Shinj1EVA

So long as the V710 has the Handsfree Link bluetooth profile, it'll work fine.

It has been said that the V710's bluetooth is crippled though (missing other profiles, but as far as I can gather, the V710 will link up w/ the TL).

redterminator

Actually, I'm in Tucson as well. I had AT&T for 4 years and it got exponentially worse and worse. Finally dumped them for Verizon, always get clear calls, no dropped calls. So I think Verizon is one of the best in this area. AT&T just sucked in service and quality, maybe merger with Cingular will do it some good.

msisaac

I'm not saying that DVD-A isn't a huge improvement over current CD technology. I've listened to LPs and CDs of the same album, and there is definitely a richer sound to LPs. I have listened to some DVD-As and CDs of the same album and I notice the richer sound as well. I'm merely stating that there is not much point to put this excellent sound system in a car. Most people are not going to be sitting in a sound proof garage listening to these DVD-As with the engine off. That is the only real way to get the full effect of the medium. When you are listening to it at 65-75 mph, on a busy freeway, with horns and trucks, and you have planes flying overhead and construction zones around, all of that great sound quality is reduced to the same quality as a good CD recording.

Also, I don't think the market wants anymore LPs, tapes, CDs or DVD-As. Nobody really wants a new disc format. People want 40 gig Ipods that are small enough to fit into a shirt pocket, yet can carry their entire audio collection 20 times over. People don't want to go out and buy the same 200 albums on DVD-A that they've already purchased on CD, then go and drop another $1000+ on a brand new DVD-A surround sound system. I just really feel that the DVD-A format is going to be short lived.

That's not to say that 5.1 surround sound music is going to go away. I think that with the push for mp3 players and storing music on hard drives or memory sticks, you'll simply see mp3s (or a new, easily portable format) start to support all of that multi channel 5.1 surround sound stuff. Instead of a 3 meg song, you may have a 30 meg mp3 that contains all the extra channel info. And then it would make sense to have your 80 gig Ipod to store all of your 5.1 surround sound mp3s.

I think it would have been smarter for Acura to focus on the mp3 format (or AAC files that iTunes uses, if they want to protect copyrights...). Either have a built in mp3 player that you can download new tunes to, or have the ability to hook up and control an ipod. That would have made more sense.

Matt

mbwmn

[QUOTE=

I think it would have been smarter for Acura to focus on the mp3 format (or AAC files that iTunes uses, if they want to protect copyrights...). Either have a built in mp3 player that you can download new tunes to, or have the ability to hook up and control an ipod. That would have made more sense.

[/QUOTE]


i suspect there are 2 reasons why Acura is not involved w/ mp3's;
-Legality (remember Napster, remember the RIAA)
-Quality of sound (w/ most newbies sampling @ less than 192kps an mp3 wouldn't come close to DVD-A quality)

it is nice to fit 4 albums of music on 1 cd...the Pioneer in my Toy p'up plays mp3's...

acura_driver

DVD-A is just too late to the game. I did buy a DVD-A disc, and it sounds great. But any music I buy from now on I want to be able to listen to in my car, with my home audio systems, at work, as well as in portables. So I don't see myself buying any more discs, CD or DVD-A.

As for Bluetooth, I'm with Verizon so I've not been able to make use of that feature yet.

-r

aznlstar

I was looking at the BMWs for the ipod integration...but wanted a 5 series.

As for DVD-Audio...I probably will never buy a disc. But with the ability to use disc welder, and make my own DVD-A discs (at cd quality of course)...it more then satisfies my wants for a mp3 player.

As for HFL...We didn’t have a Bluetooth phone when we first bought the TL. I decided to get one just to try it out…and well, everyone in the house has a Bluetooth phone now!

jzinckgra

Jeez, some of you guys complain too much about the DVD-A. I can just imagine if the car only came with the CD player, some of you would be like "Damn! What's wrong with the folks at Acura? They should have included the "new" DVD-A option as well. Sounds much better than CD's" :o Can't please everyone I guess

wstevens

DVD-A: This is not a vital feature for any car, but it is a FUN feature. I don't own a lot of DVD-A's and I agree that there is not much selection. However, if I had the choice, I'd listen to a song on a DVD-A over a CD or MP3. I definitely hear the difference and I think it sounds better. I do like some classical music and I've bought several classical DVD-A's that I enjoy listening to on longer trips. It's worth having in the car just for those trips.

