Details on the stock TL amp
09-23-2004, 06:32 PM
#44
Low level signal
Hi guys,
my system is still a work in progress, but I can tell you that my installer dug into the head unit and found a clean one-volt signal prior to any processing.
In my system, we take that 1 volt to a Zapco SX-SL which and boost it to 3 volts under the dash (actually just below my knees where I can make adjustments by feel.
My amps for my DLS 3-ways will be two Xapco Studio 300X's for midbass and mid-dome and then A Zapco Studio 100 for the tweets. sub is ona 300X also.
Working on the 4-way crossover thing and some alternator noise. In a couple of weeks, we should be there.
my system is still a work in progress, but I can tell you that my installer dug into the head unit and found a clean one-volt signal prior to any processing.
In my system, we take that 1 volt to a Zapco SX-SL which and boost it to 3 volts under the dash (actually just below my knees where I can make adjustments by feel.
My amps for my DLS 3-ways will be two Xapco Studio 300X's for midbass and mid-dome and then A Zapco Studio 100 for the tweets. sub is ona 300X also.
Working on the 4-way crossover thing and some alternator noise. In a couple of weeks, we should be there.
11-13-2004, 11:03 AM
#46
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Originally Posted by 999999
Hi guys,
my system is still a work in progress, but I can tell you that my installer dug into the head unit and found a clean one-volt signal prior to any processing.
In my system, we take that 1 volt to a Zapco SX-SL which and boost it to 3 volts under the dash (actually just below my knees where I can make adjustments by feel.
My amps for my DLS 3-ways will be two Xapco Studio 300X's for midbass and mid-dome and then A Zapco Studio 100 for the tweets. sub is ona 300X also.
Working on the 4-way crossover thing and some alternator noise. In a couple of weeks, we should be there.
my system is still a work in progress, but I can tell you that my installer dug into the head unit and found a clean one-volt signal prior to any processing.
In my system, we take that 1 volt to a Zapco SX-SL which and boost it to 3 volts under the dash (actually just below my knees where I can make adjustments by feel.
My amps for my DLS 3-ways will be two Xapco Studio 300X's for midbass and mid-dome and then A Zapco Studio 100 for the tweets. sub is ona 300X also.
Working on the 4-way crossover thing and some alternator noise. In a couple of weeks, we should be there.
I am assuming that you are confident that this signal is NOT a balanced differential, but a single-ended (standard preamp output). I am curious because according to the wiring diagram, the signal lacks the extra shield used in the TSX for their single-ended output, which implies they are VERY confident in noise rejection (such as a balanced line would have).
Did he test with an oscope or a DMM?
11-13-2004, 12:52 PM
#47
Team Owner
Originally Posted by sixspdbrd
Does someone have these pics still??? THey are X's for me! thanks!
Mike
11-18-2004, 12:49 AM
#48
Racer
So the install on my 04 TL is almost complete with one minor glitch. I had the factory amp removed and line drivers added going to a DQS / JL Audio / MB Quart setup. The system sounds awesome but the shop doing the install says they're not reading anything when they meter the red/yellow remote turn-on lead off the 20 pin black factory amp connector in the front passenger kick panel. So for now they've wired the remote turn-on to ignition which causes a slight pop when the ignition is turned on (yes it's annoying).
Has anyone else successfully used the red/yellow remote turn-on lead or ran into similar issues? Of course we all know it *should* work per the wiring diagram, but my installer is running into this issue.
My initial thoughs are:
1) the lead might have been accidentally cut further towards the head unit as part of some other work and we could isolate the problem by checking the remote turn-on lead directly from the HU (don't really want to rip apart the dash though if it can be avoided)
or
2) the red/yellow remote turn-on lead just doesn't work on the 04 TL and I'm going to have to live with the pop or add a delay relay for remote-turn on
Thoughts?
Has anyone else successfully used the red/yellow remote turn-on lead or ran into similar issues? Of course we all know it *should* work per the wiring diagram, but my installer is running into this issue.
My initial thoughs are:
1) the lead might have been accidentally cut further towards the head unit as part of some other work and we could isolate the problem by checking the remote turn-on lead directly from the HU (don't really want to rip apart the dash though if it can be avoided)
or
2) the red/yellow remote turn-on lead just doesn't work on the 04 TL and I'm going to have to live with the pop or add a delay relay for remote-turn on
Thoughts?
11-18-2004, 10:26 PM
#49
Instructor
Thread Starter
How many amps did they try to connect to the turnon wire? Or how many amps do you have in your system. I guess I am kind of wondering if the output got overloaded and died.
I didn't actually check the voltage out when I had everything apart so I can't verify it for you.
