89mm K-series pistons and J32/j35 compatibility
05-20-2015, 03:09 PM
#121
They dont have a small skirt on one side like the new stuff
05-21-2015, 10:42 AM
#123
So, here is a copy and paste of my conversation with JE pistons. Hope this helps anyone looking to do this. I'm sure they'd honor the offer to anyone that requested it if you're looking for pistons for your J Series
Hello,
I'm going to build a honda J series motor. The K series 89mm pistons fit my application. My questions are as follows.
Can I order 6 instead of 4?
Do you happen to know if they will clear the J32 (CL Type S motor) valves? They're larger than both the k series and j35
J32A2: 36mm/30mm Intake/Exhaust
If not, can they be made to do so?
The valve relief is big enough, but not exactly in the same spot. I would custom order the piston.
Best regards,
Darius Tarman
JE Pistons Inc.
Good day Sean,
Darius from Je told me to contact you in regards to your questions and that i may quote you as well. As far as the valve pockets clearing in regards to placement/ location to piston deck surface we dont have the absolute answer for you but the pistons can be altered in that area by a reputable and competent machine shop. The depth of the valve pocket on the shelf k-series pistons are much deeper than the j32 and j35 o.e pistons valve pockets so im pretty certain you will be ok in that respect but where the valve pocket is located you will have to measure. We at Race Engineering can save you some dollars by ordering through us. Cost or 6 pistons will run you 930.00 and they will come with rings and wrist pins. Also i can also do you one better and customer order you a set provided you send us a sample of the piston that fits the head your going to run on your engine assembly. I will place the pin location where you need it for the block, crank stroke and rod length you will be running on the bottom end. And i wont charge you extra for doing so. Typically a custom 6 cylinder set runs just over 1250 dollars. I will do it for shelf pricing as listed above. Let me know if we can help. Thanks ahead, John.
www.raceeng.com
561-533-5500 office
561-533-0151 fax
No problem... hence why im offering you the customs at the shelf pricing to insure all is proper. You just gotta tell me if you want an asymmet forging or if your ok with a strutted forged instead... both work extremely well. I push the strutts more because of the indexing issue you just mentioned. Again i can make it happen either way. Let me know when your ready.
On 5/19/2015 5:58 PM, sean wrote:
Hello,
I'm going to build a honda J series motor. The K series 89mm pistons fit my application. My questions are as follows.
Can I order 6 instead of 4?
Do you happen to know if they will clear the J32 (CL Type S motor) valves? They're larger than both the k series and j35
J32A2: 36mm/30mm Intake/Exhaust
If not, can they be made to do so?
The valve relief is big enough, but not exactly in the same spot. I would custom order the piston.
Best regards,
Darius Tarman
JE Pistons Inc.
Good day Sean,
Darius from Je told me to contact you in regards to your questions and that i may quote you as well. As far as the valve pockets clearing in regards to placement/ location to piston deck surface we dont have the absolute answer for you but the pistons can be altered in that area by a reputable and competent machine shop. The depth of the valve pocket on the shelf k-series pistons are much deeper than the j32 and j35 o.e pistons valve pockets so im pretty certain you will be ok in that respect but where the valve pocket is located you will have to measure. We at Race Engineering can save you some dollars by ordering through us. Cost or 6 pistons will run you 930.00 and they will come with rings and wrist pins. Also i can also do you one better and customer order you a set provided you send us a sample of the piston that fits the head your going to run on your engine assembly. I will place the pin location where you need it for the block, crank stroke and rod length you will be running on the bottom end. And i wont charge you extra for doing so. Typically a custom 6 cylinder set runs just over 1250 dollars. I will do it for shelf pricing as listed above. Let me know if we can help. Thanks ahead, John.
www.raceeng.com
561-533-5500 office
561-533-0151 fax
No problem... hence why im offering you the customs at the shelf pricing to insure all is proper. You just gotta tell me if you want an asymmet forging or if your ok with a strutted forged instead... both work extremely well. I push the strutts more because of the indexing issue you just mentioned. Again i can make it happen either way. Let me know when your ready.
