IPSEC04TL

My car is out of warranty, is there a TSB for this?

Omega P

The dealership maybe lying or they might not have even taken the time to look up the TSB. Regardless, it doesn't matter. The dealer doesn't have to admit or verify if there is/isn't a TSB. The TSB is for their information not yours. Usually, when you call the service dept. it's a service advisor/consultant who answers & they're not techically inclined anyway. If you're having a HFL problem you have to take it into the dealer for diagnosis just like any other warrantable concern.

fish008

There is no specific TSB for cars that are in warranty and those that are out of warranty. If your car has a HFL issue and has not had the bluetooth module replaced they should still fix it at no charge. This issue did not arise as a result of mileage or wear-and-tear and was a preexisting problem that Honda/Acura was aware of. This problem should be fixed at no charge, regardless of mileage.

DMZ

All 2004 TL’s up to VIN# 69734 are eligible for HFL replacement per the Acura Service Bulletin, TSB 05-020.
It can be done out of warranty if it was never done to that vehicle before.

Print this out and bring it to the dealer:
http://www.in.honda.com/Rjanisis/pubs/SB/b05-020.pdf

IPSEC04TL

You guys are great, thank you, my HFL isn't that bad, but sometimes requires me to repeat myself far too many times

DMZ

One of the reasons you shouldn't hesitate to get it replaced

Mase075

OK, just got back from Acura of Dayton, they want $120 to diagnose it and said that it's 99% chance it will not be covered by goodwill if I do it. So at this point I may as well just order the part myself and install it myself... Unless anyone in the Ohio area has had luck with another Acura dealership?

fish008

Here is my thought on that, F that. Tell them it doesn't understand you half the time and comes up with completely different number than you actually said. Tell them it locked you out of everything related to the audio system and that it couldnt be fixed without turning the car off and again restarting it. Or just go to another dealer and have them do it and stop doing to that stupid dealer who is refusing you service without hassle. Also make a complaint against them with Acura Client Service or whoever that is.

DMZ

FUCK THEM, AND THE HORSE THEY RODE IN ON !!!!!!!!

I'd be making my presence known to everyone there especially potential customers in the showroom. Make a complete pest of yourself with multiple copies of the TSB in hand. Ask for the General Manager, and don't stop getting on their case until they do what we all know what they should be doing. Scaring away potential customers can have the same effect as grabbing them by the gonads and squeezing H-A-R-D.

Acura Client Services can be about as useful as tits on a door, so you'd probably waste your time getting them involved, that is, unless you called the 800 repeatedly again and again and again and again and again.

Remember the Arrowsmith song at the end of The Sopranos:
DON'T STOP BELIEVING ...................

Omega P

You would absolutely waste your time getting ACS involved. I'm assuming your out of warranty & if you are then they have the right to charge a diagnostic fee. The fee is a geographically appropriate labor rate. Make an ass of yourself in front of potential customers & they'll either waive the diagnostic fee or kick you out of the dlr & request you don't return. The dealer has the right to refuse service if you're not within the warranty. Trust me, it happens often.

mwmaroney

I plan on taking in my 04 TL to a south FL dealer to see if they will fix this for free, they seem to be cheap down here though...

Mase075

Let me know how it goes in Florida at the dealership, I'm driving my TL down there from Ohio for a few weeks to meet up with some old friends down there. So if it works out for you maybe I can get an appointment in the same place.

Kursor

My 04 TL HFL has been acting up for quite some time now, since I was at 70, 000 KM. It took several tries to dial a number (many times recognizing 888 at the beginning all the time), and just now that I'm at 90 000 km, the whole thing won't pair up to my new iphone. In fact, it freezes during pairing and stays active even with the car turned off and keys out. In fact, this took over my Navi voice, so I couldn't even use Navi either. I left it over night hoping that it would have at least enough juice for me to turn on so I ca take it to the dealer. Next morning the battery is dead and I get a boost from CAA.

I took it to Acura on Brant (Burlington Canada), showed them the TSB. They call me up and say "It's fixed." I had to press them for an answer if they had replaced the HFL unit or not, and after being on hold for a few minutes, the rep comes back after speaking with the 'Service Manager' and says no it wasn't replaced and that there was nothing wrong with the HFL, they were able to pair and use their phone no problem.

I get back to the dealer and they ding me for $50 diagnostic fee. I'm like fuck it that's fine, I'm going to go the car and try to pair my iphone again and see if it screws up and it does! I immediately go in there and demand I get a tech to witness this and to refund me my $50. The service manager refuses and says if I want further 'diagnostics' it'll cost me. He refused to even get a tech to look at it for 1 minute. So I just demanded they disconnect the battery to reset the HFL. What fuckers.

