We're back: Stock Subwoofer Upgrade Feeler
12-04-2007, 12:58 PM
#47
Originally Posted by aznbo187
Good news. After a phone call from the manufacturer, he suggested that I send in the amp and the subwoofer so that he can perform some tests to make sure that the new woofer will exceed the current one by using the factory amp. This way we can make sure that there is a benefit!.....I'll get an update by the end of the week when the sub arrives. 
12-04-2007, 07:50 PM
#51
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Originally Posted by tihomirbg
What do you have in mind for the rear speakers?
Which ones? What make, model?
Tim
Which ones? What make, model?
Tim
The stock sound in the 3rd gen TL sounds decent enough to me. Just wish it had a little more kick which is why the concept in this thread intrigues me.
12-04-2007, 08:11 PM
#52
The DVD-A Script Guy
Originally Posted by aznbo187
Good news. After a phone call from the manufacturer, he suggested that I send in the amp and the subwoofer so that he can perform some tests to make sure that the new woofer will exceed the current one by using the factory amp.
- Using the stock amp - Are we sure the folks that have blown their stock subs haven't done so due to clipping the stock amp? If we are all clipping the stock amp then there is a good chance we'll blow the new sub too. Clipping an underpowered amp blows drivers faster than using a bit too much clean power.
- The stock drive is already 2ohm so it's unlikely there will be any big efficiency gains.
- Not sure that the throw of the woofer can be increased much without slapping the stock grills in the rear deck.
Perhaps a design that can drop the speakers basket a bit deeper in the OE top mount, at the expense of a bit of cone diameter but increase in Xmax, and still clear anything on the back side will allow the designers a bit more latitude in their design. Even so I'd think you'll end up needing a bigger amp.
That said it's possible that Elliot Scheiner over at ELS was forced to compromise on the stock sub driver to the extent that another driver will perform noticeably better. It's certainly true the stock tweeters can be improved by after market drop-ins. I'm not as optimistic about the sub. Hope I'm wrong.
12-06-2007, 01:00 PM
#54
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Originally Posted by Adobeman
I'm interested but skeptical that you'll realize any really big differences.
Perhaps a design that can drop the speakers basket a bit deeper in the OE top mount, at the expense of a bit of cone diameter but increase in Xmax, and still clear anything on the back side will allow the designers a bit more latitude in their design. Even so I'd think you'll end up needing a bigger amp.
That said it's possible that Elliot Scheiner over at ELS was forced to compromise on the stock sub driver to the extent that another driver will perform noticeably better. It's certainly true the stock tweeters can be improved by after market drop-ins. I'm not as optimistic about the sub. Hope I'm wrong.
- Using the stock amp - Are we sure the folks that have blown their stock subs haven't done so due to clipping the stock amp? If we are all clipping the stock amp then there is a good chance we'll blow the new sub too. Clipping an underpowered amp blows drivers faster than using a bit too much clean power.
- The stock drive is already 2ohm so it's unlikely there will be any big efficiency gains.
- Not sure that the throw of the woofer can be increased much without slapping the stock grills in the rear deck.
Perhaps a design that can drop the speakers basket a bit deeper in the OE top mount, at the expense of a bit of cone diameter but increase in Xmax, and still clear anything on the back side will allow the designers a bit more latitude in their design. Even so I'd think you'll end up needing a bigger amp.
That said it's possible that Elliot Scheiner over at ELS was forced to compromise on the stock sub driver to the extent that another driver will perform noticeably better. It's certainly true the stock tweeters can be improved by after market drop-ins. I'm not as optimistic about the sub. Hope I'm wrong.
So what I am hoping is that the guy who is going to be responsible of making the drop-in subwoofer will make an another drop-in amp for our TL.
12-14-2007, 12:19 AM
#56
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sounds like a ggoood plan, but i hope you dont get our HOPES UP and then Flop like u did with the QUADS on a STOCK 05 TL bumber, haha still a little heart broken.
12-14-2007, 11:12 AM
#57
As an audiophile, free air subs will never achieve the thump and the heart pounding bass you are seeking, but I guess if the free-air sub is of better quality, there will be less distortion unlike the cheap oem cone.
But I'm also interested, as I do need my trunk space.
But I'm also interested, as I do need my trunk space.
12-15-2007, 08:30 PM
#58
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this is kinda off the topic of replacing the sub, sorta, but, My stock sub that i currently have right now, when i play songs, it starts to have a crack when the volume becoms a little higher. Do you guys think that some screw that might be holding it down be loose or something?
