adam34996

Planning on puting into my TL.

2 10" JL AUDIO W3V2s
JL AUDIO TR690 6 x 9 3 Way Component Speakers
JL AUDIO C3-650 6.5 3 Way Component Speakers

I purchased a JVC double din but after the purchase price and the custom dash kit install I am over $1000 so I might keep it stock and the guy said something about some kind of upgrade to the stock unit?

I love the double din navigation but its a lot to spend for so little. Any thoughts?

Also - I was recommended to get the JL HD 900/5 Amp. Its pretty damn expensive, similar alternatives for less?

geekybiker

skip the HU, dump the rears and spend it up front. Instead grab a processor of some sort.

I take it you walked into a JL audio dealer?

eggyhustles

...another JL setup

Oh joy.

Skip the headunit
Get a processor
Dump the JL front stage and the rears
Subs are cool. Dcons would outperform them, though.

paperboy42190

iTrader: (7)

i rate it good.

adam34996

Haha no just a local audio shot. I had JL back in high school and was pretty happy. I researched and researched until my head started spinning - seems like so many directions you can go (JL, POLK, DA, BOSTON) -

They all have good reviews and are recommended in different forums so I decided to do the JL outfit. You see what I am ballpark spending so I am looking for anything you dont agree with or something better for a little more.

I think I will ditch the HU and get a processor, but the color of a NAV looks so sexy its gonna be hard.

adam34996

Eggy - thanks for telling me to ditch the JL components but you didnt tell me what you like. I would spend up to $100 more per set.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

My take:

1. Ditch Double Din
2. Ditch rears all together
3. Ditch those fronts and use the money from rears to buy a nicer 6.5" component set
4. 900/5 is a nice amp but super pricey for the small power it offers


I had 12 w3's and didn't really like them at all. They were in my custom built box at 30hz and 3cubes total. They sounded decent but didn't have any balls. The w3 and w6 aren't made to blow people away while going down the street. The Dcon's will get louder and SQ will be close enough to the same it seems. Plenty of budget subs that will outperform the w3's. Take a look at Dcon, Dayton HO, ARC12 or ARC10, Idq, or even IB (infinite baffle) if you want to save space and still get great SQ and low end.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

How much were they for you to purchase?

adam34996

I guess I should have mentioned what I am after...

I dont want to blow anyone away these days - my girlfriend and neighbors will kill me.

I want awesome sounding mids/high with a good punchy bass. I dont need to rattle the car next to me off the road. Thats why I opted for the 10's.

Here is what I paid so far, but I am defiantly willing to switch things up based on your recommendations.

2 10" JL AUDIO W3V2s $200 (Craigslist hardly used in box)
JL AUDIO TR690 6 x 9 3 Way Component Speakers $105 (New)
JL AUDIO C3-650 6.5 3 Way Component Speakers $215 (New)

I am going to have a custom built trunk to save room for the golf clubs

Everyone saying ditch the rears? Why? TELL ME WHAT TO DO )) Im willing to spend the money just want some direction.

adam34996

I know the 900/5 is pricy but I read good things and dont know enough about alternatives to make a decision.

jda123

Those 10w3 can be ok in a ported box with about 600W max. I had some of those exact same subs with a MTX 2300 (from craigslist also) and they had some authority and decent sound quality. However, they needed a big box. I mean 25% more than what JL recommends. Aim small, miss small with JL box sizes on these things... from my experience.

Those C3 and TR will sound better than stock, but they are not great.

The 3G TL rears are 6.5s, not 6x9s.

For JL speakers, skip the rears and put that money towards some some C5s for the fronts. For the same money (or close), I would look at some Morel Tempos, Focal Polyglass or some Phass ES.

eggyhustles

If you already bought them, use them.

I would've def taken 2 of these
http://www.creativesound.ca/details.php?model=SDX10

Or these
http://www.soundsolutionsaudio.com/s...onsAudio/DCON/

Over the w3's, though.

adam34996

So its 6.5 all around?

Everyone keeps saying ditch the rears - is it not work it to do rears or just not with the TR's? What if I got C5's all around.

2 pairs going on ebay for 589

http://www.ebay.com/itm/2-PAIRS-JL-A...item519a95e10d

geekybiker

People say to ditch them because they're really just for rear passengers. They just screw with the stereo image for the front passengers. Why spend money on something that will be off most of the time?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

^ This. All they do is mess up the true stereo image and will likely create more problems in the sound (think processing, wavelengths, etc). I'd sell both of those speakers and use that money on a nice set of 6.5" components....like I said.

