ITL

Here's what I want to do:
Replace my non-navi in dash screen with a touchscreen LCD TFT for my carputer.

Here's my problem:
I don't want to lose the visibility of my HVAC and stereo status. The non-navi shows A/C info as well as stereo info.

Could I put this display into my non-navi TL?


If I could use this display up top, instead of my non-navi version's clock, then I would be home free to replace the non-navi LCD with an aftermarket touchscreen.

Does this display show stereo information?





If anyone has any other ideas to help with this project, please share them.

żGotJazz?

ITL - I'm not sure about your questions, they are a little unclear. Are you planning on replacing both LCD panels (the one above the vents and the one between the A/C controls)? I don't think that is what you are asking, but I'm not sure. For the sake of discussion, I will assume that you are talking about keeping the LCD display above the vents, and removing the large LCD display between the A/C controls.

If you are asking if the display above the center vents shows radio information, the answer is yes. It will give you radio frequency information, current selected preset, as well as limited XM channel/title/artist information. It also gives you HVAC info, and some Bluetooth phone status info. Quite a bit of information in a little 1-line LCD display.

Good Luck!

tlguy99

What he is asking is, since he has a non navi if he can remove both the non-navi display as well as the clock that takes the place of the radio and HVAC display in non navis and replace them with a LCD touch screen for his comp and the navi display above the vents so that he retains the ability to see the HVAC and radio settings.

żGotJazz?

So, the LCD above the vents is different on the Navi vs. the non-Navi?

If so, someone with the 04TL Elecrical Maintenance manual can see whether the electrical connections to the above-the-vents display are available on the non-Navi vehicles. This would likely mean that one (or more) connectors that would go to the non-Navi below-the-vents display also fits on the Navi above-the-vents display.

It's also possible that they both get their data from the high-speed CAN data bus. If this is the case, you probably won't a different connection, and the Navi above-the vent display would pull the info it needs from the data bus. That's how I'd design it, but what do I know?

AcuraVic

My techs at the dealer told me they would rather give someone another car than to crack that dash open and do anything. Meaning, its at the maximum level of difficulty to work on anything in that dash. The salesperson said the actually did give a lady another car when her Navi screen went out, instead of trying to fix it.

ITL

ok...let me restate my goals

1. stealth...system must look stock to the average person (want to replace non-navi lcd with touchscreen TFT)

2. play my mp3s...I have 40GBs of full albums...I'd like to have them in my car

3. play DVDs...I'd like to utilize the TL's 5.1 audio as well

4. many other future plans include GPS, WiFi, OBD-II interface, RF for proximity sensor, streaming cameras for security...not going into anymore detail b/c goals 1-3 are immediate goals.




My first obstacle is the screen. I'm looking at a 7" screen (either Lilliput or Xenarc). I want to replace the non-navi TFT so that the system appears stock. I do NOT want to lose the functionality of the stock LCD. I'd like to be able to view the info for HVAC and stereo/CD/XM. I noticed that the navi version provides much more info above the vents (non-navi simply has clock). Any ideas?

GotJazz- what is this CAN data bus you speak of? Is this similar to BMW's iBus? What kind of connection can you make to this backbone?

tlguy99

I can tell you from personal experiance designing a system using the 5.1 to play DVD's will not be easy and will cost you a couple grand. I flowcharted my system using 2 xbox's, an alpine DVD changer, and all sorts of other goodies in visio I can send it over if you want.

ITL

have you dealt with the 5.1 in the new TL?

I'd definitely be interested in seeing your chart.

tlguy99

The problem that you run into is that there is no AUX input on the TL system. Compounding that the 5.1 processor is in the amp with a propritory signal (read: can't intercept) coming from the head unit to the amp. My solution was to get that alpine DVD changer with their DSP and run the optical out from the changer to the DSP then 5.1 from the DSP to the amps through a switch in the dash. It is much simpler when you see it. I'll see If I can get it hosted and link to it otherwise PM me your email and I'll do it tonight when I get home.

