Thanks for the response. The ID amp is way to long. The one thing the JL does better I think is allow to run active. Not sure if I even want to do that though?

 

the crossover on the jl isn't that great to run active with

if u want an amp to run active with, look at the sundown 100.4

Kinda big, though.

Dimensions 252(W) x 58(H) x 480(L)mm

 

20" is gettin pretty long, plus its a 4 channel. I prolly just run passive crossovers and bridge the channels and it will turn out better for the budget I am playin with.

 

The 700/5 can HP up to 5kHz and BP or LP the mids. Should be fine if you wanted to go active. I wouldn't worry too much about active if I didn't have EQ, TA, etc though. Most passive crossovers are usually designed pretty well with the higher end companies/component sets. Seems like you want to keep it somewhat low key

 

My only thought was I could afford better components if I was not payin for the crossovers. But yeah! Should just keep it simple.

 

IHC,

I know you have experience with amps under each seat. If your only running a single 5 channel amp which side would you use? more space available on the drivers side, or easier access to OEM wiring on passenger side? Is there room for crossovers there as well?

 

Yeah you can piece together something that'd be cheaper than a "name brand" component setup. Completely up to you. There are a lot of options too!

 

Options suck!

 

Update! Ordered the JL 700/5. Now thats decided! Now i need a sub that will work nicely with that in an infinite baffle setup . The less i spend on a sub the more i have for components!

 

Congrats!!!

I went with IDQ12 for IB ...most likely people are going to recommend that for you.

 

Yes i see that one mentioned alot! I think a 12 will be fine for me although many say a single 15 is the way to go.

 

True, but I dont think ID makes a 15.

 

No! 12's are the largest they offer

 

Back to your thread.....

You will need a line driver if you go pre amp...despite the fact that your AM amp accepts balanced and as low as the HU output, you wont be able to gain much on the amp since the input is at best 1v ....try gaining from there and you end up clipping very soon up on gain...UNLESS, you're satisfied with it being no louder than stock, then you keep gains at min. I think amps need to see something along the 2-4v input for optimum performance

 

Dual 15's if going IB

Makes the most sense.

 

The sarcasm is strong with this one

 

lol

Not at all.

With 300 max on the sub channel, maximum cone area makes the most sense.

2 dcons, anyone?

 

You need to convince me! How does that make the most sense?

I am looking to be educated. are we talking excursion? total volume of air being moved? response time, any other measurement?

The way I see it I have taken the "simple" way out. I have a single 5 channel amp putting out mediocre current at best by most standards to a sub channel. It seems that with the limited power I have available trying to push (2) 15" subs seems borderline. I am not after crazy volume, I am not trying to shake other peoples ......anything. I just want an accurate reproduction of what the artist intended when they recorded the track. That to me, does not seem like an unusual request?

Although it goes against the grain of americanism/capitalism, I do not necessarily agree that the more/bigger/louder is the best way to go.

Please enlighten me.

 

More displacement is always better whether you like sound quality or loud. All else being equal, the larger subs are going to be more efficient so less power is required for the same SPL. Look at any company's model lineup and look at sensitivity between their 10", 12", and 15" in the same line and sensitivity goes up with the larger speakers. I would go with the larger sub especially if you're limited on power.

The less excursion that's required, the less distortion the subs are going to have. A pair of 15s played at a reasonable volume will have almost no visible excursion. Again, all else being equal they're going to be very accurate.

Obviously displacement is excursion x cone area but for efficiency you want a lot of cone area. To move a lot of air you want both.

IB offers a way to fit a ton of cone area into a small space. The usual downside to this would be the 6 cubic foot box that would take up the entire trunk but with IB that's not an issue. It's not absolutely needed but there are some advantages to having lots of cone area even if you don't like it loud.

FWIW, I only have 500w for my pair of 15s and I have the gain set 1/3 if the way up. Even 300w on a pair of 15s in IB will get very loud if you want it to.

 

So perhaps a single 15" placed off to the side anticipating another if needed would be the best configuration to construct the baffle? I am wondering if I would ever want a second one, but I guess it would be best to plan for it.

I really like the baffle mounting options with a centered sub though..................

 

You can always make another baffle using the first as a template. Making the first template, installing, etc. is the tough part. MDF is available and cheap.

I don't know that there is any significant difference in centering or placing to the side. If you keep the armrest down, the center might be better, but if you keep it up, then seat backs will have less material. I see it as a push either way.

Off to the side might make a nice place to fit some larger cargo in the trunk... again, probably no big deal.

 

So? Are the SSA Decons the 15" sub of choice? The literature talks about them being used in small enclosures?

