Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Official 3G Turbo Thread

I think it’s about time we had one of these for those of us who are at least willing to explore the possibility of it happening. I personally think it could happen for under the price of the CTSC. I would like to keep this thread as clean as possible so If you are not part of the solution ( meaning you are part of the problem) don’t say anything at all. There are plenty of other threads to post in to get your numbers up.

Now, reading over the 2gen forums for the past couple weeks and some old topics here, I think we could bump a few heads together and get some good ideas going. Like before the STS style setup looks like it might be the easiest/ most feasible, this being that you don’t have to mess with the pre or main catalytic converters. I was probably going to try to get a picture of the undercarriage of our car to see what we have to work with under there. If anyone already has this, please feel free to post it up Can anyone compile/ add some things to the list of

“What might be an issue”

- location of turbo
- fuel management
- piping location
- oil lines

ACCURATEin

The stock front bumper will not allow sufficient airflow for a front mount intercooler.

Versus Motorsports front bumper is an option.

Boardman

Great thread! I need to go away and give this some thought in regard to the points you mentioned but I will definately be back with constructive input. One question - realistically - what does everyone thing the market for such a kit would be? Only reason I ask is that if it would be big enough I know someone who owns a company that does bolt-on turbo kits and he is looking to expand this product line. He started with one GM FWD application and now has a few of those and is about to release a package for the 5.7L Hemi's.

One additional point we might want to consider is powertrain , I know from experience once you start pumpting substatially more power through a stock trans [which you WILL in a turbo application] you're most likely going to run into reliability problems down the road with trans [input shafts etc], torque converters etc. Just something else to consider .

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

This true. That's why agree that the STS style is more feasible for those of us who still want a clean/stock look. The intercooler could be an upgrade. But i think there should be enough space over there for a SMIC where the stock air box would be( just an option)
Torque converter was one i forgot. I did do a search for those about a month ago. That something else that can be futher investigated. As far as a market, i think there is one. But with these cars compared to civic and mustangs, people aren't willing to sacrafice their luxury features for performance. That's why i think this needs to be discuss in the cleanest for as of right now. Another reason to like the STS style set up is because it might eliminate battery relocation

Black_05_TL_6SP

OK, first you locate the turbo at the back of the car. This makes it so you do NOT have to use a intercooler, as this allows ample time for the air to cool, thus increasing the life of the turbo, and reducing the need for additional equipment(FMIC or SMIC). Also, the boost level does not need to be as high. You do have the hassle of the oil lines and the piping, but no biggie. It also eliminates having to get rid of the cats, which means a exhaust to air wastegate can be used. Load "POOF" from under the car rather then from under the hood.

Tranny wear will be dependent upon power, as any car would suffer from the abuse. The NSX has been able to take 600hp on its 6 speed and hold up. After that it tends to not like it any more. Clutch would be important, but it looks like that is being worked on as well.

ECU-there may be a couple of company's willing to help with that if a turbo where to come out. But the car would run fine on 4-6lbs of boost.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Now my question/idea about fuel management was trying to use the ACM from the CTSC as a template. It is setup to increase the fuel up to around 5psi, right? Could we use that same module to the turbo app.? with maybe slighty larger injectors if needed?

jouvert00

This might also be a possibility for you guys.

http://www.v6performance.net/forums/...ad.php?t=62921

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

All I saw was AEM EMS, fuel regulator and fuel pump... I mention the AEM EMS to someone last night but wasn't sure if anyone has tried to intall it on our year yet. I dont know all the details on it but Im sure one of you out there do I'll most likely read up on it myself though.

BustedJack

sorry, Turbo may give you more power. But nothing can drag me away from S/C which has that signature whine.

the S/C signature whine > any turbo kit.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Not trying to be a jerk but there are plenty SC>turbo threads and vice versa. I wanna stay on topic here. I dont want any flame wars/battles or whatever you wanna call them starting in here..

baysic tl

are you looking to build your own or want to buy one allready made?...it looks to me that 5150 allready has done it and are willing to make one for the guys who want one...

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

i was looking to build my own since it didnt look like any company was working on one personally but if they want to take it on, That works out even better. I thought 5150 was a car club not shop. Do you wanna take the initiative and contact them?

Black_05_TL_6SP

Supercharger whine is nice, but nothing tops a BOV and wastegate!!!!!

BustedJack

my apologies.

I hate cars

There are a few issues here.

