thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

No where to bolt them . Maybe weld tabs on?

@paperboy I think rv6 is 300 cell also. Looks like they use magnaflow cores, but I am not 100% on that

pohljm

E-shift Pro Cats are 200 cell catalysts. No heat shields, heat wrapped. Always pass

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

i switched my 3rd cat back to OEM, and went to another shop on sunday. however it was super empty and the guy did a thorough check and used an extension mirror to look at the part number on the HFPCs. said they looked aftermarket, were not approved, and said he would have to fail me on the visual, so he didn't do the test and didn't charge me.

might check out another shop someone told me about or i will put my front OEM cat back on before getting tested. rear is nearly impossible to get checked for a part number since it's so tight back there

the shop you referred me to...they couldn't check the parts number on it because it was heat wrapped right? i may have to go check out the shop you told me about and hopefully they don't care

pohljm

They dont check

I hate cars

Very unlikely (but possible) you'll pass but to give it a fighting chance drive the crap out it all the way to the shop and shut it off with no idle time. If the car tends to run on the lean side due to mods or 02 drift, it would have a better chance since cats are most effective on hydrocarbons and least efficient on NOx. If possible take it to a shop that will work with you. Some place that's dead and can take the car immediately vs letting it sit for an hour. The fact that they use the dyno should help with these cars. Manually shifting on the dyno and trying a different gear if it fails in one gear. Some shops "help out" without even telling the customer. They usually don't like to fail people.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

this is regarding hfpc with no 3rd cat setup right?

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Put the third cat on or cut up your exhaust to get one to fit

I hate cars

Yes sir. No precats is a for sure fail while no 3rd cat hardly makes a difference once warm. Precats do almost all of the work once hot. I gutted my 3rd cat when the car was just a few months old but before I did, I did a before and after smog check at my friends smog shop. There was just about zero difference with and without it which is why I went ahead and gutted it.

Interestingly, when I went to get my first real smog check a couple years ago it had lower emissions at over 100,000 miles than it did with 1,000 miles. The hydrocarbons were at zero the last time.

The EGR will take care of the NOx which goes up under load and heat but the cats have to take care of the hydrocarbons which sometimes go down with heat which is why it's good to have the engine and 02s and especially the cats hot when you do the test. Usually if they vary the load on the dyno by trying different gears they can get the hydrocarbons down. Most shops will do this but some try it once and if it fails it fails.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

Hmm interesting points about the efficiency of cats in relation to temperature. I didn't know they work differently at diff temperatures.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

It's called a catalytic converter for a reason. It catalyze the process of something.

I remember on my friends 240 change the timing so that it would pass smog with flying color

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

So learned a few things today and it's not good for Cali residents

- you can pass visual on HFPCs you just have to find the shop that doesn't check hardcore aka go to a shop that's very busy

- from my experience you will not pass smog in Cali with HFPCs even if you have the oem third cat. I put on my oem third Cat and failed big time... Gross polluter

My NO reading was 2300 (15/25 mph). The max limit is 400/700 and the gross polluter limit is 1900/1700. Wasn't even close to passing, labeled as a gross polluter

I don't know much about how to change the readings, if I change one HFPC back to oem will that possibly get me to pass? Or am I so out of range I would have to do both? I just really really do not want to change out that rear cat again haha

Any info appreciated

I hate cars

With NO that high I would be looking at the EGR before the cats.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

You mean clean it out or new one?

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

Probably clean it. I cleaned mine couple months back and it was definitely dirty in there. Very easy to remove, only 2 nuts holding it on.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

make sure u get a new gasket

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

Checked out egr and it didn't look bad. Scraped off what I could but wasn't a whole lot.

If the egr valve is bad, it would have to have a CEL right? Or can it be bad without a visible notification. Should I be able to move the valve physically

Regarding gaskets, I didn't put a new one on when I took out a carbon deposit keeping the valve open. I'll get a new gasket this week

pohljm

I passed easily with HFPC at all locations. It was very very clean I was convinced I could easily remove the third cat and still pass emissions wise.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

Yea I agree, something must be wrong somewhere else with my car. No way the NO should be this far off just because of HFPCs

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

any updates?

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

A honda specialist is gonna look at it tomorrow and do whatever testing they need to do to determine why I'm seeing such high NO levels

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

i think my hfpcs have gone bad (or at least 1). for about 6 months now i've had a rattle when my car gets hot and i'm at idle, but always thought it was from my large resonator i put on and the some metal expansion making the rattle...but the more i read and look up videos the more i think it's the cat coming apart.

i've checked the egr path and it seems fine, took off the egr valve and the car started stalling so it's not clogged, was able to mechanically move the egr valve with a screw driver, and have no CEL for a bad valve.

i'm going to put the stock cats on this week and visually inspect the hfpcs substrate to see if i can see any damage. i did purchase a used set of hfpcs in the past and they arrived burned up (got refunded), so i definitely know it's possible with the hfpcs

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

put back both my stock pre-cats back on (what a PITA), and am getting my smog done at lunch time today. if i pass i know my hfpcs are bad, if i don't then i know there is something else wrong.

just to make sure, it's normal for recently installed cats to smoke some (10 min or so) from all the oils and things while handling it right? i believe my hfpcs did that too when i installed them

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Ugh I need to drive it for a while because the system will say system not read and u will not be able to smog

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

yea i was worried about that. i have thursday off so maybe i'll drive it a lot and then get smogged on thursday. just trying to minimize how much i drive it since i only put back one heat shield on the rear cat.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

what a pain...after driving to 5 shops i finally got one to test me (i now need a STAR shop since I was a gross polluter on the last test, and the shops were broken or not manned).

with oem front cats and high flow 3rd cat, i still had 3x NOX levels. i talked to the guy a lot and he was super bummed i didn't pass since he was a fan of this car model. he asked for everything i've done to the car and told him i have it tuned but that the tuner said my specific settings should have no impact on smog. smog guy said "i'm almost sure that's it since he's running open loop"

going to reset my factory ECU settings tonight and now i have another appt tomorrow morning. will update this again with HOPEFULLY the reason why i didn't pass smog...

pohljm

Sounds likely

I hate cars

Open loop? Why is it running open loop?

