ParaSurfer1979

You'd be the 1st TL I know that put 1in smaller speakers than stock (6.25"). Go 6.5". The focals might have huge magnets that wont clear the doors and thats why they are saying 5.25 so they'll fit. I'm telling you to get as much mid-bass as you can do 6.5 bro . They can make room even if the need to add a 1/2" thick ring so they clear.

jda123

They won't fit in the stock holes. You will need about a 1.25" inch spacer and they will fit... or a 3/4" and you can cut the door metal a little bit.

It is worth it to go through the hassle of getting the 6.5 to fit. Do it.

eggyhustles

They'll fit with a spacer

jda123

This is all that they are:

http://cgi.ebay.com/MDF-Speaker-ring...item255ce4be24

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

That's freakin' awesome.. thank you so much for all of the info everyone. Im excited to go with the 6.5s

I was planning to make the rings myself if possible with a jig saw.. can I use wood from a shelving unit, or something similar.. or would MDF yield the best results?

If I can craft something 1 inch.. will I need to cut anything? And if I added a smaller spacer, where would I be cutting on the door? Is this something I can do with a rotary tool?

Lastly how are the spacers mounted to the door? The speakers would be screwed into the spacer, and the spacer would be screwed or bolted into the door? Should I add some sound deadening mat between the spacer and the door to reduce any potential vibrations, or are they secure enough when mounted?


Thanks again!

Nick337

iTrader: (2)

There are dirt cheap on ebay for spacers, i mean it wouldn't even be worth my time to take the saw out and go buy wood for that cheap. I used screws to hold the spacers onto the doors, then mounted the speakers to the spacers, you will need to enlarge the hole for the speaker to fit.

jda123

You will need to mount the ring first.

I put a layer of sound deadener between the ring and the door - not sure if it right, but I do it as a gasket. Drill some holes and countersink the ring screws into the wood so that the speaker will mount flush. Then, predrill the speaker holes and mount the speaker in at least 4 places.

I guestimate (industry term) that you could go about 1 and 3/8" spacer and get the door panel back on without interfering with the speaker. If the panel will interfere, then you will need to cut some metal. You can cut metal with a rotozip with a metal cutting blade - just clean up the shavings inside of the door when you are done.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Ugh.. shipping to Canada is apparently $25. Twice the cost of the ring itself. Really annoying.

I'm trying to visualize what exactly needs to be cut here.. Is it the hole on the door that the speaker sits inside, or is there something behind the hole where the speaker magnet would be that needs to be cut? Is it metal thats being cut?

jda123

Depth is not the issue. The hole size in the door is not very wide. The spacer helps some with the depth, but also moves the speaker forward where the back of the speaker might be able to fit into the smaller door hole. If you have to cut, it is just the interior metal on the door panel. It is thin metal that is easy to cut. I stuff a rag down in the bottom to catch most of the shavings and then I go in there with a magnet and double sided tape to get the rest.

MDF works best for rings.

jda123

Hey - the ring might be enough for the speaker to fit. However, if you do get the polyglass, they won't fit with 3/4" MDF rings - you need more. Trust me, the basket on my Focals is the nearly same size and I had to cut about a quarter of an inch all the way around. 99% sure.

1" might work, but I don't know.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the previous tips, I will definitely be utilizing them during the install.

I dont have a problem with cutting if necessary.. did you just use a rotary tool with the grinder bit to shave it down?

Thanks for clarifying that depth isnt the issue as I thought it was. So if 1" doesnt work, or isnt enough clearance.. does that mean the spacer is useless? Or would I still be using it AND just shaving the hole at the same time...

jda123

Use the ring. Only cut the door metal to make the speaker just barely fit with the ring.

Not grinder, but a cutting bit. I broke a rotoary tool bit that was for wood and ceramic. I bought a metal cutting bit and it cut through it like butter.

Something like:
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_1...u=SPM224930277
and:
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/too...4009_200334009

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Ah! Just drill a hole and then cut upwards (or downwards)... sounds fair enough.

Hopefully I can find one of those tools locally.. looks like this is going to cost me close to an extra $100 to just place the speakers in the door.

Is it worth the extra cost to mount these as opposed to getting the 5.25s? I didn't get a chance to hear anything smaller than 6.5 so I couldn't compare.

sddale

Go through the trouble of making the 6.5's fit. It is totally worth it for the difference in sound between the 5.25's.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

^ Thanks sddale.

