Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

G5's are good sounding subs. Not sure how they look (parameter-wise) for IB, but I'd keep the 2 g5's

BukvaMan

I dont wanna put two, its becoming heavy... Thats why i thought maybe one idmax would provide enough output and its very popular in an IB configuration...

pohljm

go 15! shipping weight on mine was 16lbs

rich20730

Based on t/s parameters, the displacement of one IDmax vs. two G5's is pretty close:

One IDMAX: 2,750 cm^3
Two G5's: 2,994 cm^3

eggyhustles

So port 1.

IB isn't the end to all be.

BukvaMan

which one exactly ??

there is a new idmax 15 coming out soon

pohljm

Now dont laugh.................Pyle PLWB15D
They are very inexpensive but work extremely well in IB.

Fs:20, Qms:4.0, Qes:0.75, Qts:0.65, Vas (Cu ft)4.8

I hate cars

People seem to love the Pyles IB. I want to try a set.

A 15 IDMax? I've been waiting on one of those for years! That would be awesome if it had the same sound characteristics and excursion as the 12. I can only imagine just one of those would be a monster. Two would be crazy.

The IB15 weighs only 17lbs. The Pyle is even lighter, but an IDMax 15 sounds so tempting.

pohljm

http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...00w-power.html

Best 50$ I have spent on this car! Haha Only about 8 inches deep too!

rich20730

You mean a Powerbass designed IDmax 15? No thanks.

I hate cars

So true. You're a buzzkill lol. Now that I think about it, will this be the first non Eric and Matt new "ID" product?

I hate cars

Would it be possible to try it out with the trunk open? I'm just curious how the response changes. With my 12W6, nearly all of the bass went away with the trunk open. With the Tempest 15, a lot of the bass went away. With the IB15s, it doesn't change much at all. I lose just a little upper sub bass and either gain or don't lose the lower sub bass. It's kind of weird considering the TS parameters of the IB15s aren't that much different that the others. I have a theory that the higher Qts single sub of yours will show the same change as my lower Qts pair of 15s have.

Also, I've been meaning to ask the IB guys how the trunk rattles are? It seems as if the pair of 15s have less rattles than the 12 which is really weird but I noticed the same trend in my door speakers.

rich20730

Haha, sorry. In theory, an IDmax 15 would be awesome, assuming it would be on par with the current lineup. I'm really curious to see whether it will closely resemble the V.3 or if they switch designs or start substituting shittier materials.

One of the main reasons I decided to buy Image Dynamics equipment was because Eric seemed like such a cool dude and was always available to answer questions and help people out with his products. It also seemed like Image Dynamics speakers were frequently the standard to which other companies compared their gear. I remember reading a long post by Jon Janowitz comparing the IDmax to the AE AV12 and also comments by Scott Buwalda comparing the HAT lineup to ID. Of course, they were always saying that their product was better, but the fact that ID was considered the main competition says a lot to me.

With that said, although I certainly won't be first in line to purchase the new IDmax, I will be eagerly awaiting reviews and hopefully some Klippel results.

I don't have a ton of rattles because my trunk is pretty thoroughly deadened, but the trunk lid does some severe flexing when I play content in the 20-30hz range.

pohljm

I will check that out. I have popped the trunk while it was playing and didnt notice much, but I wasnt really listening.

EATSLEEPRACE

iTrader: (1)

Im new to this ....what is a IB setup?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

http://home.comcast.net/~infinitelybaffled/

BukvaMan

some updates on my side as i am doing this little by little. I told myself not to touch anything concerning the subwoofer until i have my front stage sounding right and hopefully to a minimum noise floor.

I took out the amp and soldered RCA wires into the head unit for the preamp. I hooked up my 3sixty.1 just to see where im standing at this point. I dont have any form of device anymore to control the 3sixty to do a proper setup. I adjusted the gains on the 3sixty by ear and got the speakers to push some power. The cdt eos 06 drivers were hitting so hard i felt the bass in my seat. I was amazed. There is some noise there which i think can be corrected once i do the setup procedure. For some reason my left speaker is louder and the stage is way off. But as i said nothing is set up properly yet within the 3sixty software....