If that doesn't fix it I would pull the EGR off and start it for a couple seconds. The engine should be very loud and it should rev up quickly without giving it any throttle. If its not loud or it doesn't rev, one side of the system is plugged. Hopefully it's just a simple reset. Cats don't affect NO much at all which is why I knew the cats weren't the problem.

thisaznboi88

iTrader: (7)

Time for some port and polish runners

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

so i FINALLY passed smog after visiting 6 smog shops, replacing my HFPCs with oem cats, switching the HFC a few times, checking egr valve and pathway...such a hassle and it was all because of my tune. i would have passed easily with HFPCs and HFC if i had just returned my ECU to stock parameters.

my NO numbers went from 6x legal limit to less than 1/10th the legal limit by removing the tune (2400 ppm down to 30).

i checked the egr path and valve per your first post and nothing was clogged and the the valve mechanically worked. i also removed the valve and the car got super loud and stuttered so i knew then that it wasn't a clogging issue

after my first failed test i emailed my tuner about impacting smog and he responded "Your map should let you pass with flying colors -- unless the O2 sensor is bad or they're doing something odd during testing. I intentionally left the TPS based open loop settings (instead of MAP based, which usually is what causes the NOx reading failures).We can bump up the determination settings to see if it helps."

i don't know much about tuning so that gave me false confidence. now after reading up on all smog related issues i can see why that would be a problem. i'm going to have to talk to him after the holiday and see how we can keep the driveability of my tune while not being a gross polluter

drove the car for about 100 miles after connecting battery and then another 20 miles after resetting ECU. i made sure they read the readiness codes before starting the test this morning. all good.

already have them


so in the end my contribution to this thread is that HFPCs and HFC will most likely pass...and if you have a tune reset your settings or make sure it's not effecting your emissions to this point

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

wow interesting journey. Well, at least it's easy to revert to a stock tune for the smog test right?

In any case the question still stands, will the car pass with HFPC and 3rd cat delete? I know some of you hypothesize that it should when the cats are hot enough but I'd still like to see some real world results.

I hate cars

That's great. Now I would be worried what the tune does that causes the high NO. If it just disables the EGR, that's fine. If it's running so lean or advancing the timing that much you might want to revisit the tune for the engines safety.

I think the fact that it passes hydrocarbons with the HFPC means it should pass smog no problem with them.

I hate cars

Since he passed hydrocarbons with them, there should be no problems. That's the cats main purpose and what they're best at. Plus,'I think one member already did. The 3rd cat has virtually no effect once the engine is up to temp. Back when my car had around 100 miles I got it smogged with and without with no difference.

pohljm

smogged again in CA today with procats at all three spots. Easily passed. I know I can remove the third cat with a j-pipe and still pass.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

nice, so now time for me to get one of the jpipes with the 3rd cat delete integrated

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Thought I'd throw this here, I passed my smog with RV6 V3 HFPCs, ATLP V2 J-Pipe and test pipe on the car, with all the other bolt-on mods (ported runners, 4" CAI, '12 SHAWD intake manifold, ZDX TB, XLR8 pulley).

These are where my numbers were, still plenty of margin.

------------------------%CO2---%O2
15mph 1684---------14.5-----0.3
25mph 1720rpm---14.2-----0.3

HC (PPM) -- AVG for TL is 4, max is 51 @ 15mph and 35 @ 25mph
15mph 1684rpm --- 15ppm HC
25mph 1720rpm ---- 12ppm HC

CO % --- AVG for TL is 0.01, max is 0.48 at 15mph and 0.46 at 25mph
15mph 1684rpm--- 0.03
25mph 1720rpm --- 0.03

NO (PPM) -- AVG for TL is 16, max is 419 at 15mph and 706 at 25mph
15mph 1684rpm --- 175
25mph 1720rpm --- 156

Still a fair amount of room before being in gross polluter territory.

jchcmax

First of all, my car passed. I was suprised to find out that there's a new procedure in place for smog tests now. My car did not a have to be placed a dyno or have a tailpipe reader. It was all visual, including a smoke test from the exhaust-basically a red line rev to see if there's any smoke coming from exhaust tailpipe. Most of it was done with a diagnostic reader plugged into the OBDII port. I asked the guy at the smog station about this and he said that for 2000 and newer cars, there's no dyno test. That is only for 1999 and older cars. In a way, this makes it easier for us to smog. That tailpipe test always makes me nervous. Anyways, the only emissions related aftermarket part I have is the ATLP 3rd cat and AEM intake with a CARB approved number.

mzilvar

iTrader: (3)

Nice, it does depend on what city you live in and have your car registered in. California is divided into different program areas for smog tests.

See here:

https://www.bar.ca.gov/FormsPubs/Fac...ram_Areas.html

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

I just passed smog the other week. I have rv6 v3 hfpc, atlp v2 jpipe, and stock 3rd cat.

sockr1

iTrader: (5)

did they just run obdii? or sniffer?
was it a star station?

pearlUA7

No more sniffer, only port. If you can pass visual... I just passed with with full rv6 exhaust (hfpc)