lembowski

iTrader: (1)

I have been reading over quite a few threads on replacing the stock sub with a more powerful aftermarket one. It seems everyone is saying no,no,no. But, I don't see why it wouldn't sound good? I mean if you replace the factory free air speaker with an upgraded free air speaker/amp combination would that not sound good? I know Kicker used to make a free-air sub that came in a 8' size.

Say you were to replace the stock sub with the Kicker with an adequate amp to run the sub.......what do you guys think?

Adamo0926

A stereo installer that listened to my stock system was pretty impressed with what the OEM sub can do. Now with that being said, I believe an aftermarket sub can give you quite an improvement if done the right way. First I would can the idea of getting another free air sub. Go with some kind of sub box, either a sealed or vented box. Right now I prefer the sealed box because it seems to sound less boomy and a little more musical than a vented box. Depends on how your taste runs. And make sure you get sufficient power to drive it, as subwoofers need to move a lot of air. I know that when I added a sub box to my former car (a VW Jetta), the results were dramatic. I plan on upgrading my TL as well but I think the results will be less dramatic with regards to the sub because the Jetta had no stock sub whatsoever.

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Yeah that being said, I don't want a sub box in my trunk! I don't mind attaching a small amp to the back of the seats or somewhere not incredibly noticable. Has anyone tried this, or heard of this?

Black_05_TL_6SP

I have to say it, and this is as an installer, the factory TL system is very lacking. Sound quality is good, but not near enough sound, nor bass. Free air subs are something of the past, don't use them. If you are looking for good tight bass without having to worry about having to much bass, you will want to use a 10" sub in a sealed box. If you want more bass and don't mind giving up trunk space, go with a square port box with either a single 12" or dual 10's. If you are just wanting a ton of bass and really don't care about the trunk at all then go with 2 12's in a square port box.

I have two eights right now in a sealed box, it's more bass then factory but not enough for me. I was playing with the box design, so I am going to take it up to a single 12. Here is a link to a thread of my current box. Sub Box Link

But please don't try to do a free air!!

Jason

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Black_05_TL_6SP when your ready to upgrade to that 12, let me know. I'll buy your set up if you want to sell it.

I do agree that the stock set-up sounds good, I just need alittle more low end. I don't want to go back to when I was in high school with 2 12's.......I still think I am showing hearing loss from then. I just want alittle more, ya know. I just assumed that having the same set-up with a little more to it would give me that little boost I was looking for.

itsjac

Jl audio make a a real good 8" free air sub that fit into the old tl sub opening. I installed one with a 250/1 Jl amp and it's night and day compared to the old sub. Paid 89 for the sub and 299 for the amp... Jac

Black_05_TL_6SP

I hope to offer the boxes over the summer. I am going to build a mold and make them to order. There will be several options. As of right now, I know that I can do dual 8", single and dual 10", and the 12 I still have to test. Jason

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Any idea on what you will be charging?

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, that is acutually what I was wanting to hear. I might just do this set-up until Black_05_TL_6SP starts selling his boxes.

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Hey can you link me up to the JL free air 8. I'm looking at their site and can't put my finger on it.

Toronto-TL

http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_s...p?series_id=22

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I saw where all the subs noted on free air resonance so I didn't know which one was needed. I guess the specialty subgroup is what that is for. I wonder if the W3v2 8 would fit in the back deck? It has a free air resonance similar to the 8WO......

VtecMW

Would the dual 10" options be two 10s in one mold, similar to your dual 8s? Or, are you talking about a molded 10" enclosure to place on each side of the trunk?

Sign me up for a 10" enclosure!

Black_05_TL_6SP

They would be in the same mold. As for the price, I am not exact on that yet. It would be in the 300-400 range. Before I can start any sales or inquires I would need to talk to the moderators here first, and register as a vendor. Jason

Kracker

I'm looking real hard at that free air JL sub. I've had my share of loud stereos. All I want is just a little extra bump. Not rearview mirror shaking bass...

Its a toss up, this or that infinity amp/sub combo...

