zax123

Hi all,

I posted this on Audio & Video, but I'm getting no replies and I really need help. I hope the mods don't delete the post:

So I've pretty much got my new system all installed. I'm just working on aesthetic stuff now.

I'll describe how I get sound and what the components are... From the OUTPUT of the factory head unit in my 3rd gen TL, I bring the output speaker-level signal from each of the 6 channels to David Navone Line-Out-Converters in the trunk. From there the LOCs convert to line-level and the line level signals get input to amps as follows:

Front channel line level input to JL 300/4 bridged for two channel operation.
Rear channel line level input to 2 channels of a JL e4300
Center channel line level input to a 3rd channel of the JL e4300
Sub line level input to mono-bridged operation on a Boston Acoustics GT22

The JL 300/4 powers two Boston Z6 components for front channels.
The e4300 sends rear channel info to two Boston Pro60 components for rear.
The e4300 sends center channel to JL Audio XR525CX in dash.
The GT22 powers a Boston G510 10" subwoofer in 0.5 cu.ft. sealed box.

So, besides the whole system being tuned really badly (in terms of crossover frequencies and gains), I am getting a VERY loud HISS from the speakers even when there is NO signal coming from the head unit. Even when the head unit is completely OFF. (The amps stay on cuz the remote trigger wire is simply a 12V at ON position wire). However, when I turn up the volume of the head unit if, say, a CD is on pause, the hiss gets louder.

So, it's really quite devastating cuz as you can see I have some pretty high-end components in my system, and it sounds terrible.

I would love any help anyone can give me. Thanks!!!

Rob

P.S. I'm running two 4 gauge power wires straight from the battery (fused at battery). One is fused at 80A and goes to a 1F cap and powers the 300/4 and GT22. The other goes straight to the e4300 and is fused at 40A. I tapped into a factory ground connection in the trunk for all ground wires.

BukvaMan

im not sure but could it be that the signal from the navone locs is turned up to much .... ill be done with my setup in couple days. im using the infintiy referenece 6 channel amp wich can handle a 6 volt signal the most i think but the locs give out a 9volt i belive ....... i really dont know im just guessing....

gt1

What happens if you disconnect the input cables from the amps?

King of Pain

Some questions:

Does it hiss with the engine off or on
Does it change freq with a change in engine speed.
Do you hiss from all channels
Do you hiss and music, or just hiss

Disconnect the plug from the stock amp. Does the hiss go away?

Disconnect the Navones. Does the hiss go away?

Disconnect the input to the amp. Does the hiss go away?

Disconnect the speaker wire from the amp. does the hiss go away?

I'm trying to fine out where in the signal path the noise is coming

The path I have used is:

1. Head unit - Signal from head unit goes to stock amp
2. OEM amp - The signal coming out of the OEM amp goes to LOCs
3. LOCs - The signal goes to new amps
4. New Amps- send signal to crossovers
5. Crossovers - signal goes to speakers

dz06tl

Did you try disconnecting the capacitor?

zax123

I'm gonna do open-heart-surgery on the system tomorrow night... try disconnecting things and seeing if I still get noise...

Thanks everyone for all the suggestions...

KOP, I'm encouraged that you have a very similar setup to me yet have no noise... so I suppose something must be defective or loose or something like that. I have exactly the same path as you. EXACTLY.

But basically, you guys see no reason why there SHOULD be noise right?

meyersnole

I am having a very similar situation. If you find anything out in your open heart surgery please share.

by way of David Navone Line-Out-Converters in the trunk

NE-774V (4Channel LOC) Front and Rear Speakers
NE-7V (2Channel LOC) Center and Sub

Front channel line level input to JL 300/2
Rear channel line level input to 2 channels (100x2) of a JL 500/5
Center channel line level input to bridged 3rd&4th channel (25x2) of the JL 500/5
Sub line level input to Sub channel (250x1) of 500/5

The JL 300/2 powers two 6.5 Focal components for front channels.
The JL 500/5 sends rear channel info to two Focal 6.5 coaxials.
The JL 500/5 sends center channel Focal 4" coaxial in dash.
The JL 500/5 powers a JL Audio 10W3v3 in the trunk.

Someone is actually doing this install for me, but is in the process of trouble shooting it. I found this on another forum (for troubleshooting DN LOCs, it may be helpful.)

http://www.carsound.com/forum/showth...highlight=hiss

and this

http://www.carsound.com/forum/showth...highlight=hiss

zax123

wow, extremely similar setup!! I'll definitely let you know how it goes, and please share if you get any info too. thanks!

