My first high end install almost complete
#1
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Thread Starter
My first high end install almost complete
This POS computer erased the first attempt at this thread so I'll keep it short before it gets thrown in the pool.
I finally have everything here or on the way.
Got a tracking number on the AE IB15s which should be here Tuesday.
Ordered the Massive Audio 6.5" coaxial slim mount (1.66" deep) for the center to replace the 5.25" Type R.
Every reference to the sub stage in the past few months has had the word "temporary" in it. I've used scrap pieces of MDF of different shapes and sizes to mount my two different IB setups since I thought they would only be in for a few weeks. A few weeks turned into 5 months but now the IB15s are almost here. I bought enough MDF for up to three 3/4" layers.
The Tempest X is already stupid loud on the low end and I should be gaining 70% more displacement with the two AEs.
It will be neat having a sub that plays flat from 18 to 150hz. I can't wait to try crossing it at something higher like 90hz. The MS8 is amazing for up front bass so this might just work out very well and take some of the load off of my Dyns.
The main point of this thread is to finally have a final thread with pictures of how this thing will remain for many years. This will be my first actual build thread.
Final equipment will be:
Dynaudio 342
MS8
MA 6.5" center
RF 1000.4 amp
JL 900/5 amp
"Niebur3" kicks for the mids
A new factory CD player since mine took a dump.
Tons of sound deadening.
Can't wait to get the JL 6 channel out of here. One channel is dead and it's sounding harsher and harsher over time.
I hope it sounds as good as I think it will. Between the CD player going out and the dead amp channel along with degrading sound quality and the super bottom heavy sub, I've forgotten how it used to sound.
Tempest X might be for sale. If you like rap, this is the sub for you.
I finally have everything here or on the way.
Got a tracking number on the AE IB15s which should be here Tuesday.
Ordered the Massive Audio 6.5" coaxial slim mount (1.66" deep) for the center to replace the 5.25" Type R.
Every reference to the sub stage in the past few months has had the word "temporary" in it. I've used scrap pieces of MDF of different shapes and sizes to mount my two different IB setups since I thought they would only be in for a few weeks. A few weeks turned into 5 months but now the IB15s are almost here. I bought enough MDF for up to three 3/4" layers.
The Tempest X is already stupid loud on the low end and I should be gaining 70% more displacement with the two AEs.
It will be neat having a sub that plays flat from 18 to 150hz. I can't wait to try crossing it at something higher like 90hz. The MS8 is amazing for up front bass so this might just work out very well and take some of the load off of my Dyns.
The main point of this thread is to finally have a final thread with pictures of how this thing will remain for many years. This will be my first actual build thread.
Final equipment will be:
Dynaudio 342
MS8
MA 6.5" center
RF 1000.4 amp
JL 900/5 amp
"Niebur3" kicks for the mids
A new factory CD player since mine took a dump.
Tons of sound deadening.
Can't wait to get the JL 6 channel out of here. One channel is dead and it's sounding harsher and harsher over time.
I hope it sounds as good as I think it will. Between the CD player going out and the dead amp channel along with degrading sound quality and the super bottom heavy sub, I've forgotten how it used to sound.
Tempest X might be for sale. If you like rap, this is the sub for you.
#3
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Lol. Probably not. I suck at car audio. I suck at wood working. I suck at carpeting and finishing. Hopefully it sounds good at least. I think I've spent at much time on the current system as it took me to produce a 10 second car.
#5
Instructor
Congrats bro ....should sound nice . keep us posted ! Ive got my RK6's in the other day just waiting for my Sundown Sax 100.4 amp and need to buy more sound deadner . I got damplifier pro for the doors but am gonna add overkill . Money is getting tight wt my 105k service and other non sense BS things coming up
I wish I would of bought MS8's in the first place stuck wt LC8's . I'll have to trade or sell
I wish I would of bought MS8's in the first place stuck wt LC8's . I'll have to trade or sell
#6
Instructor
Hmm, if you are going high-end, did you look into the Audison Bit-One and their amps? I'm thinking an all audison front end will sound infinitely better than the JBL/RF/JL stuff. Also, I would really, really re-think the whole IB setup. Great sound quality can be had in small boxes. Maybe a Focal sub would work?