Black_05_TL, why do we not want free air subs? Not accurate musicly? Not loud enough? Not enough bass? Stock isnt that bad, musicly atleast, and its made of crap and not powered for crap. But still not that bad.

Thanks

Black_05_TL_6SP

Free air is not very good at accurately reproducing low bass(20-40 HZ). To get good bass response, it really requires the sub to be in a sealed box. You could just as easily change the amp on the factory sub and you would gain sound. The factory amp is just not very strong. Actually the factory speakers are fairly good speakers. They are a version of alpines DDR speakers that have the neodymium magnet on them. The whole problem in the car is the factory amp.

cacicgt7

Infinity basslink...

Black_05_TL_6SP

The basslink sounds good, but not enough power to work well in the TL. I have installed quite a few of them so I know. Because of the way the trunk is designed to reduce sound entering from the trunk, it is hard to get sound in to the car. When adding a sub in it, you will need to either remove some of the padding between the trunk and the back seat, ride with the back seat center arm rest down, or remove the stock sub to let some of the sound carry in that way. I just did a basslink in a mercedes this weekend, you could barely tell it was in there. They sound great in hatchbacks and SUVs or trucks, but not great in luxury cars! Just a heads up.

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Any suggestion on an amp that would fit in the kick panel, but would add enough power to get it a few notches higher?

I just really hate the idea of a free standing unit in the trunk. I really want something to fit flush like Black_05_TL_6SP fiberglass unit o just replacing the the existing stuff to make the increase. Also after listening to the baslik on my friends 5 Series it sounded good but not as good as what you could get for that price. By the way I don't like buying audio equipment off ebay......been burning a few times on as-is. So a BestBuy price of $300 is outrageous in my opinion.

Adamo0926

Lem,

Be aware that doubling the power creates about a 3 db increase in SPL. So lets a system is capable of generating SPL of about 115 dbs and has say 20 watts/channel. 40 watts/channel would then get you up to about 118 dbs, 80 watts/channel up to 121 dbs, 160 watts/channel up to 124 dbs....and so on. Now that is for peak power....obviously if you were cranking out 120 or more dbs constantly you would affect your hearing.

I don't know how much power per channel the factor amp pumps out....I suspect 20 watts or so maybe less. I think if you got an amp that put out 50 or 75 watts per channel of RMS power you could raise the SPL about 6 or 7 dbs....which I think would be fairly significant.

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

I would definately like to find an Amp that would fit where the stock one does and has more wattage. Are the stock speakers able to handle this increase in wattage? Or will I have to install all new speakers to do this installation? If anyone sees an amp that fits the size specs of our stock amp, and has more power 50-75watts a channel let me know!

Adamo0926

Lem,

I would guess that the stock speakers are not designed to handle the increased power load. However, unless you are planning on listening to your system at window shattering levels constantly, you shouldn't have to worry about frying the speakers. Clean power is not the culprit....it's distortion that spells doom for speaker drivers.

chill_dog

Wow, this is the thread I've been looking for for 2 years! Like some of these guys, I just want more boom in my bass, but not sound like my old set up (3 JL 10's w/ 800 watt Fosgate amp).

I find the stock speakers, sub aside, to be very good. I have had my stereo turned up to levels that actually hurt a little and they are crystal clear and work perfectly. The sub, on the other hand, sucks, as turning up the stereo as I mentioned blew it (not the only one according to my service dept, either). Now that warm weather is here, I've got the windows down and it cranked, and it sounds like the sub is starting to go again (I wonder how many times Acura will replace a blown sub).

Anyway, a better amp that will fit in the stock amp's location, along with a better sub (that JL 8 looks pretty good) would be perfect. If any of you audio experts know of such an amp, please share because even though I've put mods on hold, this is one I'll spring for without hesitation.

Black_05_TL_6SP

I do not know of any amp that would fit in the factory location. The amp is very small in comparison to a aftermarket amp. It is roughly 6-7" wide and 8-9" tall. Compared to my aftermarket 6 channel amp at 24" long and 14" wide. To get a 6 Channel amp to fit in the factory location would be difficult(to say the least).

