a_bu_lo

Hi guys,
Is there a site where we can download 5.1 surround songs?

bluenoise

Legally?

eal15

does anyone know where i can download dvd-a songs. legally or not.

OrangeMarlin

Not legally, I hope the RIAA sues you. It's theft.

Legally? At nearly 400MB per song, I doubt it.

w1n78

i don't think anyone is even sharing dvd-a files
1) who would rip dvd-a
2) too big of a file per song
3) not many are catching on to dvd-a

i'd look for a dvd-a forum and see if any individuals share themselves

Tajam

you guys do know people easily download dvd-v, memory isnt a problem, I couldnt find a DVD-A newsgroup yet. I once was able to download the porcupine dvd audio but it didnt work for some odd reason.

oblio98

DVD-A's have enough problems getting sold, let's not encourage stealing the damn things!

NOX 3.2

I wouldn't mind paying for downloading the DVD-A I like.
it's a convenience feature of this modern age.

there is no problem with broadband to download 4.7GB.
I probably get that much bandwidth usage in just spamming per week!

NiteCrew

I rip my stuff from DVD Video that has 5.1 track... but I did play around with stuff from the net... alt.binaries.sounds.dts... DTS (wav) - DTS (DTS) - Wav (6 channels) - DVD-A... Or you can start buying new Dual CD format and rip stuff from the DVD side...

OrangeMarlin

You pay >$30,000 for a new car and you have to steal music to save $15.00 on a DVD-A. Give me a break.

As for the size of the file, it's not a problem on the downloading side, it's more of a problem of bandwidth at the site that stores the DVD-A. You get 10-20 people downloading them, and that site is going to bog down with its bandwidth stretched to a limit. The whole point of MP3's is that you can download a song in a minute or so. A DVD-A is going to take you over 4.5 hours to download, even if you have a relatively high speed connection of 2mbps (and remember speed is measure in bits, so a 4.7 GB file is going to be over 30 gigabits). If you've got DSL, then you're running around .5-.75 mbps, so it might take 20 hours to download one file.

It's not going to happen legally. If you want to commit felonious acts and steal the intellectual property of the musicians and the record label, be my guest. But maybe you should have purchased a Kia if you're going to be so cheap.

Eardoc

I've enjoyed DVD-A in my home for over two years now. When my sister-in-law got her TL, I used an encryption-busting software to copy a few of my DVD-A. You won't be able to make a copy that works in anything without such software.

This DVD+R worked in my home unit, but didn't work in her car. So, if you were able to download and burn a 5.1 DVD-A it probably won't work either.

Because of my sister-in-law, I got my first Acura three days ago. Love it so far!

I'm into downloading music at legal places like www.thetradersden.com. I have all kinds of burning and editing programs. I've even been in contact with folks who are experts (not hobbyists) at audio and video editing. They've all told me - many after trying and failing - that with the copyguard and proprietary software, you're not going to copy and burn these 5.1 DVD-A discs. Give up. Same with SACD, in case you're interested.

All I wanted to do was make a song compilation DVD-A of my favorite tracks in their remixed 5.1 format. Can't do it. I'm a little worried about taking my store-bought DVD-A's into my car, but if I want to listen to them there, I must, because "back-up" copies don't work either.

Enjoy the music, but you'll have to buy it.

I've read here that you can use Wavelab software to take MP3's and make a DVD-A that holds about 50 songs, which works in the Acura. I like that idea, even though I know it won't be true 5.1. I haven't figured out how to do it yet, so if someone knows how, let me know. Meanwhile, it's too far off-topic in this thread, I'll start a new one.

Pankul

i share .. indian DVD-As that i have made. there are no copyright issues on them. they are movie songs which i buy in DVD-V format ($10 to $15 here in USA). and I then rip the 5.1 audio out of them to make my own dvd-a.

They sound awesome !

interested .. ? PM me.