 

If you mount the sub off to the side, you won't be able to use the braces to attach the baffle which will make your install more difficult. I wouldn't do it that way simply because I wouldn't be able to stand the lack of symmetry

 

They Dcon looks good for IB. "The" IB sub of choice would be the Acoustic Elegance SBP15. Made just for IB, super low inductance, just an amazing subwoofer whether you like very low stuff, I play some stuff with 15hz content and they will play to 2khz if necessary. They really have the best of all worlds, great midbass snap, very quick and tight and they have amazing 20hz response. Xmax is good at 19mm and xmech is 25mm. The one downside is they are built to order and take a while sometimes. Mine took 5 months but lately it looks like people are getting them in about a month.

 

A single 15 is not that hard but not that easy to fit between the braces but it can be done here's my old temporary setup with a Tempest X (as you can tell by the 30 minute installation with leftover mdf). For some reason a single 15 looks huge. I swear my car is usually spotless and with all of the carpet installed.



The dual IB15s

 

That's awesome!!!

I'm assuming you spaced the front MDF from the brackets so the sub doesn't rest against the brackets? or the font MDF is thick enough to recess the rim of the sub? Im not sure how thick the rim of those subs is.

I'm not quiet done, but im using birch plywood. It has a fairly nice smooth finish, but it wont be exposed anyway....from my testing, both the birch and MDF offered the same flex strength, but the birched plywood weights half of the MDF of the same size (but twice the price, i believe...about $20 for a 2'x4'). I'm just slapping an IBQ12 centered for now and see how it goes...I can always make another baffle fairly easy if I decide to add one more.

Something for the OP to consider as an alternative.

What's your take on the birch? I honestly went with it only because the freaking MDF felt so heavy lol......Had my trunk completely gutted up until now, so adding weight back on the car is kinda hard for me to get used to now.

 

I know people have used Birch with success. Supposedly MDF damps vibrations better, not sure how important that is. Jerry would probably know.

I used two pieces of 3/4" MDF. The sub top mounted to one and the other fit around the outer diameter so the sub was recessed 3/4". If you bolt it to the braces which is the preferred way, you'll have just enough clearance even at full excursion. Just don't bolt it to both the braces and the outer perimeter to the body of the car. It leads to crackling wood when you go over bumps and corner hard. One or the other, braces or outer perimeter.

If you back mount it as I did with the pair of 15s, seat clearance is a non issue.

Here's the two sheets together screwed and glued.

 

Thanks...

That makes a lot of sense....
I'm bolting to the braces as well, and mounted it on the back, but removed the braces and shoved it in. I cut it at nearly precise extending to the far sides for better sealing...pinning the top against the edge of the bottom of the deck with a fender washer so its held tight to avoid any vibrations...probably going to make some L brackets and pin it in a couple of places on the bottom....it should be good enough.

I don't think I'll be seeing any 15s in there...like you mentioned the AE are made to order...god only knows how much they go for lol...im gonna stick with IDQ12, and maybe 2nd one to follow in near future.

I don't mean the threadjack, and I apologize to pohljm..

A question...and maybe others can learn too....

Im going to run a 5ch 100rms x4 +500 sub @4ohm initially (PDX-V9)
But I actually have 2 amps now...I was wondering and thinking, if I bridge one amp and have 200rms to each front component + bridge the other amp and have 150 rms to each rear.....do you think the subs would be overpowered by the other 4 speakers?

This is just an idea for now, but will see and do, if i decide not to sell one of the amps.

 

That V9 should be a nice amp. They seem to be liked A LOT more since their 1000.1/4.100, etc days. Those were terrible amps for the most part.

Nothing should be anywhere near overpowered in that setup. You'll be fine


PS.....this Q450.4 is a BEAUTIFUL amp

 

The V9 seems nice....its still in the box, going to tackle this over the weekend. Ordered AC Matrix plus, should be here tomorrow, now heading out to get some RCA cables.
I have the V60 in the trunk...it is not a bad amp, but more of an entry level (which is what I am lol)

Now on your comment about the subs being overpowered from the other 4 speakers....if I do end up doing this, ill have to ditch the front components (JBL 90w RMS....anyone? lol) and have been looking at CDT. Im still learning about all the brands and whatnot.....im literally 3 weeks into this!!! so I don't know enough....so, many thanks to your replies, IHC's and everyone elses (despite the fact that this isn't even my thread)

 

^^ No worries Opel! We are both doing about the same thing here. All information and questions are appreciated.

The MDF is denser, but the plywood of the same thickness is by far stiffer. Not sure is better, but I think stiffer is................no comment.

Now its time to shop for a sub for IB. Those Dcons are pretty reasonable. On DIYMA I have even seen the Pyle blue wave 15's recommended and they are cheap. I did read the low cost driver in IB setup thread. so I dont think I need to spend a ton. Plus that will give me more budget for the components.

Any IB subs that you guys recommend?

