HiTEC

I posted this a while back and nobody responded. Has anyone questioned Acura and gotten an answer on if they are going to issue an patches for DST and when/how?

lembowski

iTrader: (1)

those of us with navi, isn't the time updated by the navi? it shouldn't be such a big deal.

AMIC

I think the initial question was whether the navi software was just pulling GMT time from the satellites and the software would do the proper timezone/DST adjustments. But I don't recall having to enter my timezone in the setup anywhere so maybe it actually pulls the correct time.

HiTEC

GPS sends the car GMT time and the Navi system gives you actual time based on your location. If you are not aware the daylight savings times were changed and will change this spring 3 weeks earlier. Since these new dst changes law was just passed, software makers could not anticipate this in their code. DST used to happen on the second Sunday of April and the last Sunday in October. So since the times have changes their old codings will not apply.

With that said I anticipate that on March 11 (the new dst date) my clock will not automatically change (how is has in past years) and I will have incorrect time until April 8. I know I can override the time, but that kind of defeats the purpose of all of the automatic stuff

datmrman

I work in the IT industry and this issue has been a hot topic the last couple of months.

I never really thought about how it would affect our cars. My computers use NTP (network time protocol) to synchronize the system clock. As long as the NTP server is ready for the DST changes, everything should just work for me. Hopefully this will not be a huge issue for us and the time aspect is similarly handled on the GPS end.

HiTEC

I don't know if I totally agree. At least on Linux the hardware clock is always set to GMT time, and depending on where you select you location is how the offset is managed to determine your local time. I manage several NTP servers as well, and they don't send people their individualized times, they just send GMT and all the offsets are managed on the local machine. Like my machine takes GMT time and does a -5 and provides my local time. GPS is much the same and the GPS receiver does not communicate back to the satellite network you location and the satellites don't send you an individualized time. You get GMT, and everybody gets GMT all offsets are managed locally. The trick is all the offset code was all coded to change for DST on the 2nd Sunday in April and the last Sunday in October. That has all changed, so all existing DST code is essentially broke.

Edit: Technically the standard time is UTC time, which is not exactly the same as GMT (but very close). In short GPS and NTP time is UTC and all offsets are done locally.

HiTEC

Don't misunderstand my post... I'm not one of those guys that is trying to prove that he knows more... just NTP servers are one of those things that I'm very familiar with. There is a really good FAQ on ntp.org's web site.

mike03a3

Actually, the law was passed in August of 2005, so the software makers were given a year and a half headstart.

As many others have said, GPS systems run on UTC, so it's up to our car to convert it to local time based on location. I have a Garmin in addition to my TL-S, so I'm curious to see how this will turn out. My computers all have been updated to convert the UTC time they get via NTP properly, so hopefully everything will just switch over for me. I'm cautiously optimistic this will largely be another non-event like the Y2K crisis.

If you have a wintel box, you can get an update from Micro$oft:

Daylight Savings Time Changes

datmrman

It's all good. After I made my post, I rethought about what you said. It makes a lot of sense. Thanks for the clarification.

HiTEC

I encounter lots of people in my job there are know-it-alls always out to prove to everybody that they know everything. I've been doing my job too long to act like that. I'm sure you know folks I'm talking about. NTP is something I'm very familiar with, but I'm sure if I was sitting in your desk I'd be a drooling fool. I just didn't want to give the wrong impression.

HiTEC

I don't think most software companies starting thinking about this until 3 months ago. What a mess! If you use Java make sure you're JVM is up-to-date as well. I'll say it again... what a mess!!!!

evantec

Maybe they'll undo the DST change in a year or two, like they did in the 1970's because it'll be too dark in the morning for the schoolkids walking in the morning without getting hit by a car. Then again, everybody drives their kids these days...

Personally, I naively hoped that the GPS satellites would beam down the correct time to each of the NAVIs... but all they can do is beam out UTC pulses (which have no timezone in them).

It really has to to be firmware in the NAVIs which figures out the timezone based on the location, and then calculates the local time based on the appropriate offset for the timezone. So if that firmware isn't hardcoded for DST to start on Mar 11, you may be stuck.