First off, the STS style rear mounted turbo system will have tons of lag on a V6. It works ok on a large displacement V8 with a moderate sized turbo. It really is not an option on our cars. As an example, my dad's little 4.5L V6 with the turbo mounted on the header spools the T-76 much faster than a V8 F-body with the rear mounted 76. Trust me on this guys, you will not be happy with a rear mounted turbo with our little V6s.

Having the turbo in the rear does not mean you don't need an intercooler. How fast do you think 700CFM of air is moving through a 2.5" pipe? Sure it cools some but it's still plenty warm by the time it hits the intake.

The turbo HAS to be pre cat, the closer to the heads/header the better.

The torque convertor requirement depends on what size turbo you run. With the new technology available today, turbo lag is almost non-existant. I run a 3,000 stall convertor on the street with a big turbo,
and you hardly notice it's there unless you really put your foot into it. I guarantee you can get a turbo capable of 400hp that will work ok with the stock convertor. These cars are FWD anyway, super fast spool from a dead stop isn't always a good thing.

Fuel requirements of a turbo car are a little less than a supercharged car making the same power, not to say you won't need bigger injectors and a better fuelpump.

A turbo will always make more power than an equivilent supercharger setup.

Sound is subjective but if you've ever heard the whistle of a big turbo through an open K&N filter, the supercharger doesn't sound so good anymore.

Boost can be turned up or down on a turbo very easily vs swapping pullies on a supercharger.

During normal driving, there is no extra load on a turbo motor, giving it the potential to get stock gas mileage. Exhaust backpressure doesn't come into play during normal driving and very little even under WOT.

I hate cars

I should add that a turbo will make the exhaust quieter. I'm running small straight through mufflers on my turbo car and it's not that loud at all.

blk2001tlon19s

no need for two turbos when you can one and that turbo very efficient. Personally, I think they ran a TT setup because that car is a show car. There is about 4-5 of us on the tl/cl forums, all with single turbos, with no lag issues.


Anyway, if I could be of any assistance regarding this turbo stuff since i'm experiencing for the second time on the tl just let me know

Ragnorak

I would much rather have a turbo setup on the TL than a supercharger, especially since the Comptech kit does not make anywhere near the power it should for the money. Turbo's are going to be much more efficient as well, the only problem is the complexity of the exhaust system. There are going to be some problems with the exhaust manifolds and the number of cats. The STS really isn't going to work because of the small displacement unless you use a very small trim turbo....and at that point I'm not sure its worth it. Notice how all of their systems are for engines over 5L of displacement.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

..

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

I figured i was going to hit you up sometime in the future to see your setup first hand. What kinda stuff they had to move around and what not. Trust..you will play a significant part in at least my research

Honestly, I was looking to do most of my research for trying to keep the turbo up front but i wanted to explore the possiblity of not having to take the engine bay apart and do something similar to the STS kit. Engine bay shots look way hotter any way

I hate cars

You need the turbo as close to the heads as possible to get as much heat into it as possible for good spoolup. As the exhaust cools, it contracts and the same mass of cool exhaust will not spool the turbo as fast as hot expanding exhaust.

15' of 2.25" plumbing will become a small restriction. For 350+hp, you want 2.5" minimum at that length. You will lose a small amount of heat through that pipe but there is no real heat exchanger. Most of the heat will make it to the throttlebody. I don't know how much boost most people run on these cars but I would bet it's not much with the high compression. With 5psi or so, an intercooler is not absolutely necessary. I know I need to adjust certain things, I'm used to running 20psi on the street and close to 30psi at the track.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Well what about using exhuast wrap from the cat~~>back to keep the heat in there. Honestly, yeh it might not be as hot right off the block but them pipes get pretty hot after drving around for a short while.
And yes i was expecting low boost like 5psi with no internals..maybe alcohol injection to kick it up another lb or 2?

Ragnorak

I think if you guys were serious about this kit, an intercooler upgrade option is a must. Upgradability is key with forced induction kits, especially since the motors have such high compression.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

The thing about intercoolers are that they aren't always good. Running boost this low, you would lose power with FMIC. Its proven time and time again. Were/ I'm not saying that you can't upgrade to an intercooler but right now it wouldn't be as necessary. I'm trying to get a basic kit together..foundation. Then after that you can build whatever else you want on top of it. Gotta walk before crawling with this since it seems no one on these forums have had any experience with the new 3G's. If the ECU's on the Ac's are the same as Honda, it will compensate for the engine running lean but that's another story...fuel management still has been discuss/researched enough yet

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Now..does anyone know where we can get some 3G flanges from or made? Something to maybe use for mock up.