Hawhyen51

Eardoc, here'a a link to get you started: Wavelab and you can do a search for Discwelder as well (Bronze being the most inexpensive). These two apps have the most success in making DVD-A discs. There is also a fairly new app developed by Sonic called DVD Audio Creator. More info can be found by clicking on the previous link.

Eardoc

Hey, thanks, I just got Wavelab, and I haven't figured out its secrets, but I just got a tutorial. The Sonic one looks interesting too.

I still don't think you'll be able to copy songs or full discs from commercial 5.1 DVD-A's or SACD's...or download them, to stay on the original topic. Hope I'm wrong, I'd still love to make a best-of compilation of the discs I have.

Pankul, look for my PM!

Thanks again!

¿GotJazz?

<rant> Why bother with DVD-A? It's just a gimmick. Having the first DVD-A for a car audio environment was purely done for Acura's marketing and not for sound quality. You can't even get stereo to work properly in car audio. Any purported improvments in DVD-A audio quality would get swamped out by road noise anyways.

Besides, DVD-A is not catching on. My local Fry's store used to carry DVD-A discs a few months back (I bought some to check out the sound quality), and now I saw their small remaining stock in the discount bin. It seems that DVD-A is already dying the slow death I forecasted when I first heard about it years ago.

I would have been a lot happier if we had MP3 playback in the 3GTL. It may be a lower quality recording, but in a car environment I don't care. I listen to my home system when I want quality. </rant>

oblio98

I cannot understand why some of you blame the fact that the TL can play DVD-A's as the reason that they cannot play MP3s. They are two different things. The DVD-A capability has NOTHING TO DO with the fact that the unit cannot do MP3. MP3 could have been added with no problem at all.

DVD-A is great. I love to listen to surround music in the car. To me, it's the perfect environment for listening to mulitchannel. The only downer is the lack of titles from the labels, and that has nothing to do with the format being bad. It is all to do with the Harry Fox agency and its ridiculous demands for 3x royalty payments for SACDs and DVD-As.

Hawhyen51

While we're on the subject of DVD-A, did anyone pick up the Rob Thomas DualDisc? On sale at CC for $10. BTW, it is DVD-A on the flip side.....

rochester_eric

I have John Hiatt's Bring the Family both on regular CD and DVD-A. There is a noticable difference in the song quality on the CD compared to the DVD-A.

What problems are you experiencing with your stereo? Mine works just fine.

Also, is it your position that DVD-A does not have better quality sound? If so, on what basis do you make that statement?

-Eric

Nodoze2004

yes and no. There is a flurry of activity online with DTS audio cd's. Many people have created their own 5.1 versions of their favorite albums, some are simply stunning.

I would not know how or where to download these illicit recordings though....

¿GotJazz?

The sonic differences between DVD-A and CD are due to remixing, not due to better sonic characteristics. I have purchased DVD-A "classics" that I hoped would just be in good-ol' stereo, but everything I have heard so far has been remixed for extra channels. I haven't found an apples-apples DVD-A yet that can prove that DVD-A is sonically better. DVD-A is just different, where the dudes behind the boards can add more sweetening and route audio to different channels, which will result in a different overall sound.

Regarding hearing stereo in an automotive environment, a lot of people have no clue what stereophonic sound is. A lot of folks have never heard stereo in their own homes. If you think that stereo is just music coming from two channels, you're wrong. If a home stereo system is set up properly (your listening position roughly forms an equilateral triangle with your speakers, speakers at the same height, speakers toed-in slightly towards the listening position, no furniture between the speaker drivers and the listener), the listener will hear a sonic stage where individual instrument positions can be located with respect to each other and a realistic "you are there" characteristic. When the stereophonic effect is occuring, you can turn down your room lights and your ears are fooled into thinking the instruments are really in your room, and you can hear that the piano is to the left and slightly behind the saxiphone.

