truemetalfan84

I own a 2006 TL with Navi system and am looking to upgrade some audio, specifically a direct line for iPod, a new amp, and a single 12 subwoofer (rockford, 600 rms, comp.)

I've been browsing the forums but haven't quite found a thread that really answers all my questions. They are:
1) will I need to buy a mono block amp and run parallel with the factory amp?
2) or, will I need to buy a full 5.1 amp and completely rewire the whole setup?
3) what would you recommend in terms of iPod integration into the stock HU? I would love to keep my tl as is...I'm shooting for the stock look.
4) my budget for the amp, sub, and direct box is about 500.

Any and all comments in plain english would be greatly appreciated!

jda123

Hard to find a 5 channel amp that will put out 600w RMS. They exist, but are usually expensive. Mono blocks are cheap and available. The cheap RF subs really suck. The middle grade are OK and the Power line are pretty good... a lot like most brands. The way that you choose to install them will matter more than the sub - make sure that the box is right if you box them.

I have iSimple in each of my TLs. There are other solutions. It is CD quality and does have a slight noise floor, but overall, I am pleased. Don't expect some kind of awesome interface like your iPod or iPhone has on it. Most of these units either just use a knob and some buttons (steering wheel included), or you can switch them and control the music on the iPod. They won't have a bad-ass gui on the Navi Screen like a new Double Din Touch Screen Head Unit might have.

truemetalfan84

Thanks for the reply!
I'm debating on the rockforp p3 1x12 for the immediate future, I just want something entry level that will be nice and loud, but I have no need to shake windows or piss anyone off with the bass...my music by itself handles that.

What would you suggest in the 3-4-500 price range for vented/ported sub? I'm brand new to this and I unfortunately don't have the money to supplement the audiophile needs I really want (rainbow, IDQ, etc.)

as it stands right now, I'm ready to pull the trigger on a $400 woofer and the iSimple, whatever it costs. My buddy does installs professionally and has already told me he will hook me up.

Any and all input is greatly appreciated

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Well the Isimple is like $175 or so isn't it?? So you have about $325 for amp/sub/box. That's pretty low, but it can be done. Where are you located?? I'd check out your local Craigslist, along with DIYMA classifieds.

Are you going to do some front components or whatever later on? If that's the case and you want this on a budget, I'm sure a 5-channel would suffice for you.

Are you wanting a ported box, IB or sealed? If you build your box (ported at least) it will save you quite a bit. They aren't hard at all if you've got a an extra pair of hands. Maybe cost ya $40-50 max.

jda123

Ask your buddy what he has laying around... or what he has that was traded in. You should be able to find a good used setup in the RF P3 range with a 500w monoblock for way less than $400... and it might have a good box already.

Then, there is Craigslist. Listen before you buy.

iSimple is about $100-125, or so.

If you want new, then try a Sundown SA-12 $195 shipped and a Soundstream Rubicon RUB1.1000D for $150-175 shipped. The sub is good, the amp is OK. That will leave you some coin for a box.

truemetalfan84

From the looks of it, the Sundown is a much better choice than the RF P3. Getting ready to pull the trigger, my fingers are itchy!

One question though, will I need to buy an unbalanced to balanced converter? I've seen on other threads that this is recommended, and the Soundstream amp you've suggested is unbalanced (i think).

Also, am I going to be disconnecting and removing the factory amp? If so, how will this affect the factory speakers since the Soundstream is a monoblock?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

..

jda123

The noise will be filtered out of the sub. No worries.

If you get something like this, tell your friend to grab the signal in the trunk from the stuck amp (gold/black is positive).

truemetalfan84

thank you sir!

Looks like I'll be building a long rear ported box for the single 12, should only take me and my buddy a solid night this weekend.

As for the iSimple or other solutions for direct line, I think i'll hold off on that for a week or so, just to do some more research and to give the sub some time to break in.

Thanks for your help guys! This forum is tops !!

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't it be better to take the pre-amp JDA? I've always heard the factory sub line drops like a rock around 40hz or something like that. Plus, isn't it crossed up somewhere like 100hz?

jda123

Yes, if whatever amp will accept a .9v signal. If not, then line level will be OK.

I would avoid a line output converter, if you can.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Looks like that RUB1000.1D can handle 200mV-6V so you should be fine. If I remember correctly, those Rubicons had some nice boards in them. Nice budget amps!

truemetalfan84

One last quick question guys...2g or 4g wires?

Progress as of now:
Sundown 12 within a week ($194.99 free shipping)
Soundstream within a week ($168.99 free shipping)
$60 set aside for raw materials for ported enclosure

other than the wiring kit, what else do i need?

jda123

4 is fine. You can run this amp and even a component amp later with it.

Which sundown you going to get? Dual 2 or dual 4?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

4g should be plenty. You'll need speaker wire from the amp to sub. Besides that...nothing else.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Damn you JDA

truemetalfan84

I went with the Sundown 12 Dual 2.