But maybe I'm just jealous. Heh, I'm just going to do LOC to Polk SR front stage and a Focal Sub driven by old-school Soundstream power.
But maybe I'm just jealous. Heh, I'm just going to do LOC to Polk SR front stage and a Focal Sub driven by old-school Soundstream power.
#7
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Hmm, if you are going high-end, did you look into the Audison Bit-One and their amps? I'm thinking an all audison front end will sound infinitely better than the JBL/RF/JL stuff. Also, I would really, really re-think the whole IB setup. Great sound quality can be had in small boxes. Maybe a Focal sub would work?
But maybe I'm just jealous. Heh, I'm just going to do LOC to Polk SR front stage and a Focal Sub driven by old-school Soundstream power.
But maybe I'm just jealous. Heh, I'm just going to do LOC to Polk SR front stage and a Focal Sub driven by old-school Soundstream power.
I hear you on the amps though. I have no idea if I made a bad decision. I got tired of not having enough power, one channel of my 6 channel failed so I got something with some serious power. Time will tell though. If i don't like the RF stuff, I'll sell it and go with ARC or something along those lines.
I'm looking forward to getting this over and just enjoying the music. This thing has dragged on for way too long.
BTW, I would love to hear that Focal sub if we're ever in the same area.
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#8
Instructor
Ugh its late. I just know that setting up an IB configuration is just a PITA. But if you have that all sealed up, sounds like it should work. I'm not sure if Rockford was one of the companies (PPI, Soundstream, etc) that went belly up or not, but I was never a big fan of the RF series. But I think to really improve an amp, stepping up slightly won't do it, so ARC would be a solid choice. Just get a small alpine 1000 watt digital amp for the bass stage. I have one on a JL W7 and it sounds decent. And if you are in my area, I would DEFINITELY want to hear your setup. Sounds like it will be top notch. Especially those Dyn's. Dang.
#10
Instructor
No you don't. My area sucks. But, this time I'm trying to keep everything as light as possible. In my other car, I've had two Boston Pro 10s, with the box taking up the entire truck, driven by huge amps. So I figure this time, just keep it simple and as light as possible.
#11
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Lol, at least you're not in the armpit of California.
You should give the IB setup a try. My two IB15s combined weigh 34lbs and the MDF weighs 30lbs. That's pretty light for two 15s and 90% of the trunk usable.
#12
Instructor
Hell yeah, but it seems like you have a TON of patience. I however do not. Heh, I am also limited in skills. Hell I will be happy when i'm done running the cable. So setting up an IB config and plugging all holes would likely drive me insane (again). But yeah Bakersfield. I don't even know where it is. How far from LA?
#13
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I'm anxious to see the pics! Best of luck IHC-it sounds like your setup will be great.
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2011 National AcuraZine Meet-Kansas City-June 12, 2011
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#15
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Hell yeah, but it seems like you have a TON of patience. I however do not. Heh, I am also limited in skills. Hell I will be happy when i'm done running the cable. So setting up an IB config and plugging all holes would likely drive me insane (again). But yeah Bakersfield. I don't even know where it is. How far from LA?
I'm about 1-1.5 hours south of LA, right over the Grapevine.
I'm anxious to see the pics! Best of luck IHC-it sounds like your setup will be great.
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LESS THAN ONE MONTH AWAY!
2011 National AcuraZine Meet-Kansas City-June 12, 2011
Sign Up and Details Here!
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Me too. Everything is still on the 5 channel 6 channel amp lol. Haven't decided what to send to what on the new amps. While the midbass need power, the mids and tweeters are 8 ohms. It sort of complicates things. It will probably end up being the 1000.4 on the midbass and mids and the 900/5 on the tweets, center, and subs. I waited for a while to order the amps because the IB15s only need 250 watts each but if I had to go with something else I might have needed the full 1,000 watt infinity that I've been running forever.
#17
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I'm running the center currently on the MS8's built in amp and with only 75 watts per channel at 4 ohms on the JL it keeps up fine. That might change with more than double the power with the new amps.
On a different note, I cut the baffle for the IB15s tonight. Didn't take into account the width of the bit so instead of two 14" holes I have two 14.25" holes.
#19
Dogmatic Dinosaur
Not to be nosy, but can you post up the numbers on that 1000-4 when you get it? I am immensely curious. You get the new AD?