Would the DVD-A feature sell me on a TL over another car? No. Would I rather take $500 off the price I paid for the car and NOT have DVD-A capability? No. Would I rather take $1000 off the price and NOT have DVD-A capability? Probably, but the DVD-A capability didn't push the TL price up $1000.

From reading the rest of this thread, I think some are afraid that, if the DVD-A movement dies, they'll have the equivalent of an 8-track tape player in the car and it will be embarrasing.

Bluetooth: This is the third best feature of the car, behind the smooth engine and great looking interior. I drive the 6MT and the bluetooth makes it possible for me to send/receive calls while driving. I just can't hold a cell phone and drive. Someday all cars will have Bluetooth or a similar technology.

kosh2258

I'll politely disagree with you about LP's having more content than a CD. CD's can have excellent sound so long as the mastering is carefully done and cutting corners is avoided. But, even then, there is still loss, or, more correctly, coloration, due to the interpolation that takes place reconstructing the analog wave form from the digital sampling. A superior DAC is mandatory to good reproduction - most players lack that.

But let's not forget that LP's are compressed down and have restricted dynamic range to keep the grooves from drifting into each other. A good phono stage, faithfully adhering to the RIAA curve, should restore quite a bit, but it is still an imperfect compromise. Sure, you can get half speed mastered LP's on heavy, quality vinyl and they sound great. But back before CD's the average LP was nothing to write home about - snap, crackle, pop - rice crispy. (I also don't accept the myth of the superiority of tube amps either...)

I do agree with your observation that convenience is overshadowing quality of experience with MP3. It's too bad more people can't hear the original master recordings on a superior system to realize how much of the music they're missing with MP3. The subtle details, that give a piece of music its character, are totally obliterated in most instances.

So I hope some form of high resolution format survives, because the more information recorded the better the reproduction of the original sound on playback. I guess I'm just and old fashioned quality not quantity type of person.

numexbigjim

From my perspective, the ELS surround system is the coolest gimmick in the TL. I love my car, but in particular, I love my music. Since I took delivery of my TL in March (and even before), I have purchased over 100 DVD audio discs. I have just been blown away by the sound. In fact, even before I took delivery, I would sit in the demo TL and audition DVD-As. This new and wonderful medium has even given me the incentive to go looking for high end home theater equipment so that I can recreate 5.1 surround in my home. It has given me an appreciation of many types of music (primarily due to the fact that the shortage of DVD-As has limited my normal choices and caused me to expand my tastes). Lest any doubt the sonic quality of the ELS system over any other, please read this article, which pretty much sums up my feelings: http://www.elssurround.com/absolute_sound.asp

As to the future of DVD-A, I have researched that issue to some degree. I hope that dual disc will pave the way for a ton of new releases, or at least enough to keep me happy! And to oblio98, thanks for the post to Crutchfield and the ELS interview.

Dkrudop

My thoughts exactly. The leaders into new technologies always have to "cut their way through the forest." DVD-A and Bluetooth are more cutting edge than other car companies have been willing to address. I have to say though...i think Acura really missed the boat when they put in the cassette deck and not an MP3 player or an iPod jack.

¿GotJazz?

Thee real question (as I've stated before), is whether you are hearing differences between CD and DVD-A because:

(1) There is a significant quality difference, or
(2) Because there is a significant remixing difference.

I'll bet on option #2. Why? If the original format was 2 channel (CD), there had to be a remixing effort to create the DVD-A. Even if the studio has the original multi-track recordings in pristine condition, the resulting 5.1 channel DVD-A would have to be mixed differently than the CD 2-channel format.

The only way to qualitatively compare DVD-A to CD is to record a stereo master using both algorithms off of the same mike feed. I do not know if this has been done yet, but I'd be interested if someone knows of an example.

Another point - the original S/N ratio of CDs approached 90+ dB. Considering that most homes have an ambient noise level that's higher than that, it's difficult to imagine hearing a "huge improvement" in detail between DVD-A and CDs. Subtle, maybe. But not huge.