The only hope (short of ripping out the NAVI system) is that the clock logic is in software, which could be upgraded via a DVD patch, or in firmware could be flashed via a CD. But the clock is normally such a key part of things, it may not easy to just replace it.

Maybe the website for the OEM who produces the NAVI system has more info.

Just this morning a ran a patch on my Win2K PC at work to do the upgrade.

evantec

If Acura were like Microsoft, they'd tell us we needed to upgrade to the 4G TL for the latest enhancements.

HiTEC

I bet the majority of us will have clocks that are an hour off for three weeks (twice a year). Acura is probably not even aware of it I bet. I was hoping there was be an article in the February Service Letter that just came out, but there was nuttin

Adobeman

Makes sense when you describe it that way.

I was just talking at work today about how much the DST change has seemed to creep up on businesses. It seems like congress probably had no clue about what the ripple effect would be. Between what needs patching and what doesn't people at work are getting freaked out. We are finding that all the various s/w vendors have published plenty but it is surprising where issues are arising.

I just remembered today that I need to patch my ReplayTV (1st gen DVR, circa 2000) .....grrrr.

AMIC

The whole freakout this week seems a little odd to me. Some people are acting like they just found out about this. This law was passed in 2005. I can't believe it took SW companies almost 2 years to figure out that they needed to do something about it. People here at my office are absolutely going crazy right now trying to get everything patched. I'm really surprised that we were not on top of this. Being a network engineer, I had all my systems patched months ago. Now we have a crap load of software that other IT people here are scrambling to get patched this weekend. In some instances the patches have been out for a while.

I understand that everyday users may not have realized, but SW vendors and IT departments should have been taking this a little bit more seriously a while ago.

Adobeman

Very true. Where I am there has been attention on it for several months and systems were getting patched. Even with that the "freak out" is now happening as people get worried they missed something. I still hear some people simply dismissing things with "oh, <system X> will be OK since it gets its time from the server....." Luckily the server admins, DBAs and desktop guys knew better.

ttribe

Or, you could just be in Arizona where we don't change our clocks for DST so it doesn't matter

evantec

I think I might have overreactted the other day about getting the NAVI system to deal with the DST changes.


There's a work-around you can do to (temporarily) tell the system to ignore the default settings for DST.

1) Press the SETUP button on the left, below the NAVI screen.

2) Press (4) at the top right to get to the 4th SETUP screen

3) Next to Adjust, press the button marked Time Zone / Clock.

4) You'll see the clock-adjustment screen with these settings:

Clock Adjustment (time appears, e.g. 21:30)

Auto Daylight Savings Time (ON) / OFF

Auto Time Zone by GPS (ON) / OFF

Time Adjustment Hour (+) (-)
Minute (+) (-)

RESET



So it looks like it's a matter of changing Auto Daylight Savings Time to be (OFF), and possibly altering the other settings (e.g. Auto Time Zone by GPS and/or adjusting the Hour).

You only need to keep the "patched" settings from March 11th (the new start of DST) until whenever DST would have otherwise started according to the NAVI system (March 25 or April 1st).

Then, on that day in late March / early April, you can go back to the default settings because the NAVI system will be in sync with the actual DST rules.

So no need to go out and nag anyone for a new DVD, firmware etc.


Not that I wouldn't mind if someone in AZ could write a patch!

mike03a3

If Acura were like Microsoft:

1. You'd have to pull off the road, shutdown and then restart the car at random intervals.

2. You'd have to buy a new key every year.

3. You'd have to replace the dashboard every two or three years because they would no longer support the old one. The new one would have a completely different user interface than the previous one.

Will Y.

I can't believe it took 19 posts before one of you mentioned the manual mode for setting the clock!
I like to set the clock a couple or three minutes ahead and use the manual time set mode on the TL and my cell phone a couple times a year.

HiTEC

I knew there was a way to override it, but that wasn't really my question. My question was, is Acura aware of it, and what are they going to do about it? My expectation is that Acura is not even aware of it, and won't be until they start getting calls next week as to why peoples clocks are an hour off. Remember doing the override is no problem for most of us on this forum, but the rest of the Acura owners could probably not even tie their own shoes when it comes to some electronic in their car.

evantec

Yeah, but at least they'll have a head-start on Monday, because the people calling will be an hour behind!

