ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

Alright guys the question that many people have asked before will a CT Supercharger off a 2nd gen TL fit a 3rd gen TL? And if not what will it take to make it fit? Well after much headache and trial and error I believe I am the first person to make a that possible!

From the beginning......

You may ask and wonder WHY would I want to put myself through this headache when I can just purchase a kit that will already fit my car? Well let me explain I went and purchased a used kit for the 2nd Gen TL without doing alot of research "I know I know Stupid on my part" and believe me I got an ear full from the wifey! I tried to sell the kit so that I can use some of that money to purchase the right kit. Well to my surprise the kit wasent selling so now I am getting a little worried so after much thinking and plenty of calls to Magnusun and CT I decided to do whatever it takes to make this kit fit so that my$2200 investment dosent just sit in my garage.

Starting to get interesting.....

So I get in contact with my buddy from Fast Eddies Racing in which they are responsible for perfecting a reverse head on a H22 motor heres a pic to see what im talking about and are used to building many one off motors and projects all the time.

So at this point all we had to do was measeure the drive shaft and shorten it to line up the pulley with all the belts on the motor and order the right pulley from CT so that we can drive the Charger with the motor. What we decided to do and to be different is that we wanted to do the exact setup on the 2nd gen TL and run the 2 pulley setup and run the Charger off the alternator pulley VS a single belt setup like on the 3rd Gen setup. So that if the belt on the Charger were ever to break we can still drive the car home and not be fully out of commission. What we also decided to do was to go ahead and just modify both elbows instead of buying new ones designed for the 3rd gen TL from CT cause they charge a arm and a leg for it! So at this point I am like It looks like this can happen.

Point of no return......

So after 2 weeks the drive shaft was shortened and balanced and new bearings were installed along with both elbows 1 for the intake manifold and 1 elbow for the throttle body were both filled and drilled so that it will line up perfect when we bolt everthing together. During that time I started ordering parts that I would need to make this kit reliable and working.

AEM FIC
AEM Wiring Harness
AEM AFR Guage
AEM Boost Guage
Spacer From CT for intake manifold
FPR Crushing Tool
Braille 17lb Battery
NGK 1 Step Colder Iridium Plugs X6
Silicon Hoses for Radiator


Now the headache begins.......

Now its D-Day meaning Install Day. Thinking that we covered everything that we would need we thought wrong! 1st The drive shaft was perfect but the Bracket that mounts on to the alternator didnt line up were we wanted it too so we had to fabricate the right bracket out of the exsisting baracket and drill and tap the holes so that we can bolt the charger to it seems easy but that took 7 hrs just for that. 2nd of course the battery tray didnt fi so I chopped that baby up and mounted it were its supposed to be that took 2hrs alone just for fabricating that. 3rd the tensioner pulley that came with the 2nd Gen Kit is too wide and if we were going to use that it would hit the valve cover so we ended up using a tensioner pulley for the AC of a Civic motor. 4th the spacing of the pulley on the Charger wasent lining up with the tensioner so we had to fabricate new shims for the pulley so that will line up properly. So now were are on day 2 of the install and working on the 22nd hour of installing and fabrication to make this kit fit.

Finally She's ALIVE........

Now its 8am on day 3 of install and we get everything installed! and everthing is running great. So the question is Can it be done and the answer is YES! Will I recommend doing this I would say its up to you! LOL The cost on doing something like this Ill just say for all the stuff I bought Charger and all the extras its still comes out to about $3100 so cheaper than a new kit and still cheaper than used ones on the BM and mine has evrything you need Guages,FIC, and Battery. I know for a fact I'm forgetting alot of other details I will add more as I remember them. Now on to the pics

Install


Finished

Double Pulley Setup (I had to hammer the support a little for more room)

Other View




Guages
Sorry for the velcro guage pods coming in soon

AEM FIC I know needs to be hidden


So Im on the DYNO as were tuning we are noticing that at high RPM'S we were losing boost and could not figure out why it was doing that I couldnt stay and figure it out plus I was leaving for vegas so we finished off at 263LBS of Torque and 253HP
Pics at the Dyno


So i am back now from Vegas and I figured out WHY I was losing boost all I needed to do was tighten the tensioner more on the Charger pulley more and BAM steady 4-5LBS of boost. And as of 7/15/12 I have a Dyno appt setup for tomorrow 7/16/12. Heres a vid of the motor running sorry for the crappy quality in the pics and the video!

