I finally installed the last of my speaker upgrades, the Esotar 110 tweeter. They're not cheap but after an hour's listening time tonight on familiar music, worth every penny and more. Pure musical bliss. Without a doubt, the best tweeter I've ever had the pleasure of listening to by a huge margin. It's been called the best tweeter in the world and I'm beginning to believe the hype. So dynamic and crisp and detailed and sharp yet they never hurt your ears or fatigue. Absolute perfection. With no eq on the front stage yet, they blend so incredibly well with the midrange. The system has gained a whole new level of detail and sharpness. It even makes the subs sound more dynamic. The front stage really pops out now. Absolutely amazing tweeters in every way. I think I will drive the car into work tomorrow instead of carpooling.

More to come as I get more listening time but these are beyond impressive and that's coming from a very good small format tweeter already. I think everyone should experience one of these tweeters at least once.

 

Congrats on the install! Now hope you don't get tired of them. haha

Mounted into the stock opening?

 

Thanks. There are some things you can tell the first time you listen to them that they're something special, something you'll never replace. I've done my system in stages, usually with months in between component upgrades so I got a good idea of the changes each component makes. I don't think I put enough weight on the importance of a great tweeter or I would have done these sooner. I would say the midbass was the smallest change (in a 3-way) until you get to the higher volumes and the larger one really shines. The midrange was a big change and I would have to put the tweeter right there with the midrange. In order of importance from my experience and in a 3-way I would have to say midbass would be last on the list, then subs then mids/tweeters being the most important. It's interesting how a good tweeter will make the whole system, including the subs sound as if they're more dynamic. I've finally got my dream system, I don't think I will be making anymore changes, not even to the subs. With the additional processing power, I've gotten these subs to sound spectacular and I can't justify running anything else unless I had a 3rd one. Pics of the whole system to come, once I get the tweeters mounted. Right now they're velcroed to the dash lol. I just had to try them out but I didn't have time to actually install them.

 

Are they firing up at the windshield or on axis?

 

Hi Jerry, I was too afraid to reply to the last text, I didn't know if it would be too late. I tried towels on the dash and between the tweeter and windshield and it's an improvement. Not like the 102 though. I think I've heard the 110 is better off axis but it sure seems like it has less reflections than the 102, almost like dispersion is narrower. Maybe the much larger face plate makes the difference but with them facing slightly toward the rear of the car, the stage is as focused as the 102s were in the kicks.

A little off topic but is it weird that the car sounds best with absolutely zero eq on any speaker other than a -15db cut at 52hz with a narrow Q on the subs? I'm sure once I get an RTA there will be narrow peaks and valleys to correct but overall it's extremely nice with no eq, just some basic TA.

These tweeters are better than I could have hoped for. I would say there's a larger difference between the 102 and 110 than there is between stock and the 102 and the 102 is a very good tweeter. One big difference I've noticed is when I boost or cut the eq on the 110s, I do it in 1/4db increments and changes are very noticeable. I can boost 16khz and hear an immediate change. With the 102s I would typically boost or cut in 2db increments to make any appreciable change and past 8k it was hard to hear much of a difference. I'm incredibly happy with this setup. Now I need to learn how to tune. You don't happen to sell the mic setups for the RTAs, do you?

 

Nice congrats, where are they mounted.

 

pics Matt..pics!

 

Not weird at all. EQ should be minimal. Lots of eq can make the system sound over-processed and make the amp strain.

I do have to agree though.....

 

Do you guys really want to see a couple tweeters half assed velcroed to the dash? lol.

I bought some aluminum barstock and a new Makita 18v impact driver that I really want to try out. I'm thinking of "hanging" the tweeters next to the midrange, basically right between the midrange and midbass. Hopefully I won't have to worry about any comb filtering. I have tomorrow off so there's a good chance I might have some installed pictures by then.

This only reinforces that I'm still learning and on a sharp learning curve. For instance, I understand that the snap of a snare typically occurs at a higher frequency than most people think. However, by changing the tweeters with nothing else and if I didn't know any better, I would say the midbass gained a lot of pop and snap. It's surprising to me that a tweeter crossed at 4khz/24db can have such an effect on the perceived midbass and midrange sound so lesson learned.

I'm looking forward to the Dec 1st SoCal meet so I can get some tuning ideas. I also need to buy a mic and all of the necessary RTA equipment. Anyone know of a setup that not only does the usual RTA stuff but also measure time delay?