Crook

It could be the gain setting on your amps or the LOC if it has one. Make sure neither are too high or maxed out.

bklynpanman

Get rid of the LOC's and get a JL cleansweep.. problem solved

zax123

So I unplugged the LOC inputs from the amps and instantly the hiss went away. Total silence. So I guess the gains must be too high on the LOCs. But I really though they were supposed to be nice and quiet with no noise. I haven't had a chance to play with the gains yet, I just did this quickly before work this morning.

I'm more and more tempted to investigate the cleansweep... but I want all six channels, the cleansweep still only has 4 right?

ARGH!

bklynpanman

correct.. you will lose 5.1 Alpine is coming out with something similiar to cleansweep.. keep an eye out for that.. not sure home many channels though

meyersnole

You can check out the Rockford Fosgate 3.sixty. It will give you 5.1, but you will lose the ability to control the volume through the head unit (or steering wheel).

http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/produ...5&locale=en_US

Thanks for the update, I hope this is not the only solution.

BTW, do a search on the JL Cleansweep in this forum -- they have their share of problems too with noise. I have not seen anyone who has tried the 3.sixty yet.

meyersnole

Okay, got rid of 99% of the hiss by changing the setting on the amp for Input voltage from low to high. Have not heard it yet, but he (installer) says you have to get right up on top of the speakers to hear the hiss. Hope this works for you.

zax123

I tried that and my volume went WAY down! What does he have the gain settings on the LOC to? Mine are near max...

zax123

Why doesn't stock volume work on the 3SIXTY anymore? It takes the speaker level out from the amp or does it take pre-amp out from the head unit?

Leo99TL

Congrats on solving the problem, your car is pimpin bro.

zax123

meyers,

I'd really like to hear back from you once you've heard the hiss or lack thereof. And also, if you could tell me the settings on your Navone LOCs and the gain settings on your JL amps. I'm going to try turning the gains way down on the LOCs and way up on the JL amps... maybe that'll work. Cuz as far as I can tell, the JLs introduce ZERO noise into the system. They are so awesome.

zax123

The reason I'm wary to do the LOW to HIGH input voltage switch is HIGH is reserved for when you use speaker level inputs to the amp, and since we're using LOCs, we should be using LOW. otherwise, we could go straight from the speaker out on the stock amp to the JLs and skip the Navone entirely.

meyersnole

I have not picked up the car yet. I will talk to my installer and confirm the solution tonight. I will be sure to post my results.

meyersnole

The way I understand these things work are you send a signal to the unit and then tune (EQ) the sound. When you move the volume up and down the nature of the signal changes -- so you would need to re equalize the sound. So, you have a seperate control for the volume. Don't have one, just looked into it. So I am just relaying what my installer told me. He says there is a dramatic sound improvement, but from why I heard with the LOCs (minus the hiss) I wont miss it at all and I want normal volume control.

Yes you do place it after the HU and remove the amp. But this processor is reworking the preamp signal. Its expecting a constant signal. You can probably find out a lot more about it at the Rockford Fosgate site. The other disadvante is the cost. $300 street for the cheapest one, $300 more for the step up. It will give you an IPod input if that is important to you.

meyersnole

Thanks! Will post pics later.

meyersnole

I picked up the car, but I do not think that I am happy with the solution. The hiss is not noticable anymore but the system is not as ballsy as it was yesterday (Still gets LOUD -- does not sound the same). We had another issue with one of the LOCs losing a channel so I have a new one on order. We have a cheaper LOC temporarily installed... that may be causeing some problems for me. I will let you know what the final answer is when I have it. Please keep me informed of your progress as well.

zax123

Well, I just went out there. I lowered the gains on the David Navone LOCs WAY down and pumped up the gains on the amp. The hiss was noticeably less, but it was still there and still pretty much too much so. There shouldn't be any hiss with the high-end components we're using. There was no hiss with the stock h/u.

Yeah, I think you have less balls cuz of the HIGH voltage setting. I did that once and it KILLED the sound on my front channels (the channels I was testing that with).

It seems we have to do some more investigating here...

I'm rewiring my electrical a bit tonight, so I'll try this stuff tomorrow morning. FUN.

Kirk3272

iTrader: (1)

The hiss is coming from the OEM components. Adding an aftermarket amp just amplifies what is already there. The best/cheapest way I have found is to simply splice RCAs into the OUTPUT of the OEM amp then into the aftermarket stuff. Unless you want to convert to a Zapco balanced system as I have. You do have to use their amps then.

If you are going to use the Navone piece, turn it all the way up and turn your amps all the way down. The volume is not near as good and it will clip the amps when you get up to around 35.

Good luck!