And a video from the Dyno

Thanks for looking I just want to thank the following people for making this build possible

Tommy and Eddie from Fast Eddies
http://www.facebook.com/FastEddiesRacing

Cheiu From 4AE Auto for wiring the FIC

David from Import Auto Pros for help on the Dyno

Ferdie from South Coast Subaru for all the help on the parts

Nate and Chris From CT-Engineering for all your tech help.

And to AZINE for introducing me to the MONEY PIT LOL

EvilVirus

iTrader: (8)

Good job OP and post your new dyno

TLove It!

iTrader: (1)

Nice work ziggy I did the Velcro mounted guages too, didn't like the way the pods looked. Also have my fic resting on the floor for now
That's good that you were able to get 4-5 lbs of boost, I cant seem to get more than 3.9lbs. What was the ambient temperature when you did your dyno pulls?

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

Thanks I have a new Dyno sheet its ok I guess still have some issues.

Thanks yeah Ill see how the new pods look and ill decide from there if ill keep it or not. So I went in for the dyno today and I have some questions for you! When we pull on the dyno once we hit 4-5 lbs of boost we get a check engine light and the code reads Barometric pressure high so were thinking the MAP is reading the boost pressure and causing that code. Do you get that code since your on FIC and if so what did you do to fool the system not to read boost? We are thinking of adding a part called "missing link" which is a one way bypass to help vacuum flow through but not let boost enter the MAP area. The other thing we noticed is as the temperature in the motor increases we start loosing boost goes to 3-2 we let the car sit and cool down then we see 3-4-5 do you run into that problem? Seems like to us that as the motor gets hotter the belt starts to slip. I adjusted tension and it helped pick up the boost again but the belt is pretty tight already. TLoveit your input would be greatly appreciated! Heres the dyno graph not bad considering i only have a j-pipe no 3rd cat and no mid muffler pretty much stock. So final numbers are 283 hp and 246lbs of torque.



I know once we figure out the check engine light problem we can squeeze more out of it

rptls08

iTrader: (1)

def one of a kind as far as i know. i give you mad props for putting together a build like this

TLove It!

iTrader: (1)

Man, I wish I could be of more help but I'm still new to this game and have alot to learn. I didn't run into the "Barometric pressure high code" and have never actually read or heard about it until now As far as loosing boost; I don't think the heat would cause your belt to slip as tension is usually less when belt is cold. Be careful not to over tighten the belt causing excessive drag. The heat may be affecting you SC and that is very bad. If you haven't yet, look in to Water/Meth cooling.
Your numbers look good for the setup you have. I hope one of the more experienced guys will chime in. There are quite a few people with tons of knowledge. Sorry I couldn't help more but I will keep you posted if I hear anyhting that may help.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

There is a small aluminum block off plate that goes over the map sensor to keep it from seeing the boost. Looks like a flat plate with a post with a seal on it attached. Comptech should have one for pretty cheap.

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

Thank you sir! I just had to make it work no matter what! BTW your ride is looking sick as hell Air Ride might be my next step

Thanks for your input. I know it has to be something simple. But I agree water/Meth is going to be my next step. What kind of power are you putting down?

Thanks Hispeed I know you know your ish and youve been through a couple builds in your time any other info you have will be great help! I will call CT tomorrow and ask about that plate! Thanks again

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I have a pic that shows the piece if you are having a hard time finding it, that I can post later in the day.

rptls08

iTrader: (1)

dooooo itttt

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

That would be great! Just got off the phone with Chris and he's going to have Nate call me back to try to help me out.

Damn the wifey is gonna Kill me if I do! Oh well 1 nite on the sofa wont hurt

rptls08

iTrader: (1)

im telling you man its so worth it. its by far the best mod ive done to my car. makes daily driving a LOT easier. if you decide to do it and need some help hit me up.

acura82

Oh.. God... Crazy... sounds like an airplane... lol...

Kool....

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

Thanks rptls08 i will definitely hit you up when I'm ready to pull the trigger

Hahahah thats what I was thinking! Hahahah

@HISPEED I was wondering what will happen if I put the MAP sensor back on the original throttle body location? So that the sensor wont see boost anymore? Please chime in. Thanks

TheChamp531

iTrader: (3)

Now you need a real exhaust and PCDs

TLove It!

iTrader: (1)

^This would definitely help you ziggy.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

I have not run the sc for so long I don't remember where the map sensor was moved to. I do remember the little block off plate and it shouldn't cost more than $50 at the most. I will look for the pics here in a moment to see if I can find one of the kit all layed out for you.