On 5/19/2015 5:58 PM, sean wrote:
.ExternalClass .ecxhmmessage P {padding:0px;}.ExternalClass body.ecxhmmessage {font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}Thank you for the offer and reply. The K series pistons work perfect. the down side is the asymmetrical piston itself. Normally we would just turn the piston 180 degrees and it'd work fine. However, those pistons can't be turned without severe consequences 
05-24-2015, 02:20 PM
#124
KN_TL, look at the valve relief impression on the second photo you posted above. See the difference in depth between each side? The side on the right is deeper to accommodate the larger intake valve and if the piston was flipped in the bore, this would cause the intake valve to line up with the smaller exhaust relief which would obviously cause direct interference.
05-24-2015, 03:26 PM
#125
KN_TL, look at the valve relief impression on the second photo you posted above. See the difference in depth between each side? The side on the right is deeper to accommodate the larger intake valve and if the piston was flipped in the bore, this would cause the intake valve to line up with the smaller exhaust relief which would obviously cause direct interference.
06-05-2015, 10:38 AM
#129
06-05-2015, 10:51 PM
#130
I'm not sure if Andy actually used the pistons and rods I sold him on this build or not but the pistons were a "build to order" part and though they were catalogued, it still took them a few weeks to produce/deliver them once purchased. I believe I have pics of them somewhere just so others can have them for comparison purposes. I'll try and find them...
06-06-2015, 05:04 PM
#132
Three Wheelin'
iTrader: (3)
I'm not sure if Andy actually used the pistons and rods I sold him on this build or not but the pistons were a "build to order" part and though they were catalogued, it still took them a few weeks to produce/deliver them once purchased. I believe I have pics of them somewhere just so others can have them for comparison purposes. I'll try and find them...
06-12-2015, 09:16 AM
#133
Three Wheelin'
So much piston porn in here 
08-03-2015, 12:08 PM
#135
So I'm really wondering what Tony did in regards to the "off the shelf" wisecos he used. Going by his build thread I went ahead and got a set of the 6586M89s which would yeild me a 9.2:1, perfect for my 500whp/10psi build. I got around to measuring them and noticed the pin offset/opposite valve relief issue I would have on the 3 flipped pistons for the front bank. Then I found this thread and saw others realised it as well. The K24 pistons have a 0.060" or so offset. My oem J35Y2 (9th gen Accord) pistons have a 0.100" offset but symmetrical valve reliefs allowing them to not have to be flipped and keep the offset/crank orientation correct. In talking with wiseco today about it they said that installing the k24 pistons flipped would affect TDC timing on the flipped side by more than a few degrees! I'm wondering did Tony just flip them without taking into the account the offset difference? I know he's a very reputable builder so I'd think not but his build post seems to say he did... And that engine seems to run great so maybe it's not a big a deal as wiseco says?
Regardless they told me to send my set of K24's back and they are going to make me a custom set with the correct valve relief/offset orientation.
Regardless they told me to send my set of K24's back and they are going to make me a custom set with the correct valve relief/offset orientation.
08-04-2015, 06:27 AM
#136
So I'm really wondering what Tony did in regards to the "off the shelf" wisecos he used. Going by his build thread I went ahead and got a set of the 6586M89s which would yeild me a 9.2:1, perfect for my 500whp/10psi build. I got around to measuring them and noticed the pin offset/opposite valve relief issue I would have on the 3 flipped pistons for the front bank. Then I found this thread and saw others realised it as well. The K24 pistons have a 0.060" or so offset. My oem J35Y2 (9th gen Accord) pistons have a 0.100" offset but symmetrical valve reliefs allowing them to not have to be flipped and keep the offset/crank orientation correct. In talking with wiseco today about it they said that installing the k24 pistons flipped would affect TDC timing on the flipped side by more than a few degrees! I'm wondering did Tony just flip them without taking into the account the offset difference? I know he's a very reputable builder so I'd think not but his build post seems to say he did... And that engine seems to run great so maybe it's not a big a deal as wiseco says?
Regardless they told me to send my set of K24's back and they are going to make me a custom set with the correct valve relief/offset orientation.