One thing im wondering, I found out today that the 3sixty has minimum input sensitivity of one volt and the head unit obviously doesn't provide that, should i just go directly to the pdx amp since it does except a low level signal. I would like to get the ms-8 at some point but if im happy with this i might just keep it that way.

some say that the 3sixty has some noise on its own...

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

The 3sixty definitely has a noise floor. I can't remember what PDX amps you have, but pretty much only the new one's don't make much noise. My PDX amps felt....thin and wimpy to me too. Not sure why, but they did. Doesn't hurt to try to take it straight into the PDX though. Just make sure you've got all your x-overs, etc set up correctly and try it out! Let us know what you find


Edit: If you put 1 wipe of Armor-all on the amp, yeah..just lay the wipe on the amp....then it should work perfectly. Steve did this with his and now he's basically running Masconi's.

BukvaMan

so whats the preferred setup to get a low noise floor.

should i go with ms-8 ( its not cheap )

or sell my two pdx amps and go for the alpine pdx v-9 or the jl audio hd900.5 which is 300 more.

pohljm

Jl will work without noise with the low HU input no need for processor unless you want one

BukvaMan

what about the audio control LC7 after the factory head unit ?? woud it maybe be better then the 3sixty in this configuration?? I really have no use of the 3sixty since it doesn't have much control over the crossovers and it doesn't need to alter the signal since im going from the stock head unit.

rich20730

The LC7 is a line out converter, not a line driver so you would have to take the post amp signal, which would be pointless if you're trying to get rid of noise. The Audiocontrol Matrix would work though.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

While you have the Alpines...try them pre-amp. You'll be using that signal anyways so why not wire it up and give it a try. If it doesn't work out then trade/sell the amps OR pick up the RF bld.

BukvaMan

Ok i will just to see ... i just went and adjusted the gain with the setup cd from the 3sixty and at volume 38 - 40 i can get it to clip while not setting the gains really to high at all. at lower volumes it seems i gotta turn it a little more. and then playing with the gains on the pdx i can get really good output while maintaining very acceptable noise levels. This is still withought going trough a 3sixty setup process cause i have to get my hands on a palm device that can control it. But it seems like it will work good.

one question tough, when you guys set the gain of off the stock headunit preamp whats the highest you go on the volume. When i was using the preamp after the stock amp i didnt go past 35.

I wonder if i can go all the way up since there i get a good signal to the 3sixty, altough it might be disorted and that being the reason it starts clipping.

thanx

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

I set it to where I rarely ever go past 30.

BukvaMan

Ok tried directly into an amp and it works great...gain on the pdx is half way up and no noise....past that it starts crackling... Its pretty loud but it could take a little more.. Funny thing is that my left side is louder. The stage is not centered. Im sure it feels louder cause its closer to me but when i change the balance from right to left and play each speaker on its own, it still feels like the left side is louder.

I hate cars

It's hard to do without getting noise but I set mine to where 10 is as loud as you would ever need it, 15 is just showing off.

I do this because the stock HU has a loudness curve to protect the stock speakers that cuts the sub bass and treble the more you turn the volume up. Setting it to where 10 is the max makes it more dynamic and consistent. The other option if the 360 has it is to set the HU volume static and use the processor to turn the volume up and down. I don't know if that's convenient of not. With the MS8 it's a remote control and I'm about to start using it. This would mean I can tune the system to whatever HU volume I choose and never have to worry about the tune changing as the volume changes.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Are you pre-amp? And if I remember correctly most PDX amps have a "level" switch like the JL's...what's that on? (example would be like .2-2v or .8-8v)

I never thought about this. I have mine set to a 25-30 max, but didn't know the HU loudness was that big of a deal. Are you sure it's within the head unit and not the stock amp? If so, then I might do that with the ms-8. Kind of annoying though to use the little remote to turn it up and down all the time.