I didn't actually check the voltage out when I had everything apart so I can't verify it for you.
11-19-2004, 12:03 PM
#51
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Are your stock amps and speakers for sale.
I am interested in buying the stock amps, speakers and any original harness between all of it. Let me know if you are wanting to sell it.
THanks,
Jay
THanks,
Jay
11-20-2004, 12:25 PM
#54
Racer
Originally Posted by spyfish007
How many amps did they try to connect to the turnon wire? Or how many amps do you have in your system. I guess I am kind of wondering if the output got overloaded and died.
I didn't actually check the voltage out when I had everything apart so I can't verify it for you.
I didn't actually check the voltage out when I had everything apart so I can't verify it for you.
Originally Posted by chusteveb
It is a low voltage wire, so you will need a remote power adapter (low volt remote turn-on) to get a good remote turn on for your amps.
chusteveb: Have you measured the remote turn on in the 04 TL at the factory amp location and/or used it for remote turn on with aftermarket amps in combination with low volt remote turn on? What were your findings? What parts have you successfully used for low volt remote turn on?
11-20-2004, 12:27 PM
#55
Racer
Originally Posted by jaywow
I am interested in buying the stock amps, speakers and any original harness between all of it. Let me know if you are wanting to sell it.
THanks,
Jay
THanks,
Jay
11-20-2004, 12:39 PM
#56
Racer
chusteveb,
So you'd suggest using something like the following product?
http://www.logjamelectronics.com/pie1vt.html
The PIE 1VT Low Voltage Trigger generates a 12 volt output with less than 1 volt input creating an external amplifier trigger when your headunit's trigger signal is too low or your headunit does not have an amplifier remote trigger. The 1VT is rated at 2.5 amps maximum current, eliminating the bothersome pop and clicks associated with high current draw mechanical relays.
So you'd suggest using something like the following product?
http://www.logjamelectronics.com/pie1vt.html
The PIE 1VT Low Voltage Trigger generates a 12 volt output with less than 1 volt input creating an external amplifier trigger when your headunit's trigger signal is too low or your headunit does not have an amplifier remote trigger. The 1VT is rated at 2.5 amps maximum current, eliminating the bothersome pop and clicks associated with high current draw mechanical relays.
11-20-2004, 02:45 PM
#57
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Switching to another topic, I just bought the comptech supercharger brand new and I need to get rid of it. a friend of mine told me he could fabricate me a custom exhaust for a turbo. anyways I'm tryin to sell it for $3800 whoever buys it would have to pay for the shipping. email me if you're interested: Pimping_Rides@Hotmail.com
11-21-2004, 12:27 AM
#59
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Originally Posted by spyfish007
Well if you are looking for a good two amp solution, how about the following:
2 amps - 4 channels each
-------
50 to 75 W RMS each channel amp #1
75X2 -> fronts (mid & tweeter) bridged* 200X1 or 300X1 -> sub
* some amps 3x or 4x when bridged
25 W RMS each channel amp #2
25X2 -> rears bridged 50X1 -> center
2 amps - 4 channels each
-------
50 to 75 W RMS each channel amp #1
75X2 -> fronts (mid & tweeter) bridged* 200X1 or 300X1 -> sub
* some amps 3x or 4x when bridged
25 W RMS each channel amp #2
25X2 -> rears bridged 50X1 -> center
how much power can the stock speakers take? would it be worth while to upgrade them as well? maybe using more efficient speakers? also being that the front mid and tweeter are driven on a single out put on the head unit, what filters the power between the mid and highs?
again novice but trying to leard
11-21-2004, 05:48 PM
#60
Phoenix Gold makes 5.1 channel car amps. Here is their latest one with DD and Pro Logic decoding:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOR51MT
It's only 50x5 + 100x1 RMS, but that's still better than stock.
They also have this older amp with 50x7 RMS. You can bridge the last two channels for 200x1 RMS into 4 ohms. This amp is 1 ohm stable.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTI9007AL
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOR51MT
It's only 50x5 + 100x1 RMS, but that's still better than stock.
They also have this older amp with 50x7 RMS. You can bridge the last two channels for 200x1 RMS into 4 ohms. This amp is 1 ohm stable.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTI9007AL
11-22-2004, 08:10 PM
#61
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Originally Posted by MasterShake
Phoenix Gold makes 5.1 channel car amps. Here is their latest one with DD and Pro Logic decoding:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOR51MT
It's only 50x5 + 100x1 RMS, but that's still better than stock.
They also have this older amp with 50x7 RMS. You can bridge the last two channels for 200x1 RMS into 4 ohms. This amp is 1 ohm stable.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTI9007AL
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOR51MT
It's only 50x5 + 100x1 RMS, but that's still better than stock.