In addition, does anyone know if DVD-A uses a variable bit rate algorithm? I'm pretty sure that movie surround sound audio does, which DVD-A is based upon. If DVD-A does use VBR, then DVD-A would be a "lossy" recording format. Variable bit rate algorithms compress the original data according to certain design criteria, where some scientists have decided what parts of the original information can be thrown away ("Let's use 12 bits of data here, and let's use 5 bits there".). I prefer my recording masters to be recorded as "linearly" as possible, which the PCM-formatted data for CDs does a pretty decent job of.

niarbdab

So, without responding to your statement as I'd like to, please enlighten me as to what your impression of "good" music is regarding DVD-A. I'd most like to know.

oblio98

DVD-A, the real tracks that the Acura can play, are pure, uncompressed, NON-lossy. Tje DTS and DD tracks ARE. (DVD-A is not based on movie surround tracks, it is a surround format, but cannot be compared to DTS or DD electronically as it is NOT COMPRESSED!)

That is what makes DVD-A special. A standard CD is only 16bits at 44.1kHz. When CDs came out, we were so impressed at not having to hear clicks, pops, and track noise, that we were all blown away and did not notice the lack of depth in the music.

DVD-A and SACD restore some of this info. On a good system, most people can instantly hear the difference between a 16 bit recording and a 24bit recording.

However, some of you are correct in saying that when you add the road noise, etc, of a car cruising at 70mph you will miss a lot of this "depth". The thing is, YOU DON'T HAVE TO USE IT! Should you actually have DVD-A capability at home, you can appreciate it there, then drag it with you in the car.

Still, we are not talking "minidisc" or "8 tracks" here as a format. The DVD-A player is also a CD player. So what's the big deal. You do not have to buy any DVD-A's if you like. The player will still play CDs. The fact that the BMW has iPod compatibility has nothing to do with DVD-A's being playable in the TL. That's a whole different, non-compatible thing.

If they add that to the 05 or 06, there is no reason they would drop DVD-A, one does not preclude another. Saying something is "useless" because they did not include something else does not make sense.

We have this capability in our cars, I think it's great! If the DualDisc takes off, and we have a lot more stuff to choose from, many of you will too!

Here's another place for DVD-A info: http://dvdaudiodaily.com/

:-jon

msisaac

I'm just willing to bet that the majority of the ~60K '04 TL owners, given the choice, would have rather had some form of mp3 or ipod player integration than the DVD-A. That's not saying that DVD-A is useless BECAUSE there is no included mp3 player. You're right, oblio98. One thing has nothing to do with the other.

I'm saying that the DVD-A stereo is useless FOR MOST PEOPLE for two reasons:

1. The extra "depth" of sound with DVD-A is lost, for the most part, when you get out on the road with all the extra noise.

2. Because the overall music market is heading to more and more portable formats, i.e., mp3 players, ipods, the future for DVD-A is very bleak. Why would we want to go back to the big binders of discs that we needed to carry around for CDs, when we can carry our entire audio collection with better than acceptable sound quality on a device that fits in our shirt pocket? This does not mean that DVD-A is useless because there is a lack of mp3 player support in the TL. I am saying that DVD-A is useless because the disc format itself (CDs or DVD-As) is slowly going to disappear in favor of more easily portable music.

I think most people put mp3s down because they don't rip their music correctly. If you rip your CDs into the highest quality mp3 format, there is no difference in sound between the original CD and the mp3. Most people probably are complaining about the sound quality of mp3s because they download their music off of P2P networks. Most mp3s from P2P networks are ripped into the lowest form of "acceptable" sound quality to make the file smaller for faster transfers. Any lower and you really start to notice the sound drop off.

If you're happy with your DVD-A and you can actually hear the difference at 70mph, then great. I'm happy for you! I really am. I wish I could hear the difference over all the road noise. Use your TL stereo the way you want to use it. I personally can't hear the improved quality when I'm driving, so, for me, this is a useless feature. I'm willing to bet that it is a useless feature for ~95% of TL owners.

I may be wrong, though. Acura, I'm sure, did market research and saw that there was a potential for this sound system.