ITL

as far as aux inputs, I have seen companies that make adapters for this type of problem. Basically, it's a harness that plugs in between the factory wiring harness and the radio. It will provide aux inputs via RCAs. I have not seen one for the TL yet, but I'm sure someone will come up with something.

As an alternative, could one use the XM input as an aux input? Possibly have a switch b/t XM and the aux device

tlguy99

The problem you run into is most AUX inputs are stereo. You are looking for 5.1 compatability. Intercepting the XM is a posibility and people have done it although it is still just a stereo signal. I almost have that file for you, I will be emailing it shortly. If anyone can host it let me know and I'll email it over.

ITL

hmmmm.....this isn't gonna even be remotely easy

tlguy99

Did you like the design?

ITL

yeah, I did...nice work! I'm really impressed. Have you actually implemented this design into your TL?

moahdib

can you email that design to me? ( danielsoh@sbcglobal.net)
I am looking to do the same thing with a Xenarc screen. I can already tell you that using the clock display and replacing that with the navi version of it will NOT work. I bought the service manual which has pretty detailed wiring info and that clock+hvac screen is actually connected to the back of the NAVI LCD unit.

Only way I see it is that I have to gut the lower part where the storage compartments are and put the HVAC screen there, extending wires etc... and put the xenarc up on top.

btw, I also have a non-navi unit and bought it about 3k cheaper than a navi version to use the money to do just that. a car PC. As far as aux input goes, if you don't mind losing XM functionality just wire straight into the L and R channel output from the XM unit in the trunk.
If you wanna keep the XM as well, just use a 4PDT relay and a switch to go from XM to PC audio. No need to buy expensive adapter... you might need a GLI ( ground loop isolator) to block out noise though.

You gotta have good knowledge of electronics and such to take on such project. If you screw up the factory wiring specially in the dash it might cost you a whole lot more to get it fixed.

ITL

Thanks for the info about the non-navi clock- that halts that idea...now I gotta come up with a new angle.

I don't really think the HVAC will fit in the lower storage area. It is not wide enough and gets narrower towards the bottom.

żGotJazz?

It looks like this will become an excellent thread to refer people to when they think that replacing the Navi with a "home brew" is going to be cheaper than purchasing the stock Navi system.

ITL - regarding your CAN bus question - I don't know what BMW's name for their data bus is. However, the CAN (Controller Area Network ) bus is a relatively new high-speed data bus standard designed by Bosch for use in the automotive industry. It has lots of "prepackaged" data formats, but it is also very expandable and customizable for different applications.

It is also being used in the aerospace industry now, and probably other industries as well.

ITL

my sentiments exactly...I really wish I had read a thread like this before I bought my non-navi

Maybe we could get a mod to append this to a faq or make a sticky.

moahdib

You can always get a LCD screen and mount it on the dash by means of a bracket in front of the HVAC screen.
Only thing is that it won't be nice and flush and it will be way easier for some thief to take it unless you remove it everytime you leave the car.
This will probably be my solution for now.

ITL

I need to figure out something else I guess...The visors seems too small for the Lilliput...anyone put a touchscreen in their visor? tryin to keep it as clean as possible

whatacar

The display on the NON-NAVI screen is an Alpha-Numeric LCD display. I wonder if one can tap into the writes that go to the display and then write a PC program to display it on the Lilliput screen. Most alpha-numeric display controllers have a simple 8 bit data bus with a chip-select, read and register select signals. If I can find out what the controller is, I can easily design a control box that can be read by the PC. The PC can then display the exact same stuff that shows up on the current non-navi display on to the graphic screen. You can leave the top display near the dash intact.

The biggest issue I have is how do you replace just the LCD screen without touching all the buttons and the radio? I think they are one integral unit.

I had all the same reasons as you did. I feel that down the road someone is going to solve this problem.

Just my $0.02 worth.