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Here you go, it's the little aluminum piece sitting on the bottom of the R from coors, close to the vibrant exhaust gasket. It has a little O ring on it. I would go this route rather than moving the Map sensor.

SlimTL

This looks like a lot of work. But props to you on doing this. Nice Job.

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

Yeah thats next on the list. I wanted to do it step by step and very time I added something I wanted to hit the Dyno to see what kind of gains I get. I know it'll get expensive I guess I just want to make my own personal log.

Yeah thats very true! Which setup did you go with? oops never mind I just checked your sig and your using RV6 thats the same stuff i'm looking into now

@SLIM Thank you sir!

Oh ok I see it yeah I made my own block off plate. I believe that goes on the original location on the throttle body in which I already have it blocked off. I got off the phone with CT this morning and they said that they think my clamp voltage is set to high so I'm going to take it back and adjust down to atleast 2.9 volts and see what that does hoepfully that takes care of the issue But so far thanks for the input guys you've been great help

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

@ HiSPEED I just ordered a part called "Missing LInk" supposed to be a 1 way valve for the map sensor so it dosent see boost! Have you heard about that? Hopefully that will take care of my issues

Heres the link to the part
http://www.inlinefour.com/missinglink.html

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

Looks like it will work, I just don't understand what part you were missing from the CT kit to make it work. I thought the map block off plate was what you needed.

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

Thanks for the reply@HISPEED! I have the MAP block off plate which goes on the original Throttle body that part has been taken care of but it's the check engine light thats driving me crazy and from what the check engine light code its due to the MAP sensor seeing boost so I ordered the missing link so that the MAP wont see it. Its like the old school days when you would use a check valve from a fish tank to fool the map sensor not to see boost. Are you running FIC? if so what voltage do you have your clamp voltage set at?

Hi speed

iTrader: (3)

That's what it is, you are using the Fic instead of the ACM ( black box ) the kit came with. I was using the Fic but switched over to the J&R ECU so I'm not sure what the voltage was set at. The only CEL I have is for too rich in both banks and that isn't going away.

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I can't find the screenshot anymore that had my settings in it... I want to say the MAP clamp was set at 3.92V but it'll vary depending on your elevation. If you have access to an OBD-II scanner, you can check it easily enough. Just use it to scan through the live data on the ECU with the key "ON", but the engine off. It should give you the volts of the atmospheric pressure. Input that value into the F/IC.

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

J&R NICE! Ive been reading up on that as well I think after I source out a M90 and finish up all the other bolt on stuff I might switch over to J&R. Im just kind of iffy reading all the horror stories people are having not getting there unit after putting a deposit! But thanks for the input and yeah I'm getting CEL for too rich also I keep reseting it but it keeps popping back up so now im just running with the CEL light on

@BMEYER thanks for chiming in I was hoping you would jump in and give me some feed back! I will have to get my buddies OBD scanner and try that i think right now we have it set at 2.9volts so ill double check that this weekend! Also have you guys ever heard about the RDX turbo motor running a check valve on the MAP sensor and it comes factory like that? I guess Honda is using that valve to control the factory MAP sensor from seeing boost aswell! I'm looking into that now and maybe I might be able to integrate that as well!

bmeyer

iTrader: (3)

I think I heard someone mention that before, but I never really gave it any though. You really shouldn't need it if you're clamping the MAP properly. I ran an F/IC for around 1-1.5 years and never had any issues with it. Well, not with the MAP clamp functionality anyway.

One other thing to check would be the wiring harness and make sure that sensor is wired in properly. Your car is newer than mine so my wiring diagram won't do you any good unfortunately. If you have an ECU pinout, just look for the MAP wire. In my case, it was a green/red wire with ~3 volts with the ignition switch on, and ~1 volt at idle. Make sure that wire is tied in to your F/IC harness.

ziggyh22

iTrader: (3)

@BMEYER I will check the wiring one more time! Those were my thoughts exactly Ive read many people using the FIC and not running into the same problem as me so it has to be something simple Thanks again for your input and I will check the wiring and hook up the OBD scanner this weekend!

kingkong_dav

Ziggy i seen u flyby the shop on cherry ave. Lol. Where u part throttle?. Ne way 250 hp seem a little low. Is it dixed n how much hp r u now?