Thanks.
Thanks.
12-15-2007, 09:20 PM
#59
Originally Posted by bigBLACKTL
sounds like a ggoood plan, but i hope you dont get our HOPES UP and then Flop like u did with the QUADS on a STOCK 05 TL bumber, haha still a little heart broken.
As an audiophile, free air subs will never achieve the thump and the heart pounding bass you are seeking, but I guess if the free-air sub is of better quality, there will be less distortion unlike the cheap oem cone.
I'm still waiting for an update as they are playing with different possibilities, materials and designs.
this is kinda off the topic of replacing the sub, sorta, but, My stock sub that i currently have right now, when i play songs, it starts to have a crack when the volume becoms a little higher. Do you guys think that some screw that might be holding it down be loose or something?
12-16-2007, 09:28 AM
#60
Hi all,
I just picked my 08 TLS yesterday, I see the sub is suffering from the same illness as it did in my 2G. There is vibrating noise when the volume is up and bass is set to high. I don't want to hear any extra noise unless it is part of the music track. What can be causing this vibration on brand new car?
Is there a solution to this? My 2G, I installed a whole new array of component speakers and a quality sub in the trunk, custom wooden interface doors, and whole car was dynamated, I don't want to this in this car,as I need my trunk space.
Help appreciated
I just picked my 08 TLS yesterday, I see the sub is suffering from the same illness as it did in my 2G. There is vibrating noise when the volume is up and bass is set to high. I don't want to hear any extra noise unless it is part of the music track. What can be causing this vibration on brand new car?
Is there a solution to this? My 2G, I installed a whole new array of component speakers and a quality sub in the trunk, custom wooden interface doors, and whole car was dynamated, I don't want to this in this car,as I need my trunk space.
Help appreciated
12-16-2007, 05:25 PM
#61
In my car the shoulder harness anchor for the center rear seat vibrates. If I put my hand on it to dampen it, the vibration goes away. The dealer said that it has to do with a counterweight in the mechanism itself. I highly doubt it. I"m going to try some dynomat on the mount and see if it will take care of it. I thought I had the rear deck vibration that everybody talks about, but it was not the case.
12-16-2007, 05:31 PM
#62
Hi all,
I just picked my 08 TLS yesterday, I see the sub is suffering from the same illness as it did in my 2G. There is vibrating noise when the volume is up and bass is set to high. I don't want to hear any extra noise unless it is part of the music track. What can be causing this vibration on brand new car?
Is there a solution to this? My 2G, I installed a whole new array of component speakers and a quality sub in the trunk, custom wooden interface doors, and whole car was dynamated, I don't want to this in this car,as I need my trunk space.
Help appreciated
I just picked my 08 TLS yesterday, I see the sub is suffering from the same illness as it did in my 2G. There is vibrating noise when the volume is up and bass is set to high. I don't want to hear any extra noise unless it is part of the music track. What can be causing this vibration on brand new car?
Is there a solution to this? My 2G, I installed a whole new array of component speakers and a quality sub in the trunk, custom wooden interface doors, and whole car was dynamated, I don't want to this in this car,as I need my trunk space.
Help appreciated
If the sub woofer project goes through, I'll look into offering a vibration elimination kit along with it so that way the additional low end doesn't come with additional rattles. That wouldn't be good.
Anyway, back on topic.
12-19-2007, 01:15 PM
#64
Originally Posted by aznbo187
The subwoofer and amplifier still hasn't arrived there. I hope it didn't get lost on the mail. Sorry. I'll let you guys know when they receive it!
i demand update!!!!
12-19-2007, 03:32 PM
#68
YEI! Let us know the results!!!!!
12-28-2007, 06:32 AM
#71
Update!
They were finally able to test the drivers and forwarded me the T/S parameters, in case anyone was curious.
Revc= 3.120 Ohm
Fo= 35.182 Hz
Sd= 13.800m M²
Krm= 1.271m Ohm
Erm= 0.819
Kxm= 16.641m H
Exm= 0.603
Vas= 34.463 Ltr
Cms= 1.274m M/N
Mmd= 14.194m Kg
Mms= 16.058 g
BL= 3.882 T·M
Qms= 5.553
Qes= 0.735
Qts= 0.649
No= 0.198 %
SPLo= 84.974 dB
All in all, it's not a bad woofer from the factory, but it could be a lot more efficient in providing more output. Although it is labeled a 2-ohm woofer, it resides a littler higher than 3-ohm. It could prove to be a lot more efficient depending on the motor design and if the amplifier can handle it.