DMZ

The dealer gets reimbursed by Acura for replacing the HFL module if your VIN falls within the range specified on the TSB, so they don't loose anything by doing it.

As suggested in other posts, ask to see the General Mgr with a copy of the TSB in hand. If that doesn't work, raise a stink in the showroom when they're good and busy. The last thing they want is potential customers scared away. Your other option is to try another dealer.

HY_BUSA

This is a very good thread- thanks for posting, all. Almost just what I was looking for.

I'd like to chime in with comment and question.

Comment: Learning to raising a stink diplomatically and tactfully can serve you well, though it may still not get you what you want or need. Better ammo to visit several dealers in your area and get to know the staff BEFORE you need something. Regular service helps in this regard for those of you who use the dealership for that. Personally, I don't, but that helps if you do.

My '04 TL 6-spd Navi had wheels locks as a part of my deal. My wheel lock "key" broke during a removal attempt and I ended up going to two dealers trying to get replacement locks. The first dealer would only sell me a new package of locks for $40plus, (service advisor was stuck on a mileage/out-of-warranty album track), despite my complaining and a diplomatic fit thrown all the way to the GM. My first and last time at Performance Acura, Cincinnati, OH (west side). Small stuff, but poor customer treatment- I'm leaving out the service advisor's drama. I was willing to pay ~something~, but not overpay and tolerate an attitude while doing it.

From there, I went to Columbia Acura of Cincinnati (east side, Montgomery area) where I've shopped prior to buying, had service done and respect their work. I bypassed service spoke with a knowledgeable parts counterman with better results. (I had spoken with parts at Performance too to no avail). The Columbia counterman jiggled a package, showed me a hint of a reorder form inside outlining registration, replacement costs and instructions. I had kept mine and for about $12.00 for a new key, I ordered directly from the manfacturer: McGard, West Seneca (Buffalo), NY.

Moral- ask around (more than one dealer. Keep your original packaging and paperwork (the counterman said most owners that come his way have kept the locks, but thrown the registration/lock code away with the packaging.

Now my question: Does anyone happen to know if the HFL upgrade is Blutooth version 2.0 or later instead of (I'm assuming) 1.0 or something "pre-2.0" in '04s?

xcelir8TL

Can anyone tell me where I can order a replacement unit directly off the Internet? This is all I am after at this point.

lebshiff21

http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...9770-SEP-A01ZA

That's for the gray roof color.

39770-SEP-A01ZB - Light Tan
39770-SEP-A01ZC - Light Cream Ivory

xcelir8TL

Thanks! Know of any other places to order online also with these part numbers?

lebshiff21

I only looked on two other online Acura dealers:

acuraoemparts.com
oemacuraparts.com

Neither of them had it. Didn't try anywhere else.

HardTech

I went to the Acura dealership in Burlingame California, Mike Harvey Acura. The service technician actually yelled at me because he said he wasn't going to replace a part that's working. I showed him what was wrong with it and he said that it was my fault and there was nothing wrong with the HFL.

I talked to the service manager and he said to come back on Tuesday and he'll take care of things. He's also going to talk to that service manager about his attitude.

Anyway, I'm having the same problems as everyone else, but I'm using two phones not on the list. Based on my previous issues with this dealership, I don't think they'll do anything if they can get out of it.

nickpoore

So, I have problems with my HFL.

With my TREO 700wx, it sucks.
It will drop a bluetooth call (transfer back to phone) often.

Sometime the audio quality will suck so badly that the people on the other end will not be able to hear/understand me.

It's a shame that the MID does not display the signal strenght or battery.

I have had the HFL replaced twice by the dealership.
(Once when it was about a year old, once recently with this SB.)

The system still works as before.
I've replaced my phone, but the qulity is the same.

I recently had a 2007 Acura TSX loaner car for a week.
The BT did not drop the calls as often (if at all).
The call quality was reasonable.
The speech recognition still sucked.

I really don't think there's any solution for me here.
I might try a new cellphone but am not really sure if that will help.
There's nothing the dealership can do for me.

Perhaps I just need a new car...

fish008

I have three thoughts. First, I think it is your phone that is the problem. Second, the MID does display battery and the radio display also shows signal stregth. Third, you're going to dump your nice TL because one thing doesn't work right? That doesn't make sense - its like a girl I know wanting to buy a car just because of the heated cupholders - it just doesnt make sense. Try a new phone. I have run 2 different phones since I have owned the car and they have both worked fine. They were both Motorolas, E815 and KRZR.

snowmanTL

What Modeler is saying is true, I have a '04TL and my HFL locked completely up while using my bluetooth phone. I took it to the dealer they replaced the HFL, and put in a new steering button as well. It worked much better after I got it back. Also I don't know if it applies to everyone but the lady's voice comes through the speakers much clearer now as well! The whole system is much easier to use now.