Kirk
2005 MECA SQ World Champ
2005 Acura TL
Pics---> MobileSQ.com in the gallery

King of Pain

I have my amp's gain down low and the navones at max. The only noise I get is what is recorded on the music. DVD-A is very clean. If you disconnected the LOCs and the noise went away then the noise is coming from somewhere b4 the LOCs. I would suggect you review your wiring diagram to insure the right colored wires from the amp are going to the LOCs. Here is the wiring diagram for the stock amp. You probably have this already but I post it for others. The A connector is the signal out from the stock amp. The B connector is the signal into the amp from the HU





BTW Kirk awesome system. I checked your gallery. Very clean install. Those zapco amps make me drool. Can you give me some specs on the system?

zax123

Kirk,

When I turn LOC gain way up and amp gain way down, that's when I get the most noise. When LOC gain is way down and amp gain is way up, the noise isn't as loud... I'm so confused.

The OEM system didn't hiss at all when it was using just the stock components, why is it hissing now?

Kirk3272

iTrader: (1)

Amps are rated at 150x4. I have all three bridged for a rated 300x2 each. One on the tweets, one on the doors and one on the subs. The spec sheets that came with amp have all three over 580 x 2. So I am running a little over 3K watts to six speakers. Digital delay and 31 band parametric EQ per speaker in the processor and 10 band parametric per speaker in the amps itself.

I will be at Nopi, Atlanta in September, Elite Summer show in Spartanburg, SC in August and most any MECA show in Alabama. (MECAcaraudio.com) Stop by.

Kirk

Kirk3272

iTrader: (1)

Amps are rated at 150x4. I have all three bridged for a rated 300x2 each. One on the tweets, one on the doors and one on the subs. The spec sheets that came with amp have all three over 580 x 2. So I am running a little over 3K watts to six speakers. Digital delay and 31 band parametric EQ per speaker in the processor and 10 band parametric per speaker in the amps itself.

I will be at Nopi, Atlanta in September, Elite Summer show in Spartanburg, SC in August and most any MECA show in Alabama. (MECAcaraudio.com) Stop by.

Kirk

Kirk3272

iTrader: (1)

Is the LOC on the output of the head unit or the amp? Even last year when I used all Orion amps I had to keep the LOC up and the amps down. What kind of amps are you using? The old school Orions(from 99-2000) were better with the noise then a couple new amps I tried before the Zapco's. Take the LOC out and splice RCAs into the output of the amp. See what that does. Worked like a charm for me.

Good Luck!

Kirk

zax123

Really? you skipped the LOCs altogether? I'll try that... I'm using JL Audio 300/4 for fronts and e4300 for rears... I'll do the direct line in thing and set the amps to high-level inputs.

Thanks for the advice. I hope this works.

meyersnole

Did it work?

zax123

meyers,

I actually didn't get a chance to try it yet. My main amp the 300/4 just DIED on me!!! I still get hiss from the rears on my e4300, so I can try that tonight. I'm so discouraged!!

meyersnole

I didn't think that the e series amps had Hi level input.

Bummer on the amp, 90 day warranty on self install so get it back quick!

zax123

eSeries has better hi-level in than the / series... Separate individual wires input. With / series, gotta solder RCAs to the wires. GRR...

I'll keep y'all posted.

meyersnole

Any update? Mine is with the installer tomorrow to get a new LOC installed.

Kirk3272

iTrader: (1)

Switched mine from splicing RCAs into the amp outputs to three Zapco converters into the Zapco DSP6 last Wednesday. More volume, no hiss. I still think it can be better. I met the engineer from Panasonic at an IASCA/MECA Regional stereo contest. I have mailed him to see what his thoughts are. Down side of the Zapcos are you have to use their amps. Upside is I can go all the way up to 40 and the system doesn't clip. This is strictly a SQ system. 3K watts on 6 speakers. Scored a 87.5 out of 100 at a show yesterday using the factory head unit, amp and stock speaker locations with a small sub box, no center channel. With a little time alignment the car images perfectly.

Kirk

zax123

Mine is a disaster. I haven't tried splicing RCAs and going straight to the JL amps yet. My crossovers for my Z6s have both blown somehow. I had an accident so I haven't played with it while the car is being repaired. My sub amp overheats and shuts down after 10 minutes of use. All in all, a complete disaster. I'm likely going to bring the car to a professional and have it properly taken care of once I get it back from the shop. ARGH.

meyersnole

Sorry to hear. I give you major credit for trying, I read a few of the posts on the board and decided the job was way over my head to begin with.

Good luck and hope all works out in the end.

CaryTL

sorry I may have missed something... but the signals from factory headunit are line level, fed into a small amp. why don't you bypass this small amp and LOCs, just use the line level outputs directly?