Regardless they told me to send my set of K24's back and they are going to make me a custom set with the correct valve relief/offset orientation.
I only checked TDC on #1 to check cam timing and since it's all back together, I need to find some extensions for my dial gauge to check the front bank to see just how far off the timing is.....
08-04-2015, 09:20 PM
#141
A couple degrees off on cam timing won't hurt anything, I think belt stretch is that much on an older belt, don't sweat it KN we are not building formula one cars here looking for every bit of power we can get withing the rules, just run it others are with no problems
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08-05-2015, 01:35 PM
#142
Senior Moderator
NASA had the same issues with Gemini, Apollo, STS, etc. I can completely understand the frustration. I've been reading your stuff since the beginning and have thoroughly enjoyed your progress. If I can be of any assistance, including sending some fluids/etc I wouldn't mind at all!
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KN_TL (08-05-2015)
08-05-2015, 07:58 PM
#144
Is that where the dial stops moving ? if so where is it when the dial starts moving again ? in between the stop and start is top center
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KN_TL (08-06-2015)
08-06-2015, 05:50 AM
#145
That is at it's high point. It was hard to see exactly when the piston would start decending with all of the cam mass to move and having a belt tie it all together.
I'll check again tonight, I may be closer than I originally thought.
I had checked the valve clearance to the piston using play doh when I mistakenly used J30 heads which were shaved to the service limits. I don't recall the values but it was well within the factory specs.
I'm relieved.
I'll check again tonight, I may be closer than I originally thought.
I had checked the valve clearance to the piston using play doh when I mistakenly used J30 heads which were shaved to the service limits. I don't recall the values but it was well within the factory specs.
I'm relieved.
08-08-2015, 10:27 PM
#146
Yea wiseco wouldn't specify how much "off" they would be. Looking at my stock piston, it has symmetrical valve reliefs (intake and exhaust are same width, depth, space etc), which are the same size as the Wiseco exhaust reliefs, and much smaller than the intake reliefs. I could technically not flip the pistons to keep the pin offset correct, and have three of the pistons have the exhaust/intake reliefs backwards....the intake still won't hit the exhaust reliefs on the wisecos since they are the same size as the stock intake reliefs....know what I mean? OEM ones look like just Yungone501's custom ones above which I will probably end up getting, minus that whacky looking lowered ring land thing
Granted this is also the "wrong" way to do it and I'd have the little exhaust valves opening into giant intake reliefs, and who knows what that would do to the flow and/or combustion properties, if anything.
Wiseco just kept telling me the strongly recommend I not run these pistons flipped and to order custom ones...how much of that is them wanting to make the extra $300 on a custom order, and how much is them thinking it's really bad, I'm not sure.
My only issue NOW is that the shop I got the K24 pistons from won't take them back claiming they were special order, and wiseco wants $202 per piston for custom ones, and won't take these K24's back directly from me for credit since I didn't buy them directly from Wiseco.
Ah the joys of custom engine parts!
Granted this is also the "wrong" way to do it and I'd have the little exhaust valves opening into giant intake reliefs, and who knows what that would do to the flow and/or combustion properties, if anything.
Wiseco just kept telling me the strongly recommend I not run these pistons flipped and to order custom ones...how much of that is them wanting to make the extra $300 on a custom order, and how much is them thinking it's really bad, I'm not sure.
My only issue NOW is that the shop I got the K24 pistons from won't take them back claiming they were special order, and wiseco wants $202 per piston for custom ones, and won't take these K24's back directly from me for credit since I didn't buy them directly from Wiseco.
Ah the joys of custom engine parts!
08-09-2015, 12:11 AM
#147
(quote)
My only issue NOW is that the shop I got the K24 pistons from won't take them back claiming they were special order, and wiseco wants $202 per piston for custom ones, and won't take these K24's back directly from me for credit since I didn't buy them directly from Wiseco.
Ah the joys of custom engine parts![/QUOTE]
We had three pistons made to match the K24 the top of the piston was flipped around and we have a spare bank 1 piston now LOL
(if you buy them from a dealer you don't pay list price like buying direct from wiesco call around for the best deal)
My only issue NOW is that the shop I got the K24 pistons from won't take them back claiming they were special order, and wiseco wants $202 per piston for custom ones, and won't take these K24's back directly from me for credit since I didn't buy them directly from Wiseco.