RBeachTL

Some have reported success with tin snips; I used them with some success on the thinner, rear part of the door. The part of the door nearer the hinges is thicker than the rest and tin snips were not a good choice there. I have a jig saw blade adapter for my Dremmel tool and using the jig saw blade was the best, most accurate method for me to cut the thicker door material.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

^ Thanks for the heads up! I have a reinforced metal cutting wheel for my dremel... I think that would work pretty well too.. but I'll keep an eye out for the jig saw bit.... would you happen to have a link?

This may be easier than buying a new tool set.. although I can see the RotoZip coming in handy for lots of other applications.

RBeachTL

I tried the cutting wheel on my Dremmel without a lot of success; I just couldn't hold it steady enough to make the circular cuts through the steel. The jug saw attachment is from Dremmel; it came in my kit. I bet you can find it on the Dremmel site.

Good Luck

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks again.. I'll keep that in mind.

For the MDF rings.. Could I just pick up some 3/4" and 1/2" board and glue them together to get 1.25? 1" isnt available but 3/4 and 1/2 is easy to find locally.. Im just wondering if gluing the MDF together would be bad for resonance/vibrations...

RBeachTL

I may be a minority here but I don't like MDF because of how it's effected by moisture; it basically disintegrates the MDF unless its treated. If you live in a dry climate you can get away with MDF but in a wetter climate MDF can be problematic.

Do you have a router? If you do get a "jasper jig" and you can make perfect rings very easily. If you go this route you can use plastic material. If you want you can go crazy like I did.



on the rear deck



for the door



Not everyone will want to go this route but these were easy to make and using threaded inserts I've been able to remove and replace the drivers when ever I need to without wearing out the baffles.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Alright... gearing up for the install this weekend. Im just trying to visualize the wiring before I start so I drew it out quick and just want someone to confirm if I understand everything correct. I have a couple of questions as well.




Questions:

- Where does the remote wire come into play? Does this run from the power wire or battery terminal?

- I assume the back seat and rear deck will need to be removed to get the wires to and from the trunk, will the front seats need to be removed for anything, or can all the wires run safely down the side?

- As for connecting the speaker wires coming from the stock amp, I just want to confirm it's a matter of finding the corresponding colour (here) and matching the pos and neg to an RCA that runs to the aftermarket amp input.

- Lastly the tweeters. If I were to run the new tweeters in the stock location, would I be ok using the stock wires there, or should new wires be run? If so, how would I go about running new wires behind the dash like that?

I hope it's not much of a hassel to answer these questions. Really appreciate the help.

jda123

It is easy to run new wires to the tweeters. Feed some wire down from the top and look for it underneath.

If you remove the rear bottom seat, you should be able to easily fish wires into the trunk. Leave the back of the seat on unless you cannot manage. You should be able to get most wires down the side.

You can use the remote wire going to the stock amp to turn on the aftermarket amp. Somebody posted that it did not work for them, but it did for me. Or, this is easy:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthr...ht=remote+fuse

Your wiring plan looks right. 2 options with the crossover:
1). Run 1 wire up front and have the crossover in the door, dash, kickpanel, etc. and only run 2 sets of wire just long enough to reach the speakers from the kickpanels.
2). Run 2 full sets of wire and have the crossover in the trunk. This is best if you ever plan to upgrade or go active where you want the speakers to have independent wiring.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks jda! Really excited to have everything confirmed like that. I actually did pick up 2 full sets of speaker wire so that I could keep the crossovers in the trunk I'll definitely approach it that way.

With the remote switch, did you have to do anything with the wire for radio remote switch ground (brown)? Or all you had to do was run the pos grn/red to the amp and leave the ground in the stock amp.

Lastly, the shop that I picked up all of my gear from told me it would be in my best interest to replace the stock speaker wires that go through the door up to the speakers themselves. (as opposed to just wiring the amp outs to the stock speaker wire). Is this an easy task? Would it really make a difference?

Thanks again. Don't know where I'd be without all of this good info.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

bump... has anyone replaced the wires going to the speakers through the doors? i have everything apart right now and the wires go to a connector in the door and then from the connector it goes out the door into the car... not sure how i would replace those wires with that damn connector there..

are the stock wires sufficient enough or should they be replaced?


progress so far: http://img190.imageshack.us/g/imag0056oy.jpg/

RBeachTL

I ran new wires for my speakers but it probably isn't necessary unless you are running a lot of power. I think the speaker wire is 18 AWG which is good for 16 amps continuous. Driving 500W into a 2 ohm load creates 16 amps. So as long as you are using less than 500W/channel you will be OK.

I ran new wires because I was locating my amps into my trunk so it was more convenient to run new wires then splice into the existing harness.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the advice. I am also putting the amp in the trunk but replacing the wires inside the door and the shroud going into the car seems like adding a lot more work, no? How did you deal with the connector inside the door?