When I get the box built, won't I need some sort of mounting bracket to lock it into the enclosure?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

No. You'll just mount it to the enclosure. If you're going to build a ported box the make sure the port is tuned correctly, correct port area for low noise, etc. an easy way would be to use an aero port and figure out what diameter and length you need.

truemetalfan84

Sweet. Looks like I'm all set then, minus the Autotoys iPod adapter ^-^.
Bumpin' on a budget!

Thanks guys!

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

What size box and tuning freq. you going for??

truemetalfan84

The box is going to be an 18 1/4 13 1/4 16 1/4, boards are ready to be cut when I get the time, tuning-wise I'm not so sure yet..gonna make a final decision with my buddy since he seems to know what's going to be best.

Just wanted to thank you guys again for all your help! As I was driving to school today, the car stalled 3 times! I took it to my guy just a while ago for tests and he said my EGR valve needed replacing, cleaning, and the fuel system needed to be cleaned as well (FML!!!) All in all, it looks like I was meant to have a budget audio system in the car for the time being!

truemetalfan84

Just an afterthought, would it be advisable to invest in a high-performance battery with multiple nodes for now? Or would that be something more for down the road?

jda123

No need.

Wait until you have a couple thousand watts before you worry about that.

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Please don't tune it over 34hz-ish

I hate cars

X2. 28-30hz would be even better.

truemetalfan84

So my buddy that's doing the install and build tuned the box to 30hz (i still wanted some volume, but more SQ). I decided to go with a simple but good LOC with Line Driver to cut down down on any noise, plus the amp doesn't accept the balanced wire coming from the HU. He did have one question though before we start pulling panels and splicing wires, should we install the LOC closer to the head unit or back by the sub/amp? I searched for hours last night and the only relevant post I found was in DeathMetal's writeup for the DIY overhaul he did on his 06 TL a few years back. The pictures indicate that he installed the LOC by the sub/amp in the trunk. What're your recommendations?

I hate cars

Line driver boosts the signal, LOC cuts the signal. If you're tapping in after the factory amp such as the factory sub wiring you need a LOC, not a line driver. If your amp accepts high level input you might try no LOC and take it straight from the stock sub wiring. Balanced or unbalanced doesn't matter if you're taking the signal after the stock amp.

rich20730

If it's a line driver and you're taking the pre-amp signal you will want it as close to the head unit as possible. That would be the wires going into the black harness on the stock amp. Make sure it is in fact a line driver though, and not just an LOC. The way you asked the question makes it unclear because there are no pre amp wires back by the sub and you wouldnt be connecting a line driver to speaker level outputs. Conversely, you would not connect an LOC to a pre-amp signal. A line driver should have power remote and ground and likely voltage output indicator lights. If you're unsure you could post the brand and model and we could figure it out.

jda123

What kind of amp did you get - brand & model?

Look at the specs. If it says it can take a 200, 400, etc. milivolt signal, then just wire the pre-amp signal into some RCAs. It will tell you what kind of input signal it can take, or post the model and we can look it up.

truemetalfan84

Soundstream Rubicon 1000.1d

truemetalfan84

and the line driver is a Cache CLOC+D

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Don't quote me on this...but I want to say that the Rub board accepted balanced

truemetalfan84

From the manual:
Input sensitivity: 100mV-8V

jda123

Just wire it up direct. You will low pass any of the noise out anyway.

truemetalfan84

Sweet! Here's the million dollar question now.....can I use the LOC as a cheap answer for a direct in from the iPod? The model I bought accepts both stereo wire and l/r inputs?

Trunk Monkey

iTrader: (1)

Isimples can be had for so cheap that I'd just go that route. Still don't understand why everyone is loves the IPod route. DVD-a is like a 25GB iPod with steering controls and ability to play WAV.

jda123

I was only about to get about 220 songs on a DVD-A - 100 per group, but the disc fills up before you can get 100 in every group. Not bad, though. I totally get the iPod thing - or in my case the iPhone. Try and take your DVD-A on a run, into the house, on vacation, on a business trip, etc... or make phone calls on it.

rich20730

160gb storage capacity, easy indexing, playlists, while maintaing steering wheel controls and Apple Lossless is just as good as .WAV

I hate cars

There's still a quality loss somewhere whether it's the actual file or the AD converter. I can pick out a CD vs iPod 100% of the time.

rich20730

It's definitely not the file. Lossless is lossless. It could be the DAC, although I believe that the older model iPods have a Wolfson DAC, which is supposed to be pretty good. It does seem like CDs sound slightly clearer/louder than tracks I play from the iPod, but that could be due to the fact that many of the files on the ipod are mp3s encoded at lower bitrates. I'm not confident I could pass a blind A/B test between a CD and the same song in lossless format from my iPod and I have a newer iPod with the shittier DAC. Either way I'm not going back to CDs