None of that happens in an automotive environment. In a car, you can hear seperate sounds between the speakers, but they don't merge to form a realistic sound stage. You hear something from the left channel and something different from the right channel, but it is effectively just audio wallpaper. No stereo, just 2-channel music. That's what I mean when I say that I can't get stereo to work in my car, 'cause I can't. The stereophonic effect doesn't work.

This leads to why I believe that DVD-A was a dead format from the day it started. DVD-A is not the first time that more than 2 channels have been used for music. If you're old enough, you might remember quadrophonic sound or matrix audio. Quadrophonic sound was 4 channels of audio put onto an LP vinyl record.

The problem then (and today) is that multi-channel music doesn't make the musical experience more realistic, it just adds a "gee-whiz" factor to the sound. A properly recorded DVD-A of a live concert would only have audience sounds beside and behind me, with a barely noticable ambience reflection of the music added in. You won't have the piano coming from the right front channel, the guitar coming from the left rear channel, the bass coming from the left front channel, and the drums coming from the right rear channel. That is not a realistic concert experience unless you are actually one of the members of the band. For realism, the music should be coming from in front of you with only a small amount of ambience coming from behind.

Multi-channel audio works well for movies, though. There's a lot of stuff going on in movies where sounds could be coming from behind you or to your sides. That adds excellent realism to a movie, but that doesn't translate over to music well.

So, the majority of what you are going to get from DVD-A is re-mixed multi-channel audio that sounds cool, but not aiming for realism. Very realistic sound can come from just 2 speakers without the need for other channels. If the recording industry was aiming for more realistic sound with muliple channels, the differences would be so minor that most folks wouldn't notice a significant difference. That doesn't sell a product.

That means that the recording industry will want to remix the sound so that it sounds different, which doesn't equate to better. It's a technology that doesn't have a definite need. And that's why I predict that DVD-A will soon die off as a format, just like quadrophonic did years ago.

svtmike

Hi GotJazz,

Stereo channels can be used to reproduce a sound stage, and yes speaker position and listener position etc. all play into that. But a claim that the only (or even primary) purpose of stereo is to reproduce a live soundstage so that the listener can locate instruments is in my opinion a pretty limited view. That may have been the original intent but even in the '60s rock bands and producers were taking the use of the two channels way beyond that application.

Just because live musicians generally can't move around you, and generally are placed in front of you during a performance, doesn't mean the music can't move around you and be placed in places other than in front of your face. And to dismiss such effects as "gimmicks" and "gee whiz" is to dismiss the creative use of one of the very best musical instrument developments of our time, the multichannel mixing board. There is some very good music being made and mixed by talented people onto DVD-A in a way that in my view (and my emotional response to the music) does very much enhance the music. To add dynamic positioning to the dynamic timing and dynamic tone dimensions to music is difficult to pull off well.

If DVD-A's 5.1 capabilities were used in my car only to make damn sure that I could tell the piano, if used in a live performance of the song, would be located over my glove box I would agree the format is dead - most people accept (and expect) more creative uses of the available channels than the strict "stereophonic" view that you are advancing here.

Mike

oblio98

GotJazz,

You are really off base. If you cannot hear the difference between a 24bit recording and a 16 bit recording, than you are listening on poor equipment.

Also, not all DVD-A discs have surround tracks. For a true A/B comparison, purchase the Neil Young "On the Beach" CD, and also the Neil Young STEREO ONLY DVD-A of "On the Beach". There are also a few other NY titles that are stereo only. This is because NY thinks that the CD format sucks, and that the only way to get true audio quality is via LP or high resolution DVD. This is a well documented fact.

Listen in a critical environment to the guitars and minute details of the sound. Even my wife can tell the difference (I know, that's an old argument).

Just because you cannot discern a difference does not mean there is not one.

oblio98

Wow. Big post, with a lot of problems. First off, this statement is 100% wrong. While mixing and mastering can affect the way music can be presented, offering a higher bit rate gives more sound information to the listener. If you cannot hear the difference between a 24bit source and a 16bit source, then the equipment you are using for playback is probably at fault.