As per the question of the factory speakers handling the power. They should not have a problem, UNLESS, you take them to the point that they are distoring, as that is what does the most damage. Loud sound is produced my having control of the speakers as the move and produce the sound. Distortion is cliping of the speaker, this is due to underpowering the speaker. It reaches its maximum ability due to power, and the sin wave signal flatens at the top and bottom, this is called cliping.

Adamo0926

Chilldog,

Be aware that the stock amp is a 5.1 channel amp to power all 6 channels of the surround sound signal that is decoded by the head unit (for DVD-A discs obviously). There are very few of these amps currently on the market. If you replace the stock amp with a multi-channel amp that is 5 channels (of which there are many on the market), you are going to lose the power to the center channel speaker. This is the dilemma I am facing at the moment. My installer will probably keep the stock amp and let it power the center channel speaker as it's doing now and mount the aftermarket 5 channel amp elsewhere. This way I can keep all 6 channels when playing DVD-A discs. Unless you find a reasonably priced 5.1 amp out there, it's going to have to be a mulit-amp application to keep the surround.

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

I think I'm just going to run over to my installer this weekend and pick his brain on my dilemma. I'll see if relacing the Stock Sub and adding an AM amp will sound better. I'm pretty partial to JL, so I'm looking at the 8' freeair and the 250/1 solution.

chill_dog

Well, none of my CD's are DVD-A, and I don't plan on getting any (the music I buy doesn't come in that format, doubt it will start), so losing the center channel speaker is irrelevant to me. Given this, and what you say, I can get a 5 channel amp and I'll be ok? If so, do you know of a 5 channel amp that will fit in the stock location and run the stock set up plus an aftermarket sub like the JL 8 mentioned earlier?

SaugaTL

Hi Guys,
This is my first post here, but I thought I would weigh in on this. I have the same dilemma with the sub. I have (so far) kept all of the speakers stock, but I did add an amp to power the factory sub. It is a big improvement, but it does bottom out frequently at higher volumes and more rattles show up.

Now that the warmer weather is approaching I'm looking to improve on this set up. I would be interested to hear of how replacing the sub with a free air sub sounds if anyone does this. I'm also looking into a single 8" or 10" in a sealed box too.

Adamo0926

Chill,

I don't know what the dimesnsions of the factory amp are....but someone on here probably does.

Adamo0926

Sauga,

Bottoming out is caused by excursion limits of the cone....the amount of distance the cone can move back and forth. This is much more important for a sub than other speakers because a subwoofer needs to move a lot of air to recreate the low frequency soudwaves. I would guess that most good aftermarket subs will have excursion capabilities that far exceed the stock sub.

I would definitely go with a sealed or ported box (depending on how your bass taste runs) rather than with free air. To me the bass is much tighter and more musical in a sealed box application than free air. Plus it should help eliminate the rattles and buzzes associated with the sub being attached to the rear deck.

cacicgt7

I know there are a couple people that have installed the basslink while taking out the stock sub saying that it worked quite good. I don't know from experience obviously, but for a person that doesn't want their car shaking, but rather more bass than the stock system...Basslink + dynomat is a pretty good combo

King of Pain

Here's a picture of amp in relation to the other stock speakers. I't pretty small, about the size of a book. When I get home I can give you some measurements. The amp works well with the stock speakers, but that's it. The stock speakers work well with the amp, but that's it. That's the way it was designed.


[IMG][/IMG]

chill_dog

Man that thing small...just once I'd like to see a car manufacturer put in a decent system stock so people don't have to replace everything...maybe make it an option, but something.

KoP - measurements would be appreciated...maybe there's something out there that will be a good replacement.

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

My roommate has a new Ford Mustang with a 1000w "Shaker" system.......man it sounds great stock!