I'm very glad there's very little eq needed and the incredible snap of these tweeters without ever getting harsh. I haven't been this excited to get in the car and drive in a long time. It's just effortless. I had one co-worker listen to it today and after his review several others wanted to listen. I think I gave 10 demos today and most were positive. Some couldn't get past the TA and the stage. Some thought something was wrong because all of the sound was "coming from the tweeters" lol. Some really couldn't wrap their heads around TA and stage. I'm going off topic now but this large of a change was totally unexpected and I feel like a little kid right now. I have to go to Tulare (55 miles) tomorrow to buy an engagement ring and I'm so excited to have that hour to listen to the system. Hopefully it will take my mind off of the ring.

I've got to get some sleep, I've had 6 hours of sleep for the entire week. I've got to make sure I get up early to get these things installed. The really nice thing is the grill. Probably the only Esotar tweeter with a grill, allowing me to put them in or near the kicks with no fear of damage.

 

If you have an iPhone or iPad, Audiotools by studio six digital has a delay finder and impulse response. I believe Room EQ Wizard also does time alignment. With either one I think you need a two channel USB interface so you can loop back a signal and measure the delay time. I haven't tried setting my time alignment this way yet because it's kind of a pain to set up and it's easy to get good results with a tape measure and a calculator. When I tried measuring it manually I got pretty much the exact same results as the PXE auto tune.

For hardware:

I like the Dayton EMM-6. It's cheap, omnidirectional and comes with a calibration file you can load into whatever software you're using.

For the USB interface the ART USB Dual Pre is really good. It's a two channel interface, it supplies phantom power to your mic, and is compatible with the iPad/iPhone using the camera connection kit.

 

Don't Do It!!!



Good luck! I'll be picking mine up soon also!

 

This is the one Jim (bigred) & I used in my car a few days ago. Really nice hand held.

http://www.phonic.com/en/paa3.html

 

Thanks, Mark. Going to do an actual install tomorrow. I have some aluminum barstock, I think I'm going to attempt "hanging" them from under the dash, between the midrange and midbass. Hopefully it looks ok and mostly out of sight.

On a different note, I bought another 600/4. I plan on 300w per midbass, 150 for the midrange and tweeters. The main reason I bought the additional 600/4 is because I plan to do a 1200/1 for the subs and sell the 900/5. That should be enough power for just about anything I choose in the future. Since I got rid of the MS8, midbass excursion has been cut by 200% literally, at the same output. . I may try and build up the doors and more importantly use the aluminum to reinforce the door card. With all the other speakers muted, the door cards make a ton of noise even at low volume. Also thinking of doing the 3 Dyns, 2 13W7s, or adding an additional IB15 but I love my trunk space right now. I might just push them as hard as I feel like pushing them and if I blow them one day I'll upgrade.

Still in love with the tweeters. I doubt sunlight will hurt them but another reason for the kicks is to keep them out of direct sunlight.

 

Wish I could hear it Matt. There's times when I hate not being near anyone with Dyn's, etc. I guess it's probably better in the long run for my wallet though lol


How's the PS8 treating ya now? I will say the MS-8 does a pretty solid job of up front bass with 1 12" firing through the skipass. I'm not sure if it's because I opened up that skipass by taking out that plastic piece. I can get some HARD mids/bass coming from directly in the center of the windshield & car. I'd be screwed when it comes to doing my own EQ though. I'm sure it's MUCH easier with your setup being closer to on-axis, better quality, etc. I'd likely have to make some serious cuts and spend a lot of time with an RTA and my ears. The MS-8 is kinda finicky though. At times I feel like it gives too much bass, other times not enough. Sometimes it's too harsh, other times it's too laid back sounding. Seems to be a common thing as I remember you saying you thought that also.

 

I've talked to Jerry about it. The MS8 does something weird. I don't know if it's the crossover section or what. To get the same excursion as I had with the MS8 with a 75hz highpass and 24db slope I have to use a 35hz highpass. Part of the reason I went with the 9s is I bottomed the 650s a couple times. I was wondering how all of these other people were getting loud with a 63-70hz highpass on a 6.5" when I had to use an 80hz or above to keep the mids from bottoming and those 650s had 1" of peak to peak travel.

When I ran test tones with the door panel off and the MS8 running I had a bit of excursion from the midbass with a 70hz highpass and a 20hz tone playing with a 24db filter. IMO, that should not happen. Right now with a 65hz highpass and with it really cranked up, I probably have 2-3mm of excursion vs about 10mm even with the 9s in there. I don't know how the MS8 eats up excursion without increasing SPL but it does.