Any way to disable the data recorder on the 2004-2006 Tl's
#6
[QUOTE=lhallacy]Just curious...Big Brother thing really bugs me.[/QUOTE
I don't think that it can be disabled without taking the Air Bags circuits out and the seatbelt retractor circuits.
This is built into the SRS system to help the manufacturers against legal damages, hence the reason why it would only records the last few seconds before a crash.
It records, RPM, Speed, Air bags deployments and optionally, braking and impact forces.
Also, authorities can ask the courts for legal permissions to obtains data from that recorder so as to take legal actions against you should they feel it necessary.
Best regards
frenchnew
I don't think that it can be disabled without taking the Air Bags circuits out and the seatbelt retractor circuits.
This is built into the SRS system to help the manufacturers against legal damages, hence the reason why it would only records the last few seconds before a crash.
It records, RPM, Speed, Air bags deployments and optionally, braking and impact forces.
Also, authorities can ask the courts for legal permissions to obtains data from that recorder so as to take legal actions against you should they feel it necessary.
Best regards
frenchnew
#7
A friend of mine's father told me a story about some tool speeding around a residental area of Florida a couple years ago. I think he was doing 80+. Anyway a teenage girl tried to back out of her driveway and was killed. I believe there was also a passenger in her car that was also killed but, could be wrong.
Supposedly there was a legal battle over weather or not they could use the data recorder on his Corvette to figure out how fast he was going. Claimed he was going allot slower. Ofcoarse skid marks and stuff like that showed he was lying anyway.
Not sure how that all turned out though. If it hasn't been used yet I am sure some day it WILL be.
Supposedly there was a legal battle over weather or not they could use the data recorder on his Corvette to figure out how fast he was going. Claimed he was going allot slower. Ofcoarse skid marks and stuff like that showed he was lying anyway.
Not sure how that all turned out though. If it hasn't been used yet I am sure some day it WILL be.
Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
Yeah it records speed, RPMs, etc. right before a crash. But I don't think laws allow them to use anything like that against you now.
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#8
Ok different story but, shows they are using the data recorder already for legal maters.
http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/USNews...33?extID=10026
http://www.keepmedia.com/pubs/USNews...33?extID=10026
#10
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[QUOTE=frenchnew]
the last few seconds before a crash?? Let me get this straight.. so this knows when you are going to crash, times it and starts recording before the crash?? wow.. nice genius
Originally Posted by lhallacy
Just curious...Big Brother thing really bugs me.[/QUOTE
I don't think that it can be disabled without taking the Air Bags circuits out and the seatbelt retractor circuits.
This is built into the SRS system to help the manufacturers against legal damages, hence the reason why it would only records the last few seconds before a crash.
It records, RPM, Speed, Air bags deployments and optionally, braking and impact forces.
Also, authorities can ask the courts for legal permissions to obtains data from that recorder so as to take legal actions against you should they feel it necessary.
Best regards
frenchnew
I don't think that it can be disabled without taking the Air Bags circuits out and the seatbelt retractor circuits.
This is built into the SRS system to help the manufacturers against legal damages, hence the reason why it would only records the last few seconds before a crash.
It records, RPM, Speed, Air bags deployments and optionally, braking and impact forces.
Also, authorities can ask the courts for legal permissions to obtains data from that recorder so as to take legal actions against you should they feel it necessary.
Best regards
frenchnew
the last few seconds before a crash?? Let me get this straight.. so this knows when you are going to crash, times it and starts recording before the crash?? wow.. nice genius
#11
Here is some info I found regarding this topic, it was taken from CBC news (Canada). The link to the article can be found here: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/blackbox/
Here is what the article says:
Here is what the article says:
When two cars collide on an isolated road, there may be more witnesses present than just the drivers and passengers. Silent – and, in most cases, unknown – witnesses can lie within the cars themselves.
The same electronic sensor that triggers the deployment of a car's airbags can record and store information on a car's speed, whether the seatbelts are fastened, and whether the driver hit the brakes before a collision.
The device is known as an event data recorder (EDR), or simply a "black box," because it serves a similar function to a flight data recorder in an aircraft.
The information the black boxes record includes:
the car's speed;
the engine's speed;
whether the brakes are applied;
the position of the gas pedal.
It also records other information, such as whether the driver was wearing a seatbelt and the force of the collision.
Because the memory of the black box is limited, it only retains this information for a few seconds. After a collision, the black box contains a record of what was happening in the last seconds before the impact.
Black boxes in the courts
The EDR was originally intended as a diagnostic tool to determine what caused a car's air bag to activate, but now insurance agents and police can use a car's black box to reconstruct what happened before an accident.
Black boxes are installed in millions of cars across North America – most cars that have air bags – but most drivers don't even know they're there.
And there are no rules governing how information taken from black boxes can be used in Canada.
Ontario Provincial Police have used data from black boxes in court cases even without formal rules.
California is the only jurisdiction in North American with any rules on the use of black box information. In that state, the information can only be used with a car owner's consent or with a court order.