ITL

sounds good....let's keep this going....someone is bound to have an idea. I'd like to figure it out b/c I have a huge collection of mp3s (full albums which I'd be willing to share in exchange for help) that I would like to have access to in my car.

Displaying data on the stock non-navi screen would work in this case. I've pretty much given up on replacing this display. Should've gone with the navi. It would've been MUCH easier!

Let's do this

whatacar

I think I will wait until I can get my hands on a broken non-navi console/head unit and then experiment with a new screen on that. If it works I will have it installed. I don't want to mess with what I have. I agree with you. Having a cool MP3/WMA player with a full screen menu selection would be super. I wonder if the dealer will sell broken units?

ITL

or look on Ebay

if you find a dealer that will give em out, let me know....I'd take/buy one

whatacar

I have ordered the shop manual and the electrical trouble shooting manual. Hopefully I can get enough out of that to figure out the bus. I might yet have to connect a logic analyzer on the bus.

My plan is to tap the bus from the Car central CPU that comes into the HVAC LCD and design an interface that outputs the LCD information in the form of a baseband video signal that can be connected to the Lilliput graphic LCD video input. This way, by switching between the video input and VGA input from the PC, one can display the standard HVAC LCD info without mucking with the PC software. If the PC crashes, I still have my HVAC info.

ITL

The plan:
Replace standard non-navi screen with aftermarket touchscreen for carPC.

Why:
To retain the functionality of the stock HVAC display in the stock location, yet also have TS LCD functionality for carPC.

Advantages:
Once we know how the bus sends information to the HVAC display, it can be displayed on the graphic LCD in any number of ways. It could be always on in a window of it's own. I also think that the XM information can be displayed all together like it is in the Navi display unit.

The result:
A carPC that is absolutely stealth utilizing the stock location for a touchscreen while still retaining factory functionality for the HVAC.

We need a donor to do testing on to try to reverse engineer the CPU display bus. We need your help to make this happen!

Through discussion with whatacar, our first step in reverse engineering the HVAC LCD for the non-navi model includes getting a donor unit. If anyone can get a used, broken, or discarded HVAC unit for the 04 non-navi TL, please contact me. If you know of a yard or dealership that would be willing to give one of these up, please let me know ASAP.

Thanks,
Alan | ITL

rets

Have you ever tried to search ebay and see if anyone there sells it?

ITL

yeah, I've looked around but don't really know what search terms to use

Do you have any links any diagrams that show how the console and dash fits together and lists the parts? If I could look up the names of the pieces, I could look these components up by name.

rets

Check these out and see if any specific items are useful for you...

http://www.acuraparts247.com/sunnysi...All&vinsrch=no

http://www.acuraparts247.com/sunnysi...AL&ListAll=All

moahdib

I have been looking in to this and I think the HVAC screen can be moved elsewhere, but you'd have to extend a total of 42 wires which goes in the back of the Display Control Unit ( LCD).
This is a major job but probably worth it.

I uploaded a page from the service manual and its in the mp3car forum post here:
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/show...d=1#post268875

its a big job... we'll see who gets it done first.

whatacar

Actually this is not too bad. I was hoping for something like this. What this suggests to me is that the LCD gets it's information through a two wire communication system. One ground and the other for receive and transmit. Once we understand the communication protocol, it should be possible to tap into this bus. I would rather eliminate the HVAC display unit rather than move it elsewhere. I want to use the space for the graphic LCD which will display the HVAC LCD information as well as connect to the CarPC. The two connections from the climate control panel is to monitor the bunch of switches. The unit connector B in all likely hood carries the switch status information the central CPU. That needs to be understood as well.

This is not an easy job, but certainly doable. Would it be possible to scan in the pages 21 and 22 for the climate control diagram. I am waiting for my manuals to arrive.

Casper42

In reading this I'm sure glad I got the NAVI Version.