While it is true that most DVD-A discs have surround tracks on them, there are quite a few that are stereo only. The last series of Neil Young DVD-A were stereo only. This includes "On the Beach", "American Stars and Bars', "Hawks & Doves", and "Reactor". Besides, you can change the "group" on playback and listen to the stereo tracks on most DVD-A's.

Purchase the CD and DVD-A of "On the Beach". Listen carefully to both. If your reproduction equipment is worthy, you should hear a difference. You should even hear a difference in the TL.

Here you are 100% correct. A properly recorded stereo recording can have great imaging, and you would be able to pinpoint the location of certain instruments and sounds in the soundfield. You would have to have an excellent listening environment, and good playback equipment.

The "stereo" experience in the car is truely different than in a home. Sounds coming from your feet, from the dash, from behind the headrests - UGH! This does not create a precise soundfield, only a wall of sound, as you say. Especially in stereo, as the two channel sound comes from multiple locations in the car - front, back, doors, etc.

First off, Quadraphonics failed not because of a lack of desire. The problem with Quad was that there were 3 competing LP formats, and playback was complicated. The early decoders were horrible for SQ and QS, and CD-4, which was the only true discrete LP format required a special turntable and cartridge. The best quad performance was obtained from quad reels and the lowly quad 8 track tape. Many of the desirable titles were not available in the format that one preferred (much like SACD/DVD-A today), so people got frustrated. It is a historical fact that the multiple formats was the problem, a problem that keep rearing its ugly head. VHS vs Beta, SACD vs DVD-A, Blue Ray HD DVD vs HD-DVD. Everyone wants a piece of the action. The only format that came out in the last 30 years that was done correctly was the CD!

As for the other part of your paragraph above, there is nothing that says music must come from in front of you. If you are at a concert, that may be true. But music, as recorded in a studio, has no limits. If you are in a room, and the drumset is on your right towards the back, that is where your ear will hear it. By having 4 or 5 speakers, or sound portals, to allow the music to be spread out and breath, you hear a more acurate reproduction of the actual sound, without having each sound step over one another. In the car, this works great, because as you pointed out earlier, the soundfield of the car is fairly poor. Splitting the music and dividing it up between speakers give a stronger soundfield than having stereo coming from the front and from behind you.

Again, you need to move away from the "live stage" mindset. Music does not have to come from in front of you. You can hear sounds in 360 degrees. Why not use that advantage.


Very realistic sound can come from 1 speaker, 2 speakers, or many speakers. Why do all cars have speakers in the back - even though they only have stereo? People want sound from as many portals as possible. Since those portals are already there, why not use them properly, instead of as repeaters?

It is easy to predict failure. It is hard to predict success. DVD-A and SACD have problems that have nothing to do with the remixing of sound. They suffer from poor marketing, greedy publishers, and bottom lines of corporations. One of the biggest complaints we hear here are that there are not enough DVD-A titles out there to buy. If they make them, people will buy them....but first they have to be available, and in the stores. This is a major problem, and is why it is easy to predict failure.

DVD-A and SACD may have already failed...........in their attempt to replace the CD. However, the technology, and the use of 5.1 and more for music reproduction will not fail. The newer HD DVD technologies will emerge, and one of the features included in these discs is the MLP lossless DVD-A audio technology.

One last thing. Just because the TL can play a DVD-Audio disc does not mean that you have to!

Jon Urban
www.quadraphonicquad.com

gt1

Brainwashed by RIAA

Mindworm

Jon Urban of www.quadraphonicquad.com, that was by far the best post I have read on how to sum up my DVD-A feelings. My friend is a huuuuge audiophile, and has the "live stage" mentality. Removing that barrier to thought - feeling like you have to be a receipient rather than an active participant almost "on" the stage - is the biggest thing I could come up with.

Anyway, great post....