They will be cutting open the woofer and I'll keep ya guys updated.
They were finally able to test the drivers and forwarded me the T/S parameters, in case anyone was curious.
Revc= 3.120 Ohm
Fo= 35.182 Hz
Sd= 13.800m M²
Krm= 1.271m Ohm
Erm= 0.819
Kxm= 16.641m H
Exm= 0.603
Vas= 34.463 Ltr
Cms= 1.274m M/N
Mmd= 14.194m Kg
Mms= 16.058 g
BL= 3.882 T·M
Qms= 5.553
Qes= 0.735
Qts= 0.649
No= 0.198 %
SPLo= 84.974 dB
All in all, it's not a bad woofer from the factory, but it could be a lot more efficient in providing more output. Although it is labeled a 2-ohm woofer, it resides a littler higher than 3-ohm. It could prove to be a lot more efficient depending on the motor design and if the amplifier can handle it.
They will be cutting open the woofer and I'll keep ya guys updated.
12-31-2007, 03:52 AM
#74
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Can't wait to see it!
Originally Posted by aznbo187
This is a long shot, but let's see who's interested.
It would be a 8" drop in sub. Factory sub woofer replacement that would directly drop in and utilize all stock equipment, wiring, and amplifier.
No after market amp required! - efficient enough to perform full duty with the available ~100 watts of the stock amplifier.
No larger gauge wiring required! - runs on factory wires. Simply plug out the old sub, plug in the new.
Complete drop in. It would be a straight replacement, so you don't need to modify, or cut your rear shelf.
Custom built just for our application by a very reputable audiophile company. They focus most of their applications on a balance of of SQ and SPL, but much more biased towards sound quality and fidelity. So you won't only gain low end extension, but also improve the quality of your low-end.
Better sound quality, accuracy, and more bass.
Under $100.
Just seeing the interest, if there are any who want some more thump, but don't want to go with the extreme of a full sub woofer enclosure, amplifier, and etc. Just simple a bit more bass, the way it should have came stock.
If you are definitely interested in something like this, and would highly consider it if it came out, say "I'm interested". Feedback welcome.
It would be a 8" drop in sub. Factory sub woofer replacement that would directly drop in and utilize all stock equipment, wiring, and amplifier.
No after market amp required! - efficient enough to perform full duty with the available ~100 watts of the stock amplifier.
No larger gauge wiring required! - runs on factory wires. Simply plug out the old sub, plug in the new.
Complete drop in. It would be a straight replacement, so you don't need to modify, or cut your rear shelf.
Custom built just for our application by a very reputable audiophile company. They focus most of their applications on a balance of of SQ and SPL, but much more biased towards sound quality and fidelity. So you won't only gain low end extension, but also improve the quality of your low-end.
Better sound quality, accuracy, and more bass.
Under $100.
Just seeing the interest, if there are any who want some more thump, but don't want to go with the extreme of a full sub woofer enclosure, amplifier, and etc. Just simple a bit more bass, the way it should have came stock.
If you are definitely interested in something like this, and would highly consider it if it came out, say "I'm interested". Feedback welcome.
12-31-2007, 04:40 AM
#75
Here is a copy of the FR chart for the stock woofer. It shows both the results of the SQ and SPL levels.
As stated before, it's quiet a decent factory speaker but it could utilize the power from the factory amp much better. We're hoping for an overall more efficient woofer with a different motor design that will be able to work with the factory amp, and exceed the current woofers SQ, and SPL capabilities.
You can also see that the rating on the factory woofer indeed records as a bit higher than 3-ohm, not the 2-ohms it's labeled as.
I'll keep you guys updated.
As stated before, it's quiet a decent factory speaker but it could utilize the power from the factory amp much better. We're hoping for an overall more efficient woofer with a different motor design that will be able to work with the factory amp, and exceed the current woofers SQ, and SPL capabilities.
You can also see that the rating on the factory woofer indeed records as a bit higher than 3-ohm, not the 2-ohms it's labeled as.
I'll keep you guys updated.
01-02-2008, 09:13 PM
#78
Originally Posted by aznbo187
Removed rear shelf, and C-pillar covers. It's extremely easy once you get the rear seats out. All you need to do is pop, pop, and pop. Their all pop outs besides the SRS plug, which you need to use a flat head as it's a bit snug in there.
01-02-2008, 10:45 PM
#79
Senior Moderator
Originally Posted by apnorm
How much time did it take for you do do all this?