But instead of replacing the upper screens with a LCD Touchscreen, have you considered replacing the 2 lower storage spot with a slightly smaller touchscreen down there? Then you could leave the main Dash alone and do whatever you like with the space down below. The 12V connector is also down there meaning you wouldnt have to work any miracles to get your peices powered.

Just another Alternative is all.

Personally I cant wait till Blitzsafe makes a 04 TL Adapter (and hopefully one that doesnt kill the XM)

ITL

thanks for the ideas Casper, but I'm gonna have to shoot 'em down:

1. I'm glad you got the navi too

2. That lower spot is too low and too narrow. (trust me, I've put lots of thought into it!) I personally believe that would be way too far away from the road to even glance at safely. Also, it wouldn't be very convenient for any sort of backseat viewing. It would NOT be fun to manipulate touchscreen around my 6MT.

3. Running 12V power is no big deal at all! Plus, I wouldn't want to lose the power outlet.

This is just my opinion and preferences. ALL comments are welcome. This is going to be a lengthy R&D project. The more ideas, the better.

Casper42

Yeah I kinda figured. Just seems like removing the Screen and relocating some of those controls is going to suck majorly.

I think car MFGs should be shot (even the Luxury Brands) for skimping in certain areas and integrating things too tightly. As in, why couldnt Acura just have used the same Upper LCD for HVAC and Basic Radio info and then had the lower LCDs be just for the Factory Radio. Then you could rip out the Factory radio and your AC info would still show up at the top, you just wouldnt get any Station or XM Title info up top (Which I'm sure most people doing a project like you would be fine with.)

The G35 is a prime example. The ECU for the AC is integrated into the Radio. So if you replace the Radio, your AC stops working. I know Infinity is supposed to be a luxury brand, but come on people, its only a G35. Some people have gotten around this by ordering a special stand alone ECU for the AC from Japan and mounting it way behind the dash.

moahdib

I'll scan the extra pages when I get home...
Writing software to display the HVAC info on a graphic LCD is obviously a GREAT idea but there is a whole lot more in that unit besides just the LCD and the controller.
When will you be taking the dash appart and removing the LCD ?=P

whatacar

I received the manuals. So don't bother about the scan. Yes, I do agree it is a lot of work. I don't have a time frame in mind. Busy with work and home, so whenever I find time.

I did notice that the Acura-TL has a 33K baud serial interface called the B-CAN bus that carries information within the car. This bus looks similar to the standard K-BUS. The Audio system has it's own bus called the GA-NET II which carries information between the components and the display. It should be possible to tap the bus, but it is a lot of work. Anyone heard about the GA-NET II bus?

ITL

click here for a good article on automotive buses such as LIN, CAN and MOST

from reading this, it seems to me like MOST applies more to the bluetooth





whatacar, I know BMW has a K-Bus.....maybe our application is similar to theirs

ITL

Electronic control units (ECUs) that utilize intelligent sensors and perform multiplex communication via a controller area network (CAN) data bus.

Basically CAN is a standard automotive bus, but the specifications of the units between the suppliers and Honda is still confidential.

ITL

hey, moahdib or whatacar, could you post the climate control circuit diagram on pages 21-22? I'd like to take a look at this. Thanks, Alan

whatacar

ITL Check your PM.

Here is my train of thoughts:

1. It is best to leave the HVAC LCD controller connected (Moahdib is right)
2. However move it out of the way behind the graphic LCD. There is space.
3. Snoop on the communication bus. The TL still thinks it has the HVAC intact
4. Use the snooped data to write to the graphic display
5. There are two buses to decode. The B-CAN and the GA-NET II
6. Both need a monitor. I could build it once I know the format for sure
7. The monitor will output to a PC the string of characters received by the HVAC LCD
8. Monitor the character set and correlate it to events (buttons,radio,HandsFree etc)
9. Either use the PC serial port to decode the info for display to the graphic screen OR
10 Build an interface to directly output video to the screen.

Easy?? Nope, but can be done. It is time and effort. If not anything, it should be fun to do.