I would run the tweets and mid range on the cleanest amp that you have. It matters.
I would run the tweets and mid range on the cleanest amp that you have. It matters.
#20
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#21
Instructor
But yeah, Bakersfield/Barstow I get them confused.
#22
Team Owner
Thread Starter
This sounds right. Eggy knows his stuff. The class D stuff should be hitting your lows with the nice sounding A/B on the mids/highs. I've run Class-D through my highs and it just sounded harsh. Wondering though, did you pay MSRP on that RF? IB should be sweet though.
But yeah, Bakersfield/Barstow I get them confused.
But yeah, Bakersfield/Barstow I get them confused.
And now an update. Recieved the AE IB15s today. They're beautiful lol. They're sitting in the living room in the baffle I made for them. Looks like it's going to be one baffle with the 14" holes that they're in now, another with 15.5" holes that goes over the front, and another that mounts to the car's chassis along with some minor bracing between the subs. They're super light, I can hold one out in front of me with one hand by the magnet. Suspension is soft too. I promised the GF I would not "waste" any time on my car audio stuff until this weekend.
Also recieved the Massive Audio SX-6 set that will go in the center to replace the temporary Type-S 5.25". The problem is they sent me the SK-6 component set which retails for double. They're 6.5" instead of 6.25", have a 25mm silk dome tweeter vs a 20mm tweeter, go a little lower, handle nearly double the rms wattage, and are still 1.66" deep. I'm going to try mounting one of the tweeters to the underside of the factory grill (a spare one I have) just to see if it's doable or if I should send them back (or sell) for the coaxials. Pictures to come.
#24
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It's in the FS section for $150. I would love to keep it for exactly that reason but a certain someone is putting the pressure on to get rid of some of this stuff. Plus, I'm still in an apartment and the 8" sub already gets complaints. Can't seem to find a house that doesn't have everything ripped out by the previous owner. Got the 12W6 for sale too along with a single Massive Audio SK-6 for the center for sale. I hate to get rid of any of it.
#26
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#27
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So here's what came in today:
Comparison of the Massive Audio SK-6 to the Image Dynamics CTX65
Comparison of the SK-6 to the IDs, Type S 5.25", and Infinity Reference 3.5". You can see the Massive 6.5" is actually shallower than the 3.5" Infinity with a huge frequency response advantage over all but the IDs.
One more shot of the now extinct IB15
Comparison of the Massive Audio SK-6 to the Image Dynamics CTX65
Comparison of the SK-6 to the IDs, Type S 5.25", and Infinity Reference 3.5". You can see the Massive 6.5" is actually shallower than the 3.5" Infinity with a huge frequency response advantage over all but the IDs.
One more shot of the now extinct IB15
#29
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Thanks. I hooked one of them up to the center channel of my HT just for the heck of it. Talk about efficiency. It was much louder than the 5" that it replaced. I tried the same thing with the Tempest X and there was a large loss of SPL.
The really weird thing is this 15" woofer was playing upper midrange very well. It was almost weird to look at the speaker of that size and hear treble from it.
So I got the baffle pretty much finished. I ended up doing the 3/4" baffle with 14" cutouts heavily braced with more 3/4" MDF on the backside, practically two baffles sandwhiched together. Then I did a top one with two 15.5" holes that will mount to the chassis. Overall thickness is 2.25" I hope that's going to be enough.
These pictures were taken before I decided to make the second baffle so add another 3/4" to the thickness. The face plate part obviously has to be cut and contoured to fit the car so it's not screwed or glued to anything yet, just laying there.
Doing this without a router is not fun and it's time consuming. This is my first half way serious attempt at any kind of wood working so it's not pretty but it's functional.
The really weird thing is this 15" woofer was playing upper midrange very well. It was almost weird to look at the speaker of that size and hear treble from it.
So I got the baffle pretty much finished. I ended up doing the 3/4" baffle with 14" cutouts heavily braced with more 3/4" MDF on the backside, practically two baffles sandwhiched together. Then I did a top one with two 15.5" holes that will mount to the chassis. Overall thickness is 2.25" I hope that's going to be enough.