Matt

Stewie

Well said. The format of having music on disks on any sort is going away, hopefully sooner rather than later.

The thing everyone forgets is that the record companies in general LOVE SACD and DVD-A for one reason, and its not the fact that they sound better; its the fact that the are SECURE formats and can't be ripped and shared.

Seems like this thread can be summed up this way:
1) DVD-A doesn't hurt anybody to have in the car because if you don't like/use it then you can still play your regular CD's just fine.
2) DVD-A would be more useful (whether or not you can actually hear a big difference) if there were a bigger selection from which to choose (how many damn times can you listen to Bohemian Rhapsody???).
3) The consensus from those that have used it is that Bluetooth is a step forward and very useful. All you need is a compatible phone. I have shown it to several people and they all loved it. Its useful, safer and more convienient than any other phone/car configuration out there.

cvajs

yeah, but the rem dvd-a made from same source as the cd material, probably just remastered to get 5.1 channels down onto dvd in dvd-a spec.

if produced/mastered for dvd-a & 5.1 channels, dvd-a will simply sound astounding compared to anything else out there. dvd-a spec allows for greater dynamics (larger bit widths and greater sampling rates) all in 5.1 (written to dvd-a spec, pcm or lpcm).

i use dvd-r media to take a bunch of ripped CD's (pcm) and burn them down into dvd-a using Discwelder Bronze, so i get approx 8 CD's onto one dvd-a (same idea as taking lots of mp3's down onto cdr).

numexbigjim

You are right that dvd-a is astounding if produced/mastered for 5.1. That is the entire reason for AIX studios: to record 5.1 surround directly on to DVD audio. Mark Waldrep has done a masterful job at this.

vtechbrain

Actually the car is the perfect environment for surround sound since its an enclosed space in which acoustics can be carefully tailored at a reasonable cost. Setting up a home system to the best acoustic signatures for surrond takes big bucks, as any audiophile is apt to point out. Cars such as the TL can have very quiet background where such systems can show its best charateristics. I beg to disagree, the car will be the place where advanced formats will gain popularity. I highly doubt that the recording industry will ignore for long 240k potential users with pockets deep enough to buy DVD-A's . Thats only considering Acura TL sales for the next 4 years as other automakers adopt the format, which they already are, sales could easily be twice or more than that. The new formats also promise a boon for the recording industry since they are the moment essentially impossible to copy, esssentially is a win win situation for them in all aspects. Panasonic has a history of adopting formats that stick around for a long time while Sony has a poor record in that respect (VHS vs Betamax, CD vs minidisk, compact flash vs SD memory). Only time will tell but DVD is well poised to be the format of the future.

BigBluu

love bluetooth. use it everyday. my baby in the back gets to hear her momma's voice.

smoore

If you want to compare the formats buy Hootie and the Blowfish's Cracked Rear Window. I also own it in CD. The disc has a 5.1 mix on one side and a stereo mix on the other, both in DVD Audio. The 5.1 mix is absolutely brutal, but the stereo mix is awesome and the sound is dramatically better than on the CD.

I own about 10 or 12 DVD Audios and I have reached the point where I am disappointed that I cannot purchase all of the music I play in the car in that format. The sound of some of the 'albums' is dramatically better than anything I have ever heard in a car before.

Frankly, I could care less about MP3. I have never gotten into downloading my own music and I suspect I never will. One of the reasons I haven't is that everything I have read suggests that the final product doesn't sound as good as CD. I don't see the advantage of a format that takes me backwords in sound quality. I don't buy that much music (probably half a dozen CDs a year and half a dozen music DVDs - except this year as I have purchased 10 or 12 DVD Audio discs) so price is not going to drive my decision. I am delighted that Acura decided to get ahead of the curve on a high definition audio format. In the end they may have made the wrong decision, depending on who wins the format war, but for the 4 years I own my car I will enjoy the DVD Audios I have and will purchase.

If we want more DVD Audios maybe those who have TLs and enjoy the formats should be writing to the labels that support the format, telling them we own TLs and we would like to see more releases in this format. If they got a couple thousand e mails or letters, then I think they would see the business sense in releasing more discs.