading through the transcripts, it seems you were being reasonable. A replacement of the flex section would have been a completely reasonable resolution IMO.

 

Well if replacing the flex pipe would solve the problem and you would pick up the check then I don't see the problem at all. but I don't see you offering that to him at all. You just said if you want the new product, $XXXX. maybe after he reads what you have posted about fixing the flex pipe, he will change his mind on your customer service

 

well it's good to finally hear both sides of the story.

at first we only heard what OP told us...so that's all we had to go on. it was wrong of some of you to badmouth a company without acutually knowing what really went down.

this does seem to be an isolated incident bc i have never heard of this happening to anyone else. who really knows what happend to OP's flex portion? maybe he scraped it one too many times? maybe it was built faulty from the factory? maybe it was some random salt/heat combination? who knows?

it's not right to slander and shit all over a company without knowing the full details. after reading HT's post, it seemed that he did try and help OP out the best he could. there is only so much they are responsible for in a situation like this. i also agree that OP should have just got the flex portion fixed, or even asked heeltoe if that was an option. if that is the only part that is faulty, why ask for a brand new replacement?

marcus, sorry all of this got out of hand. i for one do not see you in a different light and i appreciate all you do for the acura community.

 

This mob mentality is total crap.

The OP is fueling all you guys.