A court case in Quebec may influence how black box evidence is treated in Canada.
In April 2001, Eric Gauthier was driving his new Pontiac Sunfire in east end Montreal. His car collided with another and the driver of the other car, Yacine Zinet, died at the scene.
Gauthier told police that Zinet's car was speeding and ran a red light. No one else saw the accident.
However, the black box in Gauthier's car said it was Gauthier who was speeding, travelling at between 130 and 160 km/h when the speed limit was 50.
Gauthier was convicted of dangerous driving, but was cleared of the more serious charge of criminal negligence causing death.
He will be sentenced in March.
Privacy concerns
Defence lawyer and columnist Jordan Charness questions whether courts should be allowed to use black box information, especially when most people don't know the devices are there.
"You're taking something that wasn't designed to do this job and you're using it for a completely different application," said Charness.
Privacy experts are worried about how the black box information could be used.
"The prospect that we're all under constant scrutiny has social effects and legal effects that we haven't even contemplated," said Stephen Keating of the Privacy Foundation at the University of Denver.
The same electronic sensor that triggers the deployment of a car's airbags can record and store information on a car's speed, whether the seatbelts are fastened, and whether the driver hit the brakes before a collision.
The device is known as an event data recorder (EDR), or simply a "black box," because it serves a similar function to a flight data recorder in an aircraft.
The information the black boxes record includes:
the car's speed;
the engine's speed;
whether the brakes are applied;
the position of the gas pedal.
It also records other information, such as whether the driver was wearing a seatbelt and the force of the collision.
Because the memory of the black box is limited, it only retains this information for a few seconds. After a collision, the black box contains a record of what was happening in the last seconds before the impact.
Black boxes in the courts
The EDR was originally intended as a diagnostic tool to determine what caused a car's air bag to activate, but now insurance agents and police can use a car's black box to reconstruct what happened before an accident.
Black boxes are installed in millions of cars across North America – most cars that have air bags – but most drivers don't even know they're there.
And there are no rules governing how information taken from black boxes can be used in Canada.
Ontario Provincial Police have used data from black boxes in court cases even without formal rules.
California is the only jurisdiction in North American with any rules on the use of black box information. In that state, the information can only be used with a car owner's consent or with a court order.
A court case in Quebec may influence how black box evidence is treated in Canada.
In April 2001, Eric Gauthier was driving his new Pontiac Sunfire in east end Montreal. His car collided with another and the driver of the other car, Yacine Zinet, died at the scene.
Gauthier told police that Zinet's car was speeding and ran a red light. No one else saw the accident.
However, the black box in Gauthier's car said it was Gauthier who was speeding, travelling at between 130 and 160 km/h when the speed limit was 50.
Gauthier was convicted of dangerous driving, but was cleared of the more serious charge of criminal negligence causing death.
He will be sentenced in March.
Privacy concerns
Defence lawyer and columnist Jordan Charness questions whether courts should be allowed to use black box information, especially when most people don't know the devices are there.
"You're taking something that wasn't designed to do this job and you're using it for a completely different application," said Charness.
Privacy experts are worried about how the black box information could be used.
"The prospect that we're all under constant scrutiny has social effects and legal effects that we haven't even contemplated," said Stephen Keating of the Privacy Foundation at the University of Denver.
#12
No it records for 5 seconds or so all the time. Always overwritting itself. Unless you have a crash (maybe tied to airbag depolyment?). If it detects you have crashed it saves whats in memory. It is always recording. Usually not saving anything. It is unclear if the TL has this or not. I don't think it does but, not 100% sure.
Originally Posted by bklynpanman
the last few seconds before a crash?? Let me get this straight.. so this knows when you are going to crash, times it and starts recording before the crash?? wow.. nice genius
#14
I love cars!
Originally Posted by 03CoupeV6
Yeah it records speed, RPMs, etc. right before a crash. But I don't think laws allow them to use anything like that against you now.
OOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHH, yes they DO!! Your very own car can testify against you in court.
http://www.law.com/jsp/article.jsp?id=1105364095740
Car's Black Box Evidence Ruled Admissible
Andrew Harris
New York Law Journal
01-13-2005
Evidence gleaned from a car's "black box" -- a computer module that, among other things, records a vehicle's speed in the last five seconds before airbags deploy in a collision -- will be admissible in the New York trial of two men charged with second-degree murder.
The defendants, Kyle Soukup and Blake Slade, were involved in a fatal three-car accident while in a race on a Nassau County, N.Y., highway on a night in June 2002, authorities say.....
Also see http://www.expertlaw.com/library/acc...k_justice.html
Research before you post!
#15
I love cars!
Originally Posted by jcondon
No it records for 5 seconds or so all the time. Always overwritting itself. Unless you have a crash (maybe tied to airbag depolyment?). If it detects you have crashed it saves whats in memory. It is always recording. Usually not saving anything. It is unclear if the TL has this or not. I don't think it does but, not 100% sure.
#16
I love cars!