They also have this older amp with 50x7 RMS. You can bridge the last two channels for 200x1 RMS into 4 ohms. This amp is 1 ohm stable.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTI9007AL
11-23-2004, 12:44 AM
#62
Instructor
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by ONAGER
please bare with me as im a little slow when it comes to all of this audio talk (i am after all, a slow white boy). this 2 amp setup, is this wired before or after the stock amp? if before, will it affect any of the navi or car in any way? also do you leave the stock amp in the car or do use by-pass it all the way? if after the stock amp, is the distortion still present in the signal? would amplifing the "bad" signal make it worse?
how much power can the stock speakers take? would it be worth while to upgrade them as well? maybe using more efficient speakers? also being that the front mid and tweeter are driven on a single out put on the head unit, what filters the power between the mid and highs?
again novice but trying to leard
how much power can the stock speakers take? would it be worth while to upgrade them as well? maybe using more efficient speakers? also being that the front mid and tweeter are driven on a single out put on the head unit, what filters the power between the mid and highs?
again novice but trying to leard
Most factory speakers can handle about 40W RMS (maybe 50W) from a good clean amp. In addition you will need an electronic x-over to keep the bass out and keep the factory speakers running good. Nothing other than a single cap filters the mids and highs. The cap creates a 6db/octive filter for the tweeter. The mid driver rolls off naturally with a 6db/octive slope. It is a simplistic setup that is difficult to really mess up. Higher order filters (more db/octave) are more difficult to setup and to have sound good in the car.
11-23-2004, 12:47 AM
#63
Instructor
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MasterShake
Phoenix Gold makes 5.1 channel car amps. Here is their latest one with DD and Pro Logic decoding:
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOR51MT
It's only 50x5 + 100x1 RMS, but that's still better than stock.
They also have this older amp with 50x7 RMS. You can bridge the last two channels for 200x1 RMS into 4 ohms. This amp is 1 ohm stable.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTI9007AL
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOR51MT
It's only 50x5 + 100x1 RMS, but that's still better than stock.
They also have this older amp with 50x7 RMS. You can bridge the last two channels for 200x1 RMS into 4 ohms. This amp is 1 ohm stable.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTI9007AL
11-23-2004, 01:39 AM
#64
Originally Posted by spyfish007
I've said it before and I'll say it again. You don't want to use the 5.1MT amp. It has a minimum number of inputs and can't handle all 6 of the TLs inputs. This is a step backwards. The 900.7Ti is the amp to use. You can 400W RMS into your sub/subs and 50W RMS x 5 on your highs. If you want to bridge the front/rear you can drive 200W x 2 + 50W x 1. This is a very clean verstile amp. Well worth every penny.
11-23-2004, 07:31 PM
#65
Instructor
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by MasterShake
I understand that the 5.1MT amp doesn't have all the inputs for DVD-A, but I don't even use the DVD-A. I presonally don't see the need for surround sound music. I suggest that amp for use with aftermarket DVD players or carPCs.
02-01-2007, 01:28 AM
#66
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Hey anyone please help i was wondering if someone could help me out a lil bit on this 07 tl type-s? Im having a problem with the vibration coming through the sub and speakers. I already diconnected the 2 mics. Another thing is im hooking up this jl clean sweep but im not getting signal through my fronts. Think anyone can guide me through this. Thanks nick
Originally Posted by spyfish007
You ask and you shall receive ....
@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel in the 20 pin Black & White connector
RF+ Black
RF- Gray
LF+ Green
LF- Blue
C+ Brown
C- Greeen w/White
RR+ Orange
RR- Red
LR+ White
LR- Yellow
SW+ Red w/Blue
SW- White w/Green
Remote Turn-on -> Red w/Yellow
Amp Mute -> Yellow w/Green
@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel in the 20 pin Black & White connector
RF+ Black
RF- Gray
LF+ Green
LF- Blue
C+ Brown
C- Greeen w/White
RR+ Orange
RR- Red
LR+ White
LR- Yellow
SW+ Red w/Blue
SW- White w/Green
Remote Turn-on -> Red w/Yellow
Amp Mute -> Yellow w/Green
02-01-2007, 07:44 AM
#67
Originally Posted by spyfish007
In addition ....
@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel with the 14 pin gray connector contains the speaker outputs if you want to utilize the factory wiring.