rich20730

I thought it was the opposite. My understanding was that it has a loudness/dynamic volume feature where the lows and highs are boosted at low volume and it flattens out as you turn it up (~20)

Here's a post from Npdang on diyma where he talks about it on the TSX: http://www.diymobileaudio.com/forum/...pressions.html

"The workaround for this is to use the "aux input" on the h650. Set the volume on your headunit to max before clipping. Now turn the volume up on the h650 to as loud as you can, preferably using a disc that was recorded at low levels. Leave it at that volume and turn down the volume on your hu. Now, you can use the volume control on your headunit... with the caveat that AntEQ will be disabled. For my TSX, that wasn't a problem for me at all since the frequency response of the headunit is ruler flat past half way (20/40 on the knob), and I think the mild bass/treble boost at that low of a volume didn't affect sound quality in the least."

I hate cars

Actually, that's exactly what it does. You could choose to set it at either end of the spectrum but the main goal is to keep the changes to a minimum. That's why I think it's best to use the processor's volume control if possible or to keep the stock HU in a narrow range as I have done. I believe using the processor is the superior way but I don't care for remotes so it might take a little getting used to. Especially with a remote that can be kind of flaky.

I'm sure the contour was fine when stock but with the additional power and dynamics, it's very noticeable with the aftermarket system. I remember Jason (CSWBiggs) used one of those bass reconstructors just for this reason. I couldn't understand why he needed it until I did this system.

I hate cars

I thought I would mention I have a thread open on DIYMA right now in relation to dynamics and the HU. There have been some really interesting replies. It's kind of heading in the direction that I should have kept my 6.5s and used them as a midrange instead of selling them. I'm currently hooked on dynamics at the moment. I'm considering my options but it looks like more power, larger midrange or adding a second set of 430s for the midrange which will probably mean going with the insanely expensive 110 tweeter to keep up. I need to cut this thing off lol.

rich20730

I just got done reading that thread. Interesting stuff. It seems to me that what you're experiencing is just the EQ curve on the head unit gradually moving from a smiley face contour to flat as you turn up the volume. I agree that using the processor remote sucks. If you are going to use the head unit, I agree with what t3sn4f2 said:
I think the topic of dynamics probably warrants its own thread. Like a lot of other terms used to describe the subjective quality of sound, the term dynamics is used differently by different people and in different contexts and therefore is often hard to pin down in any single discussion.

The dynamics you described in that thread seems like it referred more to the fullness and power of the sound rather than its dynamic range. If I was to equate another decriptive term to my understanding of the concept of dynamic range and how it sounds I would say that it sounds more natural above anything else.

BukvaMan

Ok it looks like im gonna stick with going to the amp directly, having the 3sixty in the way can only cause higher noise floor. The Pdx 4.100 doesnt seem to have much noise when i move the gain up and disconnect the preamp.

When i have everything hooked up and the car in the accessory postion everything sound pretty good and loud enough. The Cdt-eo6 produce a really strong mid-bass. One problem i have right now is when the car is running, i hear some crackling in the tweeters. Must be something with the RCA-s. When i move them around in the car it seems to effect the overall noise produced.
I just gotta sort that out somehow...

One thing is that as i mentioned before, i can hear the left side louder. Basically , i cant hear the stereo effect. Listening carefully it seems the same way if i sit in the passenger side, then the passenger side overpowers it. I guess i can balance it out by going -2 to -3 on the unit. Or in this case an ms-8 would do the right thing setting the stage.

I was thinking of the Rockford Fosgate RF-BLD to boost the signal, but how is that different then the 3sixty. and it only comes in two channel. what about the rest ???

You guys that are running an IB system, are you using any rear fill or not? When testing i had everything hooked up at first and the rear seems to cancel out the bass in the front. Even when just using it as rear fill so to speak not loud at all.

Im thinking to bridge the amp to two channel and power the front stage only.

i really need some advice, thanks guys.