If you already purchased the w3's then use them. If you don't like them...sell them on DIYMA or locally. People have boners for JL Audio stuff b/c it's one of the best "locally sold" brands and that's all "normal" people know lol. Love mine and the w6 is tried and true as an awesome SQ competitor but there's SOO much out there these days so it's always a toss up.

To bad you're not local, I've got my box for the w3's I could sell ya.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

1 Pair of $600 components >>>>>>>>>> ^that

adam34996

Thanks a bunch guys. Im going to take your word and get some c5 components for the front.

I know very little about car audio so it never occurred to me that the rear speakers are mainly for rear passengers. I had the impression that the front and the rears need to both be good to bring it all together. Good thing for Acurazine!

I hate cars

I like your setup except for the components. The HD series amps are wonderful. Very small, very efficient, great SQ, and tons of power. You will be very happy with the 900/5. Try to find another amp that's as small, powerful, runs cool, has the same efficiency, SQ, and non existent noise floor. I just installed my new HD 600/4 and it's apparent they're underrated. It seems as loud as my Zed Leviathan that was rated at 300w bridged and the JL has a much lower noise floor and it fits under the seat, not to mention it's cheaper.

The W3 sounds great. The W6 will be louder, sound a little better and will go lower. You may want to consider this, by dumping the rears it will almost make up the price difference. Remember that the size of the sub does not determine if it's going to be punchy, tight, hit hard, or go really low. The enclosure determines that. My pair of 15s are tighter than any 10s I've heard. The beauty of large subs is they are just as tight and musical as smaller subs but you end up with less distortion since they will have less excursion for the same SPL, they require less power for the same SPL, and they will go lower with much less power than smaller subs all while having the same punch and upper end. If you have the room and money, go larger when you can.

I love JL amps and subs but I'm not a huge fan of their components. IMO, the amps and subs are worth every penny. The comps aren't bad but I think you can get better for the money. I have the money for just about anything I want to get in car audio and I've stuck with JL for the amps, would've stuck with them for the subs when I went infinite baffle but I received some bad advice that they would not work.

You're going to run into lots of people that hate JL because it's cool to hate JL and for some add reason that blows my mind, once a product becomes mainstream and you can go down to any store and buy it, it's no longer any good. When it comes to their subs and amps, I haven't found another brand that matches JL on every front. The ZR comps are nice, you wouldn't be disappointed but you can find better for the money. I've jumped ship a couple times only to be disappointed most of the time.

I suggest the Dynaudio 242 set. You can find them used for around $500. Jerry (Niebur3 on here) is an authorized dealer and I'm sure he can hook you up. I have the 342 3-way set and they're wonderful, worth every penny. I've never been so happy with a set of speakers and they will take a TON of power while sounding excellent at any volume. If getting the Dyns or not getting them came down to going cheaper on the sub stage, I would say go cheaper on the subs so you can get the better fronts.

I hate cars

No need for alternatives, it's a great amp. Search around and you can find one for around $650 authorized with a warranty. It's one amp that can run the whole system, sound great, stay cool, and fit under the seat, put out more than rated power, and have a non existant noise floor. You're not going to find another amp that combines all of these features at any price.

I just tried a Zed Leviathan which everyone loves and swapped it for the HD 600/4. IMO, no comparison between the two, the JL kills it.

eggyhustles

placebo effect

I hate cars

No chance. I don't believe an amp changes the sound if it's doing it's job correctly, only power has an effect. I've been one of the only people pushing that on here.

However, the noise floor is noticeably lower on the JL. With the gains maxed out, there's nothing there. The Zed had a low noise floor but it was still present.

Running the Zed unbridged, there's absolutely no doubt the HD puts out more power even though both are rated for 150w rms. Dynamics of the music on the JL is just as good as the Zed when bridged. The midbass has that same pop as the Zed did when bridged. Much better than the Mac, Interfire, the old JL, and the Zed unbridged.

At first I did not change the tune on the MS8, just hooked the JL up and level matched it so tune, MS8, and eq are out of the equation.

This is the ultimate amp for anyone wanting great power, efficiency, small size, ultra low noise floor, and more than rated power.

Gryphen

This is so understated!!! I will admit I was one of these people till I worked for a place that sold JL. JL may be a "mainstream" company but I almost guarantee they hold more patents for amplifier and speaker technology then any other company in the industry. My city there is only 1 authorized JL dealer so your not gonna find it any shop besides that one. Granted most of the Mom and Pop shops in my area have gone out of business in the past few years.