GUMP

You will see in this post that my dealer originally said they would replace the part, then denied that they said it. After telling them to never touch my car again, they realized their mistake and replaced it under the bulletin. My BT works very well now..It recognizes my commands now almost all the time. I was getting that crazy 800 code, etc. Force the issue. There is definitely something wrong with the original equipment.

nickpoore

I was only joking about replacing the car.

Anyway, yep, it's probably the phone.
I have borrowed a Verizon Samsung i760, and will see how well it performs.
The MID displays work again (they work on my Razr too), just not on my Treo.
The sound quality is okay. I haven't yet had a phone call so bad that I needed to transfer it to the handset; then then I've only had this phone for <24 hours.

The main reason that I pointed out my Treo was to see if anyone else was having problems with a Treo and this car.

Now - where did you suggest I go car shopping?

Mase075

I gave up and replaced the HFL myself. Acura of Dayton and Acura Client Services are both worthless in my opionion. I now do all of my car work myself.

miah2178

I try to pair my Pearl to the car and it locks up. My VIN falls within the range. Spitzer Acura of Canonsburg, PA diagnosed it for free when I got an oil change and marked the HFL as malfunctioning. I showed them the TSB and the service guy said his manager wouldn't let him do it since the car has too many miles. 119k (nothing is close by where I live)

I feel the problem is with the HFL when it was manufactured, NOT how many miles the car has on it. When it locks up...it drains the battery! Why wouldn't they fix this or even try to get approval? They quoted me $668.xx parts + labor to replace the HFL. The service rep suggested I purchase a bluetooth headset if I wanted to use bluetooth in the car.

I saw the link http://www.acuraautomotiveparts.org/...9770-SEP-A01ZA for the HFL unit (grey) at $282.14. This doesn't appear to include the "relay box" for the NAVI side. I have NAVI and do I need this to FIX the problem?

I'm pretty stubborn and I would looove to have this working in my car! Has anyone had this replaced AFTER warranty expired? If so how many miles and where did you take it?


Oddities (aka screwing around with a broke HFL) : Once the system is reset (aka fuse reset) I can press the BACK button on the steering wheel HFL button for 10 seconds and it says "The hands free system is OKAY.......The hands free system is OKAY". When I try to delete the ONLY phone listed (Lisa's phone) it will say that it's been deleted. When I say "list" again it doesn't say there are no phones listed but yet makes a hiss noise. So what do I do? I say delete again and it asks if I want to delete the hiss noise. I agree but this time it gets stuck in a loop. I also tried to rename "Lisa's phone" to which it actually let me rename it but made some crackling pop noises when it did. I think it's a bad area of memory. When I renamed it to me and then deleted that, guess what happened? The hiss noise came back and when I deleted that guess what? LISA's PHONE came back! WOW amazing! I just did HFL forensics and "recovered" a phone entry. j/k Another fun thing I was able to do is pair mode....the Pearl will find the car...but the car will lock up. Since my phone has the car paired, I reset the car. Then, on the phone I do a "refresh service list" and the phone try's to pair with the car in reverse. The car says "Pairing from the phone to the HFL is no allowed". Basically access denied. That's about all I can do with it since it locks up on pair. I'm stuck with "LISA's PHONE".

fluxcapacitor3000

what could i tell the service department once i call them first thing in the morning?

fish008

When you call you need to highlight several issues as major problems. First when you call I would say that your HFL locked up and that nothing worked, the radio, bluetooth, ect, and no matter what buttons you pushed nothing happened. Then would tell them that you were forced to pull over and turn the car off to correct the problem. Then I would voice concern about that happening again and some other part of your car failing on account of this, like ABS or airbags (the key here is to be dramatic about your concern for your personal safety). Then point out dialing issues like 808 or *888 appearing on the MID screen when you say a 7 digit number. All of this actually happened with me, including saying a 7 digit number that contained no 8 or * and getting a *888. Very frustrating. If you do this I would imagine your chances of getting your HFL replaced are quite high. Do yourself a favor and make sure your VIN falls within the VINs listed on the TSB.

fish008

CORRECTION:

Then I would voice concern about this POTENTIALLY happening again and some other part of your car failing on account of this, like ABS or airbags (the key here is to be dramatic about your concern for your personal safety).

miah2178

Well, I gave ACS a call, they took my info twice as apparently he clicked the back button and erased my info. Then I was forwarded to a "case agent" which was something I didn't expect. The case agent calls me to chew me out that I should want to get this fixed because after all....drum roll...I had too many miles and out of warranty.