I hate cars

Agreed with RBeachTL. I did it anyway. I ran the new wire through the factory grommet (between the door and body). I drilled a hole in the factory connector in a dead space and ran it through. From the outside you can't tell anything has been done. I've seen others cut a notch toward the outside of the connector. That might be a better way. I don't believe that better wire gives better SQ but since I spent $1,800 on just the front stage (including hardware), I figured better safe than sorry.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

^ Good call... Making a hole in the connector is the first thing that came to mind when I was looking at it.. thanks for confirming.

More progress.. just finished the sound deaden with b-quiet ultimate butyl deadener.

First time installing deadener so I hope it works out.

I hate cars

Looks good, what are you going to seal the holes with? The only thing you might have done differently is waited until you know if you'll have to cut the doors to fit whatever mids you choose. You can still cut it of course but it might get a little messy lol.

Don't forget the door panels too. Once you get one vibration fixed, another pops up. It seems like it's never ending. Once I installed the Dynaudios, I had all kinds of new rattles. I got everything fixed by dynamatting the heck out of the door panels but I still have a resonance in the aluminum strip toward the top of the panel. I just can't get rid of that one. It's very high pitched and sounds as loud as the speaker itself.

shtewps

iTrader: (1)

I already fitted the speakers with the 1.25" spacers I made and I don't have to cut a thing Im really happy about that... I wanted to wait until I had them mounted to say anything but the cats out of the bag. jda was right, 1.25" just clears it.. my speakers anyway. I know they're all different.

What exactly do you mean by sealing the holes?

And don't forget about the door panels? Don't tell me you deadened inside the door panel as well?! I only have 12 sqft of it, so I can't deaden much of anything else aside from the doors themselves at the moment.

I hope I don't have resonance after deadening.. hopefully you're running a lot more power than I am and that's why Maybe I have a chance to get away with murder here..

Mug

Any updates? I have the same questions:

1) How and if covering the holes helps.
2) Does deadening the outside door skin help much?

I had trouble fitting my door panels back on with a 1" spacer. I just ordered a 3/4 MDF and I think I have to cut my inside panel to get my speakers to fit.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

3/4" will fit fine. 1" should fit fine also. Make sure you don't place the the baffle to far up the door or the panel will have trouble going back on.

1. It will make a large difference. With nothing there you're likely getting quite a bit of cancellation.

One way to do it is by using MLV (Mass Loaded Vinyl). By using MLV between the door panel and door sheet metal you create a basically acoustically impermeable barrier. This will get 90% of the job done. That last 10 percent is because it wont be completely sealed like the 2nd option I'll tell you. Meaning..even when you squeeze that door panel back on and it gets compressed in there, you'll still have some areas that might not be completely pressed up perfectly against the door and sealed perfectly. Still....90% or so is damn close!

Another way is to use some sheet metal/aluminum flashing and secure it around that hole by screwing it onto the door panel or whatever. Then, you'd need to deaden that new sheet metal you attached. Now your door looks and acts like one large piece with no gaps.


2. Deadening the outer skin helps a ton. You WILL need to do it. If you don't get resonance in your door panels...something is wrong. It's easy to do and cheap for what you get.

I HATE HATE HATE rattles. The TL is a rattle bucket & I'm always trying to tackle all rattles that arent related to my audio.

RBeachTL

^ You don't want to completely seal the door; it has to have drain holes at the bottom for rain and such. The most important thing sealing the front surface of the door does is to prevent the back wave from the driver reflecting off of the outer door panel and interfering with the front wave. I did the MLV like TM suggested because I wanted to retain easy access to the door lock and window mechanisms. The MLV is attached with velcro.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Here's SDS's MLV. Also attached with heavy duty velcro and has a layer of CCF adhered to the back using a strong adhesive. That's with my 3/4" spacer with a slight bit recessed. I really want to pick up an 8", 7" baffle PLUS another 6.5" that's about 1.5" thick to see if I can get it to fit more flush and up close to the door panel.

pohljm

So? is that double sided adhesive velcro just along the top to hold it in place until the door panel sandwiches it?

pohljm

Are you just using the velcro across the of the panel to hold it in place till its sandwiched by the door panel?

RBeachTL

The velcro holds the MLV in place not the door panel; although I'm sure that the panel does provide some added retention. The MLV stays in place when I remove the door panel.

pohljm

I understand that part, I was just wondering in how many places you have applied the velcro to the MLV?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

3 pieces on top, 2 on the sides and 2 on the bottom. The SDS MLV is thick & heavy.