Again... I agree with this 100%. They make great amps and subs but they really lack in the component and co-axial area imo.

Thanks for this IHC as this has helped me narrow down my choices of an all inclusive amplifier to run my entire system. Had it narrowed down to 4 amps: Audison LRX 6.9, DSL Ultimate A7, JL HD 900/5, Zed Leviathan II

adam34996

Quick update. Im have 3 sets of speakers coming to me, will be selling the other 2

I decided to ditch the rears, and got some FOCAL 165A3 6-1/2" 320W 3-WAY CAR COMPONENTS.

I looking for subtle base so I am paring them with either 2 10" JL W3V2 OR 2 8" JL W3V3's.

Do I still need a 900/5 to power this setup? Would my rear deck even get hooked up to the amp if its stock? Any Amp insight is appreciated.

RBeachTL

I don't agree with this at all. The rears are for two purposes; rear effect channels for multi-channel, or rear fill. In no way are the rears for passengers, in fact the stock rears are only mid-bass, there are no tweeters.

I recommend that you keep the stock speakers for these purposes. I would experiment with levels, you want the rears to become only just slightly audible so that you don't weaken the front sound stage. For me I find the rear fill helps with road noise at highway speeds.

I hate cars

You could bridge the 900/5 for 150w per channel now and if you decide to go active in the future, you would not have to add a second amp, you would be fine with what you have.

As for the subs, trust me on this you're better off doing a single 12" rather than two 10s. It's a win-win whether we're talking efficiency (less power required), sound quality, and it's about even in loudness. It will get lower with much less power required and be just as tight and musical as the 10s. You might be able to get a 13W3 for the same price as the pair of 10s. This would be a no-brainer.

If you decide to run the rears at all, the stock ones sound pretty good on an aftermarket amp.

I think the Focals are a good choice.

geekybiker

How often do you really use multi-channel? I mean there is virtually nothing on dvd-a. The Hu doesn't do any neat processing to take advantage of the multi-channel with a stereo source. Rear fill is going to screw with getting really good image without running processing on it and a lot of tuning. If you like it great, but I don't buy that it does anything for your stereo SQ. If you *like* a little rear fill, great. Its nothing the stock speakers probably can't handle though. I wouldn't actually take the stock speakers out (well unless you're having issues with them becoming passive radiators in a IB setup) The question is really if you should split your funds on buying speakers for the rear and amps with more channels, or just stick to getting a really solid front stage and leaving good enough alone out back.

I hate cars

I don't like standard "rear fill" but when implemented correctly with a processor they add a lot to the system. If you have anyone with an MS8 running true Logic 7 with rears and center in your area, take a listen.

geekybiker

Yah, that's way I gave the "If you having processing and tuning" caveat. You can do synthetic surround and stuff then. I've seen it done with HT setups, just not a car with it.

eggyhustles

Hmm

My dreadnought was dead quiet. You gotta have better ears than me, lol.

And since when do the jl's do more than rated? don't they have a regulated power supply?

I hate cars

Could be the version. I had the first Lev I and was looking for the Lev II when I changed my mind.

The regulated PS means it will make rated power from 11v to 14v. Impedance has very little effect on power. I forgot about this until I hooked it into my 8ohm mids and had to cut the gains way down to match the rest of the system. Previously, I had to run more gain to the mids than the others due to the impedance.

I've seen the 600/4 make about 10 more watts than rated into a dummy 4 ohm load. After digging, it's said they can make significantly more power into an actual speaker. JL seriously underrates their stuff. Max power is rated at .003% THD and full range 20hz to 20khz vs the standard 1% at only 1khz, just like their xmax standards are MUCH higher than the industry standard 10% on subs.

I understand it takes considerably more power to hear a difference with your ears and I need a few more days of listening time or preferably a meter but the JL is extremely close in output to the Lev I when I had it bridged.

SQ is better but I need to explain that better. The music sounds 99% similar. When I really crank it especially on metal, the music stays clear and crisp while on some of the other amps including the older JL I ran seemed to blur everything together and sounded harsh. The Lev wasn't as guilty of this but the other amps were.