Ah the joys of custom engine parts![/QUOTE]
We had three pistons made to match the K24 the top of the piston was flipped around and we have a spare bank 1 piston now LOL
(if you buy them from a dealer you don't pay list price like buying direct from wiesco call around for the best deal)
Last edited by UTAH TSX; 08-09-2015 at 12:14 AM.
08-09-2015, 01:04 AM
#148
(quote)
My only issue NOW is that the shop I got the K24 pistons from won't take them back claiming they were special order, and wiseco wants $202 per piston for custom ones, and won't take these K24's back directly from me for credit since I didn't buy them directly from Wiseco.
Ah the joys of custom engine parts!
My only issue NOW is that the shop I got the K24 pistons from won't take them back claiming they were special order, and wiseco wants $202 per piston for custom ones, and won't take these K24's back directly from me for credit since I didn't buy them directly from Wiseco.
Ah the joys of custom engine parts!
(if you buy them from a dealer you don't pay list price like buying direct from wiesco call around for the best deal)[/QUOTE]
I asked them if they could just send me 3 of the k24 pistons with opposite offset and they recommended sending in a oem sample becuase the K24 and J35 pin offset is different as well and affects C/R and TDC. Meh
08-09-2015, 07:12 AM
#149
Has anyone checked the deck height on these pistons ? we did on our JE pistons but I can't seem to find or remember what it was, KN_TL will know I'm betting
08-09-2015, 09:04 AM
#150
Here is what I measured. This was with the J30 heads so my compression is lower with the J35A8 heads. I was too anxious to measure them myself and bolted them on as soon as I put them back together. Most of my measurement tools for this is 100 miles north.
08-09-2015, 04:15 PM
#151
Curious how much your front and rear banks are off for compression ratio too. I can't see 0.120" pin offset difference making too much of a difference on max piston height, but it does make a difference. Heads would have to be off to accurately measure that though.
08-10-2015, 06:45 AM
#153
Well if my luck continues with neither my shop or wiseco taking these K24's back I'll throw two on the crank and check it out just so we all know. Going to order the custom ones today. Still waiting on pauter who told me 4 week backorder 5 weeks ago for rods. They said there has been a surge in J35 rod demand, guess people are catching on!
08-10-2015, 06:31 PM
#155
I am waiting for some additional AN fittings, would be nicer if I was closer to Ohio so Summit/Jegs would be next day.
Anyhow, the deck height question was eating at me. Taking the heads off now only involved removing the timing belt, water passage and precat and there is no coolant in the system so I went ahead and did it tonight.
Measurement I took was .0025 on rear #1, I am getting about .0015 or so on the front. I'm going to take more time tomorrow before reassembly, this was just a quick measurement.
What would you all consider too much difference?
Anyhow, the deck height question was eating at me. Taking the heads off now only involved removing the timing belt, water passage and precat and there is no coolant in the system so I went ahead and did it tonight.
Measurement I took was .0025 on rear #1, I am getting about .0015 or so on the front. I'm going to take more time tomorrow before reassembly, this was just a quick measurement.
What would you all consider too much difference?
08-10-2015, 06:55 PM
#156
Holly crap KN you are a animal, I have measured deck height of one bank to see how far off they were on v8's and we milled the block on an angle to make them as even as possible and we would be about double what you are (.002) from cly. 1 to cly 4 on the stock ford 351 Windsor blocks we used, how much does that change the compression from bank one to bank two ?
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KN_TL (08-10-2015)
08-10-2015, 07:38 PM
#157
Holly crap KN you are a animal, I have measured deck height of one bank to see how far off they were on v8's and we milled the block on an angle to make them as even as possible and we would be about double what you are (.002) from cly. 1 to cly 4 on the stock ford 351 Windsor blocks we used, how much does that change the compression from bank one to bank two ?
Using the same parameters, I get a 0.02108565606587:1 difference in CR.
I probably should go ahead and measure the combustion chamber while I'm at it......