I hate cars

If there was cancellation, less bass with the front and rears going together than with just the front, it sounds like one set of speakers was wired out of phase. I've never used rear fill with IB. You would want to seal them from the subs if you plan to use them.

There should be no change when you move the RCAs around, you have a bad RCA or loose connection somewhere. I don't believe in spending a lot of money on RCAs but I don't use the Radio Shack ones either. I buy from Knu Koncepts most of the time but I've had great luck with the place already mentioned online as well.

The BLD has a history of boosting the signal noise free where some people have reported the 360 to have a high noise floor. I can vouch for the BLD, I have the gains up so far right now that #10 on the dial is as loud as you can listen to it and there's virtually no noise. When I have it set normal to where #20 is about the limit, there is no noise.

Plus, the more you boost the signal close to the headunit and get the voltage up for it's journey to the trunk, the lower your chances of getting noise picked up along the way are.

The stereo image you mention will happen without a center or without processing. You can TA and EQ it for the driver's seat and it's going to sound good with a good center image in that seat but sit in the passenger side and it's going to be worse than it is now, the passenger side will be way too loud when you sit over there. The MS8 takes care of this by using a center channel and it gives you a great compromise or 2-seater car. It will still do a one seat setup as well which IMO sounds best because it's optimized for one particular seat. It has the capability to do driver, passenger, front (a compromise for both front seats), and "all" which includes the rears. But again for the best "front" setting, a center should be used to avoid the side you're sitting on sounding too loud.

BukvaMan

^^^^^^

so if you are using the bld for the front channels ... what about the sub?

I spliced rca male connect into existing wires so to go directly to the amp i used radio shack gold plated female connects. They feel very solid. The Rca cables that im using are stinger helix cables... seem kinda good quality too... i have to pairs and with both i experience the same thing.... but since it varies by movement i dont know if one is making it better or not. I gotta find some other one in the house and see. The funny thing is, its not present when the car is not turned on.

I hate cars

That would depend on the amps and processor you're using.

The MS8 only requires a left and right full range signal so only two channels are needed which would be the front left and right. I have the stock HU wiring going into the line driver and from there the two channels go to the MS8 and it splits everything up from there.

If you don't have a processor but have amps that have pre-outs as many do, you can run the two channels from the line driver into one amp and from the pre-outs of that amp into another amp.

If any of the noise you're experiencing is being picked up from the run from the HU to the trunk, the odds are good that the line driver will reduce or eliminate it.

pohljm

I am only using front left and right into the JL 5 channel amp. You will loose HU sub control so you should run a remote gain control. no line driver or processing at this time.

BukvaMan

I have two pdx amps one is a 4channel 100watts rms and the other mono 600 watts rms. None of them have preouts or remote sub control.

Im at lost on what i should do. I guess picking up the preamp from the stock head unit is not as simple as i thought.

$500 for the ms8
another $100 for the bld

and still gotta control everything trough the processor. I guess the head unit is just for looks then...

Im gonna have to try making the best by going directly to the amp. Hopefully i can get rid of that crackling noise, then it should be fine.

Also decided not to use the rear fill... and im gonna bridge the 4 channel amp for more cleaner power and less gain.

pohljm

grab another RCA and tap into the sub signal and send it to your mono amp. then your set. still have sub control from HU. not sure if those amps will work with the low voltage signal, but perhaps need a multi channel line driver. Or just use speaker level input into mono amp from the OEM sub.

BukvaMan

they do have a very low sensitivity input. I have the gains half way up on the 2 channels and its plenty loud with noise you can hear only when you put you ear up to the tweeter. Im planing to bridge the channels and only run front stage of off the amp and hoping that i will lower the gain that way and keep it pretty loud at lets say volume 30. Not that im gonna listen that loud very much be we all have our moments sometimes...

The thing that i dont like is that one side overpowers the other, depending on which side you sit on. I have to move the balance level over to the passenger side about 3 to get a center image. Im sure listening in the passenger side is then way to loud.