Another question? can the sub be mounted from the rear to allow it to be removed and possibly increased in size without having to remove and reseal the baffle? use a 12, see how that goes and perhaps upgrade easily to a 15 if needed?

Also in terms of the impedance of the sub, 2 or 4, or dual 2 voice coil, does it only matter if I may add a second one at a later date? just want to make sure I am purchasing pieces that wont become obsolete when upgrading.

 

I picked the birch plywood for weight only.

As far as subs....IHC recommends AE15, some recomentd IDQ12.

The impedance does matter.... SVC or DVC i don't think so much...but it all comes down to the amp driving them....your amp's sub channel ratings are 180W rms @ 4ohm and 300W rms @ 2ohm .

Depending on how you want to run your amp will determine your sub impedance selections... example...2-dvc subs with 2 ohm coils can be wired in the following= 1st sub wire coils in series=4ohm load---- 2nd sub wire coils in series=4 ohms. WIre the 2 subs together in parallel, and your amp will see a final load of 2 ohms, thus resulting in 300W rms output power.

subs with 4ohm dvc- 1st sub coils in parallel=2ohm----2nd sub coils in parallel=2 ohm. wire subs in series=4ohm, and amps output will be at 180w RMS.

SVC subs....2-4ohm subs, in parallel=2ohm. 2-2ohm subs, in series=4 ohm

there's many combinations...but in the end, its important to match your Amps ratings. Knowing whether you're gonna run your amp at 2 or 4 ohm is the starting point. Then you can pick the subs

If you wanna go with one, get a 40hm SVC and later you can wire the other in parallel and your amp will see 2 ohms... or get a 2 ohm, and later wire it along with the 2nd one in series, and your amp will see 4 ohms. DVCs give you plenty of options.... 2 DVC subs can be wired in more configurations

 

I agree with Opel. I've run several subs IB now, only one of them is an "IB" sub. I've seen more and more people running most of the popular "box" subs IB with very good results. I'm starting to think any sub that works in a sealed box will work (possibly better) in IB.

I would go for cone area first, excursion second. None of the recommended parameters are set in stone but my preference is low Fs (20hz or below) and mid to low Qts.

Whether or not you can rear mount the sub is specific to that subwoofer. For example, you can't back mount a W6/7 sub but the IB15s can be mounted that way. I would do a baffle that attaches to the car with a large center section cut out and a second baffle with the sub cutout. That way you can quickly remove the second baffle and replace with a different sub size cutout. Back mounting a 15 on a 12" hole will only work with certain subs.

I've run a single 12W6 IB and output was pretty good. If you're going to run a subsonic at 30hz or so, it should be fine. Where you need a pair of 15s is if you listen to stuff like Dubstep at high volumes where you potentially need 15-20hz output. 30hz is really low and I doubt you would be disappointed from a single 12 with good excursion. There's also no reason not to do a 15 unless the brand you want does not come in a 15.

Dual VC subs are more flexible or I should say give you more amplifier options. A dual 4 ohm sub can be run 2 or 8 ohms to a mono amp. A pair of dual 4 ohm subs can give an amplifier load of 1, 4, or 16ohm. With 2 channels available you get even more options. A pair of 4ohm single VC subs like mine can be run either 2 or 8ohm to a single amp channel or just 4 ohm each to a 2 channel.

 

I believe the JL sub channel is either 4ohm or 2ohm. so a ____ohm dual voice coil sub would be the most flexible?

IHC, On another note is it possible to mount the JL under the seat and still be able to access controls? is there a best orientation or location that you have determined that the amp should be mounted?

 

Controls facing toward the rear of the car. That way you can push the seat all the way forward for access if you mount the amp deep under the seat to avoid being kicked. There's a structural beam on the floor near the front of the seats making access from the front very difficult. I stuffed my amps as far under the seats as they would go to avoid getting kicked and to make them more difficult to steal. If I had it to do over again, considering I have people in the back seat maybe once a year I would have mounted them with the same orientation but not so far forward so I don't have to move the seats up for adjustments.

 

^^ Thats what I was thinking too!

So? how many ohm dual voice coil sub should I be considering?

 

I'm gonna run mine from the trunk, and make some kind of curtain to hide it away. The pdx-v9 is small enough to fit under the seat, but I just don't feel like extending power wire, re-routing all wires and rip apart the whole interior again.....

On that note, I wish az would make a mobile version of the site LOL

 

Do you think these are something I should consider? It is local pick up for me.

http://www.streetnoyz.com/store/imag...subwoofer.html

Also.....Do you think you can get great sound without a processor?

 

Hell no. Those are simple ID Series, not IDQ. They were not made very well and will not have very much output. They are worth maybe $40/each.

 

Thanks Jerry! I could offer them 80! ha What do you think about the necessity of a processor?

This is another sub that got praise in IB.
Funny the amazon reviewer was runnin it IB as well.