HiTEC

Good point! haha!

I actually got an email from my dealer yesterday. It looks like it went out to all their customers that they have email addreses for. It says that basically on 3/11 your clock is going to be messed. It tells you how to turn off auto dst and how to manually adjust clock by one hour.

I would imagine anyone that can check email would be able to follow their instructions, but maybe I'm pushing it there??? I'd still like to know when or how Acura plans to fix (long term). I bet something will be in next months monthly dealer service letter.

1995hoo

The error in the fall would only be for a single week. Daylight saving time will end on the first Sunday in November (one week later than it has in the past).

clsdave

But there would be a new patch whenever a new rattle was discovered. Or at least the option to change the type of noise to your preference!

Staggerwing

The Navi System was not coded to update for the new time change dates. Here I sit on the East Coast, and my clock will not update. Still shows me an hour behind. Maybe I'm actually driving Marty McFly's time travelling Delorian...hummm...

Apparently the forum boards need to have their offset updated as well.

chfields

I just checked and my Navi didn't change, so I just went in and bumped it up an hour....

Attorney

So that in three weeks, we'll all need to bump it back an hour...

Beautiful...

Hopefully by the next time I take the TL in for service, they will have an update available to keep this mess from happening in the future.

jonathan.chance

yeah, what he said

Opti

Not if you turn off the "automatic DST" function

batmacura

This is kind of embarrassing actually. My co-worker with an Escalade brought his vehicle in to the dealer in December for a firmware update to address the DST issue. I don't think there was a single mention of the DST issue on any Honda/Acura website.

That's 2 for GM 0 for Acura (the other embarrassment is the NAVI think that my home is several houses down the street and on the other side)

TLTrance

And of course, as expected, all of our clocks are off by an hour today... It strikes me as odd that if its updated via GPS, then does that mean the GPS is off? Seems a bit strange that the main "timekeeper" would be off... Easier to update one big thing than hundreds of thousands of cars...

jonathan.chance

Sats, both navigation and otherwise, run on Greenwich Mean Time so that the time is standardized. For lower end or personal navigation systems it's up to the individual user of a Navi system to select their timezone offset. With our Acura systems the time change parameters are pre-programmed; but, we as users can turn that feature off and manually make the change. I'm just glad that we have the "manual" option or we'd be screwed.

HiTEC

This was already discussed earlier in the thread. You're car doesn't talk back to the GPS satellites so it can deliver you personilized time. It send the same time to everybody on the whole planet, it's up to the GPS or navigation system to do the proper offset calculation based on location & time zone.

HiTEC

I did not go look at a calendar before my post because that really wasn't the point I was trying to get across, but I guess you got me.

tgl

As already mentioned, the GPS satellites provide only UTC time info; converting that to local time is the responsibility of the receiver. In this case, since the Acura nav system runs on Windows CE, it seems like a pretty sure bet that CE is doing the conversion.
I did a little googling and found some pages about fixing CE's registry for the new DST laws, for instance http://support.microsoft.com/kb/923027 ... anyone want to see if they can apply that to their nav disk?
Personally I'm feeling like it's not worth the trouble compared to manually adjusting the clock for the next three weeks ... but there sure as heck had better be a fix in the next nav disk update.

mlody

My discovery channel weather clock is set to acquire time via GPS satellite and today in the morning I noticed that it actually showed the correct time. Having the GPS navigation in my car, I would assume the same, but unfortunately this was not the case.

TerminaderTL

I was certainly embarrassed that my $35K+ 2005 auto was not able to adjust the time appropriately. I understand the technical issues. I don't understand the lack of a fix or communication of the manual workaround in advance by Acura - unexcusable!

datmrman

I checked this morning and all computers using NTP (network time) displayed the correct time.

As reported, the TL was off but easily remedied with a few clicks in the setup menu.


edit:
Sorry again. The main thread now is this one (since it has the latest news from Honda/Acura) : DST Issue Service News Article from HONDA