RF+ Blue
RF- Red
LF+ Light Green
LF- Purple
C+ Green w/White
C- Blue w/Yellow
RR+ Red w/Blue
RR- Yellow
LR+ Brown w/White
LR- Red w/Yellow
SW+ Yellow w/Black
SW- Light Green w/Red
Ground -> Black
+12V -> White
@ the Stereo Amplifier in the passenger kick panel with the 14 pin gray connector contains the speaker outputs if you want to utilize the factory wiring.
RF+ Blue
RF- Red
LF+ Light Green
LF- Purple
C+ Green w/White
C- Blue w/Yellow
RR+ Red w/Blue
RR- Yellow
LR+ Brown w/White
LR- Red w/Yellow
SW+ Yellow w/Black
SW- Light Green w/Red
Ground -> Black
+12V -> White
I believe that with the clean sweep you'll need the signals after the amp to get better results... I personally never used the cleansweep, but if you do a search they've talks about the cleansweep to death... I personally used the RF 3sixty for my install... there's nothing like adjusting anything wirelessly...
04-05-2007, 03:41 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by ONAGER
that older amp is flat out awsome.... would this be a fairly simple plug and play issue? just cut all the wires going to the stock amp and send them to the new one then out to the speakers? this looks like it would take care of it all... or is that just too simple and i have it all wrong?
04-05-2007, 04:27 PM
#69
Advanced
I have an 05 TL Navi.
I run the stock center channel thru the stock amp to the stock center speaker as is.
I cut the wires coming out of the stock amp for the front and rear and sent them to a four channel amp under the driver's seat via a Navone high/low converter.
The output from the stock amp for the sub goes to the sub amp attached to the 10" sub box in the trunk again thru a high/low converter. The stock sub speaker is in place but disconnected.
I used JL Audio amp and Diamond Audio speakers. Excellent sound and I have all of my trunk if I take out the sub. I used DeathToToaster's DIY as a guide https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/questions-adding-sub-amp-120614/
Hope this helps
I run the stock center channel thru the stock amp to the stock center speaker as is.
I cut the wires coming out of the stock amp for the front and rear and sent them to a four channel amp under the driver's seat via a Navone high/low converter.
The output from the stock amp for the sub goes to the sub amp attached to the 10" sub box in the trunk again thru a high/low converter. The stock sub speaker is in place but disconnected.
I used JL Audio amp and Diamond Audio speakers. Excellent sound and I have all of my trunk if I take out the sub. I used DeathToToaster's DIY as a guide https://acurazine.com/forums/audio-video-electronics-navigation-22/questions-adding-sub-amp-120614/
Hope this helps
04-13-2007, 05:06 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by pdphill
spyfish007:
I really appreciate your analysis of this system. I had figured that the "225 watt" amp was 25 watts per channel for 5 channels and 100 watts for the sub. Since all this is out of a 6 channel amp measuring 5"X7.5", you know the factory amp must be crap. I really want to upgrade all speakers and use aftermarket amps. The sound from this factory unit is very nice, but at louder volumns, it can be fatiguing. What concerns me with an upgrade is that I will spend $1,500 on speakers and $1,000 on amps and not see much improvement, except in db's. I have listened to the leading speakers in the local car audio stores; Boston Acoustics, Diamond, Focal, JL Audio, MB Quartz, and have not been impressed. I've heard all kinds of excuses from the salesmen; "a car sounds better" (that's a reverse from 10 yrs. ago), "our sound room is not that great", "we only run these speakers off low-watt head units so you can get the "real" effect", and "my speakers must be wired out of phase". I realize that great sound is a very personal matter. However, I have some basic requirements. I need clear, loud vocals, which the TL has. I need a crisp sub, without the boom, and the TL system is a bit weak on sub. I DO NOT want to shake the car next to me, but I want to feel the bass. Finally, and most important, I want good transient response from the mid-bass speakers. I want to feel, as well as hear, the strings of an acoustic guitar, a grand piano and a snare drum, which the TL does decently. I have seen mediocre sound systems installed and tuned by pros that out performed "ultimate" systems installed by journeymen. I am concerned that the factory "mediocre" system, installed by pros will outperform any aftermarket system I install because the crossovers and speakers are "tuned" to this car.