These pictures were taken before I decided to make the second baffle so add another 3/4" to the thickness. The face plate part obviously has to be cut and contoured to fit the car so it's not screwed or glued to anything yet, just laying there.
Doing this without a router is not fun and it's time consuming. This is my first half way serious attempt at any kind of wood working so it's not pretty but it's functional.
#32
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You're the man, Matt...looking forward to seeing this IN the trunk. I've been toying with the idea of regaining my trunk and taking some weight out by putting in a serious 8" sub in the stock location and sealing up underneath...but I can't fathom such a small surface being able to recreate the lows I'm used to with 2 12's.
#33
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The 6.5 slips right in, couldn't be easier. I'm trying to bring the mid right up to the bottom of the dash which presents a problem for the tweeter location. I could always mount the tweeter flush mounted on the grill but it might look weird. I have one last option I might try that shouldn't be hard if it works.
You're the man, Matt...looking forward to seeing this IN the trunk. I've been toying with the idea of regaining my trunk and taking some weight out by putting in a serious 8" sub in the stock location and sealing up underneath...but I can't fathom such a small surface being able to recreate the lows I'm used to with 2 12's.
Try your current 12s IB lol. I'll post pics later today but I would say I still have 90% of my trunk usable with the two 15s in there. You almost don't notice them.
#34
Team Owner
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Subs are 100% done. Center is 90% done. I experimented with an old stock grill which I have to swap out for my newer grill after I mod it. The center comp fit in easily. The tweeter is under the factory grill but off to the side a little. It's an easy install. I broke the "legs" off of the grill so I could mount the mid up against the bottom of the dash without poking any holes in it. Having a large center with the MS8 makes a huge difference.
Crossed the subs at 85hz along with the midbasses and center.The midbass seems to have more clarity with it crossed a little higher. The IB15s easily play these frequencies.
Pictures of everything complete to come soon. I've spent over 12 hours on it this weekend, I'm not going to attempt to get on the computer for any more car stuff this weekend or I'll end up dead...
Crossed the subs at 85hz along with the midbasses and center.The midbass seems to have more clarity with it crossed a little higher. The IB15s easily play these frequencies.
Pictures of everything complete to come soon. I've spent over 12 hours on it this weekend, I'm not going to attempt to get on the computer for any more car stuff this weekend or I'll end up dead...
#36
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#37
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Just updating with a little more listening time. I've noticed something new with these subs. At what sounds like the same SPL, these things are vibrating things that have never vibrated. I have the factory wing spoiler (which I didn't want but it was the only black on black TL on the lot in '05). It goes crazy, looks like it's going to break. I see no way around this problem other than to order the factory lip spoiler which I think looks better anyway.
The side mirrors become unusable, the passenger seat back moves a lot without a person in it, anything that is set down on the arm rest vibrates off.
I can only think of two theories.... One is these subs will play midbass better than any 6.5" midbass can. Maybe it's these midbasss frequencies that are doing it.
The other is something a member at DIYMA told me would happen. As you get into subs (and any speakers) with less distortion they won't sound as loud as they actually are. Apparently distortion makes speakers sound louder. I noticed with my Dyns, just as Jerry said, they might not sound that loud but try talking out loud and you can't hear yourself talk. Now these subs are kind of the same way. You don't realze just how loud they are.
Currently have them lowpassed at 85hz. I'm still amazed at how well two 15s play this range. I keep moving the low pass up little by little and they just sound better and better.
I learned a few years ago that a 15" sub can play as tight as a 10" and it's not the diameter that determines this. But I think the tightness and snap of the bass especially in the upper region would surprise many. I have yet to hear a 10" sub with this kind of kick to it.
I haven't found one type of music that this sub likes. Usually your system will play certain types of music better than others. That has been the case with every system I've owned, even the W6 in IB form. With these, they hit the low, lows as well as the Tempest which is saying somthing. But they reach up to 85hz effortlessly. They literally sound as good on rock and punk as they do on rap. They blend so well, on music that's not bass heavy you can't tell they're on until you actually turn them off so you can see how much they're contributing.
It's like you have an 8", 10", 12", and 15" in the car, each playing it's most efficient frequency all the time. No EQ needed, I haven't had to boost or cut anything. Even my 12W6 had a little peak around 50hz that had to be cut. My Tempest X had to be cut heavily in the 20-50hz range.