I completely agree, I'm out of warranty BUT this has nothing to do with warranty or wear and tear issues. It's a bad part that was put on the car at the factory! I pointed out the issue of the TSB 05-020 and that I've seen on the forums that quite a few people have had this same problem and that by replacing the HFL all the problems go away including draining the battery overnight leaving you with a dead car. He mocked me and said that people on the internet can't be trusted, that anyone can post what they want and then proceeded to compare everyone on this forum with people that worship Elvis! I confronted him on the issue of what he just compared to which he got really angry and defensive.

ACS literally chewed me out because I wanted to get this fixed under good will. All I was doing was asking could they do it...and I was calm the entire time...so why did they have such an attitude? I think it's because I had access to the TSB. ACS's logic is flawed saying "well not all the cars within that VIN range had problems with the HFL". Well, that MIGHT be true however, how many people in that VIN range actually USE the HFL? I think if that was 100% you could draw a better correlation.

What is the chance we could get them to actually move this TSB to a recall status? Are recalls only for safety related issues? It seems to me that if they are bold enough to put a VIN range, that it's not a problem inherent in ALL HFL but only certain ones manufactured within a period. He tried to tell me that the TSB is only for helping the mechanics find a problem and repair it faster. The way they (TSB) are worded to me seems that they are aware of a problem with a specific range of cars.

Since it seems I will have NO chance of getting good will on this part...can anyone tell me that has fixed this themselves, does this part HFL Moon Lake Gray include the relay box mentioned in the TSB and is it necessary? Thanks in advance...

DMZ

miah2178,

Although I agree wih the ACS guy that there probably are some people on this forum who do worship Elvis while there's others here who are as dumb as hell, he had no right to talk to you in that manner. How did you talk to him before hand? There's an old saying, "You Can Catch More Bees with Honey Then You Can With Vinegar". Then again, having dealt with ACS myself, I've learned that some of them are actually apathetic Elvis worshipers themselves. Try and contact your regional Honda/Acura service office and get in touch with whomever the regional service rep is.

It took me 15 calls to ACS about my never ending roof rattle issue before I started to get results. I kept calling back until I got a human being with a brain on the other end.

BOTTOM LINE: It's a known defect that came with the car, and they should replace the HFL for you no matter what.

2004Tru3Lov3

The TSB that was posted here was issued in the US. Does it cover Canadian TLs? It is very easy for the dealership to say that Acura Canada has not issued any such "recall".

Thanks.

imj0257

iTrader: (1)

hey i have an '04 and my HFL is fine :-0

Mase075

Acura Client Services and the service advisors at Acura of Dayton are the worst I have ever had to deal with. My Acura was 3yrs old when I attempted the goodwill last year with 80,000 miles. To put it in perspective BMW of North America just did a goodwill on my 8yr old BMW with 110,000 miles which cost them $6,500, they even covered the diagnostics. Acura Client Services requires a diagnostics for potential goodwill and will not pay for it, and your chance of getting it replaced under goodwill will be slim to none. Needless to say if you just want it fixed like I did just order the part $300 and fix it yourself ~10min job. Now it's time to focus on the memory seats that can never remember the settings (another bad part that had a service bulletin).....

xcelir8TL

I have an 04 and in the winter time I've had problems.

It's hard for me to find an accurate part number and place to order from. I don't want the old part, I want the new one.

Anyone can help me?

Brian

Mase075

I called my local dealership and had them give me the new part number for the HFL unit based on my VIN and then I ordered it online.

RTLNOOBIE

i replace mine about 3 months back and it still shitty. when i says 4 it give start lol. i never use it anyways. i dont want people in car with me hear my conversation.

HY_BUSA

I have avoided doing business with them (Acura of Dayton - A of D) as well- despite the fact that they are my closest dealer. I recently had the Infiniti Body shop do some accident repair work and A of D screwed them over too. The body shop had my car a month, three weeks of which was A of D ordering the wrong parts. (HellOOOH? Aren't you an ACURA DEALERSHIP?)

I would also avoid Performance if you did not buy there- based on being treated that way. I moved here from CT and have been persona non grata to these dealers (since I did not buy there, I can only suppose).

I have had good experiences with Columbia in Montgomery (Cincy). They clearly want you to use them for service on a repeated basis- as if they know how poorly other area dealers treat their customers.

At this point, like you I've resorted to doing my own work/service due largely to convenience and cheaper parts from Acura dealers on eBay or other sources online.

I also recommend www.Alldatadiy.com (owned by Autozone) for a $15.00/yr online manual/TSB subscription. They just added late model Acuras a few months ago (had to wait for Honda to release them).

mkarg

After trying for several years to get my HFL replaced on my '04 TL, my dealer finally came through (one week before my warranty expires). I can't believe the difference. I used to have to scream at the top of my voice and I would have to repeat things many times. Now I can just whisper and the new unit understands with 100% accuracy. If your unit is giving you trouble keep pushing the dealer to replace it. If your warranty is expired they might do it under "good will."