I really appreciate your analysis of this system. I had figured that the "225 watt" amp was 25 watts per channel for 5 channels and 100 watts for the sub. Since all this is out of a 6 channel amp measuring 5"X7.5", you know the factory amp must be crap. I really want to upgrade all speakers and use aftermarket amps. The sound from this factory unit is very nice, but at louder volumns, it can be fatiguing. What concerns me with an upgrade is that I will spend $1,500 on speakers and $1,000 on amps and not see much improvement, except in db's. I have listened to the leading speakers in the local car audio stores; Boston Acoustics, Diamond, Focal, JL Audio, MB Quartz, and have not been impressed. I've heard all kinds of excuses from the salesmen; "a car sounds better" (that's a reverse from 10 yrs. ago), "our sound room is not that great", "we only run these speakers off low-watt head units so you can get the "real" effect", and "my speakers must be wired out of phase". I realize that great sound is a very personal matter. However, I have some basic requirements. I need clear, loud vocals, which the TL has. I need a crisp sub, without the boom, and the TL system is a bit weak on sub. I DO NOT want to shake the car next to me, but I want to feel the bass. Finally, and most important, I want good transient response from the mid-bass speakers. I want to feel, as well as hear, the strings of an acoustic guitar, a grand piano and a snare drum, which the TL does decently. I have seen mediocre sound systems installed and tuned by pros that out performed "ultimate" systems installed by journeymen. I am concerned that the factory "mediocre" system, installed by pros will outperform any aftermarket system I install because the crossovers and speakers are "tuned" to this car.
04-18-2007, 11:57 PM
#71
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Can anyone that is 100% certain verify which connector from the stock amp is the output signal. I am so confused reading two different great install by "Deathto Toasters" and "jptl04". According to jptl04 the output connector from the stock amp is the grey connector. So I understand it to be: Head unit then to the black connector, then to the stock amp to the grey connector leading to the speakers??? And then I read Deathto Toasters post on his install and he says it's the black connector on the stock amp is the output signal going to the speakers? So in turn (according to Deathto Toaster) I understand it to be: Head unit to the grey connector into the stock amp then to the output black connector leading to the speakers. Which is correct. Please someone that is 100% certain validate which is correct. Or just plainly put as which connector (grey or black) is the output coming from the stock amp leading to the speakers. Please Please help cause I am so ready to install my system this coming weekend. I have so far a 3sixty.2 and a 5.1 amplifier ready to be installed. Just really uncertain about the connectors on the stock amp since I am and will be taking the signal from the stock amp to my 3sixty.2 Thanks in advance to all.
04-22-2007, 12:31 PM
#74
Man of God.....
I have been looking for a thread like this!! OK, I think I have "The" answer for the sub problem. Take a look. http://https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=145417
Let me know what you think. It sounds very natural. Not bass heavy.
But I haven't even begun to look at the rest of the system. So I'll be lurking. Thanks for the input so far....
Let me know what you think. It sounds very natural. Not bass heavy.
But I haven't even begun to look at the rest of the system. So I'll be lurking. Thanks for the input so far....
04-23-2007, 01:25 AM
#75
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Grey connector wires goes to the speakers.
Here is the pinout from the electrical manual:
GREY connector in order from pin1-14 (SP=to speaker)
1-7 pins on top row.
LT GRN/RED: sub- SP
YEL / BLK: sub+ SP
RED/YEL: LR- SP
BRN/WHT: LR+ SP
RED/BLU: RR+ SP
LT GRN: LF+ SP and tweeter
BLU: RF+ SP and tweeter
BLU/YEL: Center- SP
GRN/WHT: Center+ SP
BLACK: ground
WHT: +12v fused.
YEL: RR- SP
PUR: LF- SP and tweeter
RED: RF- SP and tweeter
Here is the pinout from the electrical manual:
GREY connector in order from pin1-14 (SP=to speaker)
1-7 pins on top row.
LT GRN/RED: sub- SP
YEL / BLK: sub+ SP
RED/YEL: LR- SP
BRN/WHT: LR+ SP
RED/BLU: RR+ SP
LT GRN: LF+ SP and tweeter
BLU: RF+ SP and tweeter
BLU/YEL: Center- SP
GRN/WHT: Center+ SP
BLACK: ground
WHT: +12v fused.
YEL: RR- SP
PUR: LF- SP and tweeter
RED: RF- SP and tweeter
05-07-2008, 03:34 PM
#77
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im in the process of an install and picked up the LC8, it provides 8 speaker level inputs so you dont have to splice RCA's. The speaker wires from the factory amp feed right into the unit. then it is converted to RCA pre outs for amplifier hookups. Its awesome.
06-27-2008, 06:43 AM
#78
2008 NBP TL
Originally Posted by chusteveb
It is a low voltage wire, so you will need a remote power adapter (low volt remote turn-on) to get a good remote turn on for your amps.
2. After selecting one of these wires I suppose I am supposed to install a low voltage trigger to turn the aftermarket amps on and off? Can I just branch off of the low voltage wire from the amp without disconnecting?
07-22-2008, 02:33 AM
#80
2008 NBP TL
Originally Posted by pestrada1978
Tech14, did you get this figured out? if not let me know and i will help you out.