In no way would I say anything bad about the Lev, it was a great amp that I would gladly recommend to anyone. The performance of the amp had nothing to do with why I got rid of it. It came down to size really. The JL will fit under the seats and offered comparable performance to the Lev. I'm always worried about theft and having an amp under the seat that requires the seat to be removed to steal it is a good thing. The only place the JL had a clear cut advantage was noise floor. This wasn't a problem on the Lev unless the gains were cranked 70% or higher which really wasn't necessary. I maxed out the JL to see if I could get a hiss and none existed. The Dyns seem to pick up every little flaw in the system, things that my IDs never picked up.

I hate cars

Here is one of the big selling points for me. You would never expect an amp that puts out a clean 150x4 to be this small. They fit under the seats with room to spare:

jda123

The Audison and DLS are in a different class from the JL and Zed - in many ways IMO. The Audison and DLS are less powerful, by a longshot (which could matter). The JL is the only one that is small enough to likely hide. The Audison and DLS will sound better if you have drivers and ears that can make/tell a difference. If you are ever in KC, I can play you the difference in the same car with the same setup (just replace the amp). However, you need some pretty detailed drivers to hear the difference - you can hear some of the difference with my KRX3 set and a lot of difference with the Utopias. I love JL and Zed (and Zed Built) amps, they are powerful and reliable and have never let me down, but they are not instrument grade. I just paid a pretty penny to get one of my JLs fixed (because I love it) and I might never use it again, but it is not as nice as the Audison that I have. ...and I don't give a shit who sells JL and how many people have them, I have used them in my car and formulated my own opinions based on performance.

I believe that amps can make a difference so much that I am considering a Thesis Quattro for my utopias. If it can make as much different in going from slash to LRx, then I will be thrilled at the money spent. However, to each their own.

I have never had a HD, but the slash put out about 2-3% more than their rated power. O'scoped in my car. If the HD regulates too, I would expect the same... although they could regulate at a higher percentage as a line.

eggyhustles

Same reason i got it.

300 x 2 @ 8 ohms in a small footprint. What's not to love?

I hate cars

Eggy, are you agreeing with me on the subject of JL? You know it might be getting cold in hell right about now.

I hate cars

I still don't buy in to the theory that one amp can sound better than another outside of noise floor, distortion, and power.

I have a pretty nice set of speakers as well that bring out every flaw in the system and I can't hear a difference in a McIntosh and a $100 Interfire.

To go a little farther, the JL does not sound much better than any of the other amps I've run except the dynamics are very nice, probably due to the higher power. Other than that, at normal listening levels, it's a wash between the $100 amp and the $1,600 amp. Crank the volume up and the HD is no doubt cleaner. In fact, its a hell of a lot cleaner, I can listen at crazy levels for extended periods of time because it's not annoying like it was before. But again, that's probably due to the additional power.

The amp is supposed to amplify the signal without coloration. Assuming they all do that, how can one sound different outside of the differences I mentioned?

Most people that experienced the same thing as me would say the JL HD sounds much better than the others and it does but I know the reason is the additional power and low noise floor, not some magical property of the amp.

I'm not looking for a confrontation but just a discussion. I guess what I want to understand is what people think these super high end amps can do that a good medium priced amp with similar specs can't do.

eggyhustles

I've always liked their products.

I just hate the markup and the douche bag's that swear jl> the world.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. Doesn't help that every local shop sells them as subs that will poud the hell out of your car, etc. I mean you go to youtube and that's all it is for JL is people with w6's and w7's playing Late Nite Tip and showing us how much their mirror can move and how horribly their trunk rattles. PLENTY of subs that will get MUCH MUCH louder for the same price or cheaper. That's not what these are built for in my opinion

I hate cars

Agreed. I consider the W6 and w7 sq subs that will get loud. It's too bad they're usually put in some SPL box and used to pound the hell out of the car. If you just wanted loud you could spend half the money to be loud. However, going by pure displacement, there's not a whole lot out there that will touch a W7 in a good sealed box where excursion is king.

eggyhustles

The w7's were built for spl i believe.

Awesome drivers. Stupid ohm load kills it, imo.

DiamondJoeQuimby

iTrader: (2)

nope. built to be a reference driver. It just happens to have pretty good spl. that is why they use that platform in the home Gotham and Fathom subs.


From a JL training years ago, the W7 was designed to be a quantum leap forward from the W6 (original) which was the flagship sub in the early 90s.

The W7 was something silly like 8 years in development. They went so far as to write modeling software (DMA) to see how the driver would behave in a dynamic state which at the time had never been done.

I for one like the JL comps, but don't really love them until you get to C5 & ZR. I actually like the C5s better than the ZRs after owning both.