Black_05_TL_6SP

I said that the basslink is nice, but, the problem with the car is the amount of bass it lets through the back seat. If you leave your back armrest down and remove the sub, you will get more sound through. As for teeth shaking, I have to 8's Not earth shaking any anyway, but a vast improvement over stock. The whole thing of adding a sub is subjective to the end user. What I want in my music may not be what someone else wants. To me the factory system was nice, just not loud enough. I could put it on max volume, and it was still clean, but not loud enough. The sub was only a minor part, as I have replaced all the speakers, the amp and created a subbox. While still not giving up any space. Basslinks and basstubes are nice for what they where designed for, that is to fill in, but if you are wanting real bass, they are really not the way to go. I would rather have a single 10 in a sealed box and a seperate amp. You will get tighter bass that way. The basslink uses a passive radiator on the back of it, this allows for some give in the air in side the box, essentially working like a ported box.

Again, bass is something that is subjective to the listener, as to ask the question of what speaker sounds better, I can't tell you that, because you would need to listen to them and pick for yourself. Try the freeair, it may suit you or try the basslink, it might be what you are looking for. Just because you add subs, doesnt mean you will rattle the trunk, it is all in how it is set up. Mine fire sideways into the trunk, allowing the air to travel into the car more, if you fire subs backwards, you will get the feel that there is more bass, but you will get the trunk rattle. Fire forward will be sound pressure in the cab of the car, you will feel the bass but not hear it as much. There are so many things that go into the setup and I won't even get into messy sounding ported boxes!

Jason

Black_05_TL_6SP

It is nice, but screwed if anything goes bad. They want an arm and a leg to replace that stuff. I have a freind that work in wholesale parts at a ford dealer.

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

Is it not covered a warranty?

SaugaTL

Thanks Adam. I figured an aftermarket free air would be better than stock, but I don't think it will give me what I want. I am leaning towards a single 10" in a sealed box. I don't need the whole car to shake, but I do like to have good bottom end (especially at low volumes). Any recommendations on a single 10" that would sound good in a small enclosure?

ITL

A twist on Black's sub box, might be to make a custom fiberglass enclosure that bolts up to the rear deck, utlizing the stock location, and not sacrificing a whole lot of trunk space. Now, you might be stuck with just an 8" speaker. I don't know if there's a way to accomodate a 10" sub with a little bit of cutting. Maybe I can see when I get the rear apart to install my coilovers....jsut a thought.

FinallyGotMine

First of all, I have a question that I have been unable to find an answer to. With all of this talk about replacing speakers, does anyone know if there is some sort of signal processing done by the factory head unit to make up for the inadequacies of the stock speakers? I may be incorrect, but I believe that there are some auto manufacturers out there that rely on boosting specific frequency ranges to make their stock speakers sound better rather than using a better speaker (i.e. an equalizer DSP in the factory head unit). If this is the case, one would be cautious to replace the stock speakers with higher quality units as the new ones may actually sound worse!

Second, I listen to all genres of music (except for country and polka… Johnny Cash being the exception) and have a used a single JL 12 in a sealed enclosure with 400 watts RMS in my previous car. I have found it to be a near perfect bass solution. It can be loud, when you want to bump techno or rap (using a sub adjustment via the head unit like what the TL has), yet it is still accurate enough (at lower levels) so that it really defines the bottom end of an orchestra performance. It is my opinion that you can’t get this response with a ported enclosure. In addition, I adamantly agree with Black_05_TL_6SP, STAY AWAY FROM FREE-AIR SUBS! For those who are concerned with trunk space, but still want the bottom end, I think there is a solution. Use a sub box that you can remove from the car. Run your power cable to for an aftermarket amp to a distribution block (or single fuse) in the trunk. (Please remember to also ALWAYS fuse your power cable at the battery too kids!). Fabricate a harness consisting of the ground, power, accessory, and speaker/signal leads so that you only have one connection to make (due to noise issues, you may want to do two harnesses, one for the signal leads and the other for the power, ground, and accessory). Mount the amp to the sub box so all you have to do is disconnect the harness, pop the fuse in the trunk, and pull the box out. If you’re uncomfortable with pulling the fuse, you could also install a circuit breaker/switch instead.