Ragnorak

Who do you plan on going through to get this kit done? Is it going to be independently researched and developed or what? The only reason I recommended the intercooler is that you can probably push 8 psi on the TL's compression. Its been done before on other applications of similar displacement. However, I do agree with you that a base kit would be good to first develop.

Do you plan on making a tubular header setup with redone heads to mount the turbo?

I hate cars

You will only gain power from adding an intercooler, even at only 5psi. Is it worth the gain at such low boost? I don't know but I do know you won't lose power. I've been there done that.

Wrapping the exhaust will help but it's minor. It's a proven fact that the closer the turbo is to the exhaust port, the faster it will spool. Designing a kit without this feature is pointless.

The tail pipe might get hot to the touch but typical EGT right at the headers is 1,650 degreesF on my car. My headers glow yellow hot under boost. The tailpipe gets nowhere near this temperature. Not even close.

The only way other cars get away with the rear mounted turbo is large displacement motor with a moderate/small turbo. There's a right way to do this and a wrong way.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

No one as of right now. The only person who comes to mind for fabrication is a place called FLP( FastLanePerformance) here in Maryland. He did a downpipe for me on my last turbo setup that was beautiful. Reminded me of myself cause he was real picky about it not looking good but it was great quality. Sadly i had to cut it a few times cause my measurements were off a little because of the angle of the turbo.
Right now it is independently being researched...haven't heard anyone else doing much so why not. Its a project
As far as the setup being in the engine bay..the setup i was more going for is a sidewinder type. Similar to how a couple of the 2gens did theirs. The only difference would be that our( in my design) would be 2 primary pipes, 1 front- 1 back, that funnel/merge into one collector were the turbo will be mounted top mount style.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

...

TL CHROMETIDE

I'm a noob to turbo so help me out. What does STS mean?

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

the search i just did i see consistent pressure drop on low boost apps. so 5 psi is going to be more like 4/ 3.5 with a FMIC.

STS= http://www.ststurbo.com/

I hate cars

A 1.5psi pressure drop is horrible for such low boost. An efficient and properly sized intercooler at that boost level should have very low pressure drop. But think about it, you have to have some pressure drop because you're cooling the air.

This really doesn't matter because we're not measuring boost before the intercooler, we only measure boost in the intake manifold. If boost falls to 3.5psi at the manifold, you simply raise the boost back up to 5psi with a 10 second adjustment of the wastegate.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

Cool. I still dont see a FMIC though with the factory bumper. Plus the factory bumper design blocks the middle. That's why i only see a SMIC on the driver side possible right now, right in front of that lower grill if possible where the factory CAI gets it air.

I hate cars

I've only had the hood up on my car once so I have no idea what will fit under there. Does something block the passenger side lower grill? I agree, the TL doesn't look like the best candidate for a FMIC.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

I know the main thing on the passenger side is the windsheild washer fluid. Its better over there anyway because the the TB is on the other side. See, this engine is the opposite of the last car i turbo'd. Im sure there are a few other things over there. Not sure cause I have had no reason to pull the covers off on that side on the engine. I'll probably take some pics tomorrow.

JDM5lugHatch

I guess you've never owned a turbo car then. The sound the turbos make when spooling, the sound of the wastegate and BOV..... you are crazy. hahaha just messing with ya. However, turbo's IMHO are a lot nicer than SC's in many ways besides the obvious fact that they make more power. A person with welding skills and mechanical knowledge could make/peice together thier own kit.

blk2001tlon19s

look at engine management yet?

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

It's been mentioned a few time but thats it. The 7thgen Accord was using an AEM EMS, FPR and Walboro fuel pump from what I read. I personally haven't look into it that much yet. What were you using on your setup?

Black_05_TL_6SP

One major problem with a tubular header, the head is cast with the manifold!! The easiest thing to do would be to have the turbo mounted straight to the manifold and remove the cats, then you run into the problem of the O2's. After changing out the cats to the E-shift cats, I found that there is very little room between the motor and the firewall/ radiator. Possible would be in place of the third cat, but it would need to be tucked up.

Meek32v6

iTrader: (7)

I already knew i was going for a single turbo setup because of the size I also knew the two, front and rear exhuast, would have to merge somewhere but there is definitely no room in front of the engine. I would honestly hated to install the E shift cats myself. Thats one that would be left to the professionals. Ima try to do a drawing today.