Distortion is just about non existant and that's only good when you crank the volume because with two 15s, during normal listening you can't see the cones moving.
I played a lot of older stuff like Bad Religion, NOFX, Goldfinger, etc with a lot of quick snappy bass and they played it perfect. Each time I get used to this music it amazes me when they can play so low on rap.
I played "Put on" because it has that one 27hz low note that most systems won't play at all. That's the lowest I've heard in actual music. But where my other boxed setups wouldn't play it at all, the Tempest X would and the 12W6 when IB'd would but it ran out of excursion very quickly, these covered 27hz with ease and sounded good doing it. I only wish the subsonic filter on the MS8 would go lower. I have it as low as it will go at 20hz/6db but I swear it sounds like it interferes with 30hz and below region.
The side mirrors become unusable, the passenger seat back moves a lot without a person in it, anything that is set down on the arm rest vibrates off.
I can only think of two theories.... One is these subs will play midbass better than any 6.5" midbass can. Maybe it's these midbasss frequencies that are doing it.
The other is something a member at DIYMA told me would happen. As you get into subs (and any speakers) with less distortion they won't sound as loud as they actually are. Apparently distortion makes speakers sound louder. I noticed with my Dyns, just as Jerry said, they might not sound that loud but try talking out loud and you can't hear yourself talk. Now these subs are kind of the same way. You don't realze just how loud they are.
Currently have them lowpassed at 85hz. I'm still amazed at how well two 15s play this range. I keep moving the low pass up little by little and they just sound better and better.
I learned a few years ago that a 15" sub can play as tight as a 10" and it's not the diameter that determines this. But I think the tightness and snap of the bass especially in the upper region would surprise many. I have yet to hear a 10" sub with this kind of kick to it.
I haven't found one type of music that this sub likes. Usually your system will play certain types of music better than others. That has been the case with every system I've owned, even the W6 in IB form. With these, they hit the low, lows as well as the Tempest which is saying somthing. But they reach up to 85hz effortlessly. They literally sound as good on rock and punk as they do on rap. They blend so well, on music that's not bass heavy you can't tell they're on until you actually turn them off so you can see how much they're contributing.
It's like you have an 8", 10", 12", and 15" in the car, each playing it's most efficient frequency all the time. No EQ needed, I haven't had to boost or cut anything. Even my 12W6 had a little peak around 50hz that had to be cut. My Tempest X had to be cut heavily in the 20-50hz range.
Distortion is just about non existant and that's only good when you crank the volume because with two 15s, during normal listening you can't see the cones moving.
I played a lot of older stuff like Bad Religion, NOFX, Goldfinger, etc with a lot of quick snappy bass and they played it perfect. Each time I get used to this music it amazes me when they can play so low on rap.
I played "Put on" because it has that one 27hz low note that most systems won't play at all. That's the lowest I've heard in actual music. But where my other boxed setups wouldn't play it at all, the Tempest X would and the 12W6 when IB'd would but it ran out of excursion very quickly, these covered 27hz with ease and sounded good doing it. I only wish the subsonic filter on the MS8 would go lower. I have it as low as it will go at 20hz/6db but I swear it sounds like it interferes with 30hz and below region.
#39
Team Owner
Thread Starter
You won't be disappointed as long as you use a suitable sub. I've heard the Image Dynamics IDQ 15s in this setup and they're awesome. You can pick them up for pennies. This is the one I heard for about 1.5 hours at the last CA Acurazine meet..
http://caraudiomag.com/articles/acura-tl-sub-install
It's so nice to have a system that will play every type of music well, go down into the subsonic range for impact and play midbass if required. Plus watt for watt, IB is very efficient. It won't win any SPL contests but that's why most use a lot of cone area.
#40
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That's very good information to know. I would have to research, be curious to see if the audiobahns I have now would like IB...I had them in a sealed box and faced forward toward cab and it sounded like crap...
You are wayyy more into it financially than I want to delve any time soon. Then again, you already have nice cruising car and fast race car...so sound system was the next logical step! Thanks for the info and words of encouragement!
You are wayyy more into it financially than I want to delve any time soon. Then again, you already have nice cruising car and fast race car...so sound system was the next logical step! Thanks for the info and words of encouragement!