Speaking of Big Brother devices, users of the toll tag should be aware that it can be used as a speed enforcement device, noting the speed at which you pass through the toll lane:
>From: "Matt Murray" <mattm@optonline.net>
>
>All:
>
>I received this warning in the mail today. The GPS speed enforcement
>(like in the UK) is probably just around the corner. An FYI is that
>this particular toll has a speed limit of 20 mph. E-Z Pass is the
>system that has a transponder mounted in cars for automated toll
>collection (and speed enforcement, too!).
>
>It stated the following:
>
>Addressed to me (details unnecessary)
>
>"In applying for an E-ZPass account, you agreed to abide by the
>E-ZPass License Agreement Terms and Conditions. Among those provisions
>of the Agreement was that you must approach and pass through an
>"E-ZPass Only" lane at the posted speed limit and that failure to do
>so could result in the revocation of your E-ZPass Privileges.
>
>The Thruway Authority detected E-ZPass tag XXXXXXXXXXX (one of my
>tags) assigned to your account. passing through the E-ZPass toll lane
>referenced below in excess of the posted speed of 5 miles per hour.
>
>Tag ID / plaza / Lane / Date / Time / Speed
>xxxxxx 98 02N 11/08/99 12:48:07 33
>
>Please be advised that the next violation of the posted speed limit by
>any tag assigned to your account will result in the suspension of your
>E-ZPass account for 60 days. Additional violations could result in a
>longer suspension or revocation of your E-ZPass account. The safety of
>our toll collectors and the traveling public is critical to the
>Authority and to the success of the E-ZPass program.
>
>If you have any questions, please call 1-800-333-TOLL to speak with a
>Customer Service Representative.
>
>Violation Processing Center
>E-ZPass Customer Service Center"
>
>
>I suspect this concept will travel to the other states with these
>systems.
>Welcome Big Brother!
>
>To add insult to injury, I asked for any other info since the incident
>was four months ago. and they said they couldn't look up any
>information, because their computers had been down since 10 AM (this
>was at 5:30 PM). They offered to call me back when the system was up
>and running. I hope it wasn't the same computer tracking me. And
>please no lectures about speeding (I'm sure the system doesn't allow
>for the different tire size introduced by snow tires).
>
>BTW, NYSTA = New York State Thruway Authority.
>
>Matt Murray
>
>mattm@optonline.net
>
>From: "Matt Murray" <mattm@optonline.net>
>
>All:
>
>I received this warning in the mail today. The GPS speed enforcement
>(like in the UK) is probably just around the corner. An FYI is that
>this particular toll has a speed limit of 20 mph. E-Z Pass is the
>system that has a transponder mounted in cars for automated toll
>collection (and speed enforcement, too!).
>
>It stated the following:
>
>Addressed to me (details unnecessary)
>
>"In applying for an E-ZPass account, you agreed to abide by the
>E-ZPass License Agreement Terms and Conditions. Among those provisions
>of the Agreement was that you must approach and pass through an
>"E-ZPass Only" lane at the posted speed limit and that failure to do
>so could result in the revocation of your E-ZPass Privileges.
>
>The Thruway Authority detected E-ZPass tag XXXXXXXXXXX (one of my
>tags) assigned to your account. passing through the E-ZPass toll lane
>referenced below in excess of the posted speed of 5 miles per hour.
>
>Tag ID / plaza / Lane / Date / Time / Speed
>xxxxxx 98 02N 11/08/99 12:48:07 33
>
>Please be advised that the next violation of the posted speed limit by
>any tag assigned to your account will result in the suspension of your
>E-ZPass account for 60 days. Additional violations could result in a
>longer suspension or revocation of your E-ZPass account. The safety of
>our toll collectors and the traveling public is critical to the
>Authority and to the success of the E-ZPass program.
>
>If you have any questions, please call 1-800-333-TOLL to speak with a
>Customer Service Representative.
>
>Violation Processing Center
>E-ZPass Customer Service Center"
>
>
>I suspect this concept will travel to the other states with these
>systems.
>Welcome Big Brother!
>
>To add insult to injury, I asked for any other info since the incident
>was four months ago. and they said they couldn't look up any
>information, because their computers had been down since 10 AM (this
>was at 5:30 PM). They offered to call me back when the system was up
>and running. I hope it wasn't the same computer tracking me. And
>please no lectures about speeding (I'm sure the system doesn't allow
>for the different tire size introduced by snow tires).
>
>BTW, NYSTA = New York State Thruway Authority.
>
>Matt Murray
>
>mattm@optonline.net
>
#17
Horny.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Quad Cities
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Originally Posted by jcondon
A friend of mine's father told me a story about some tool speeding around a residental area of Florida a couple years ago. I think he was doing 80+. Anyway a teenage girl tried to back out of her driveway and was killed. I believe there was also a passenger in her car that was also killed but, could be wrong.
Supposedly there was a legal battle over weather or not they could use the data recorder on his Corvette to figure out how fast he was going. Claimed he was going allot slower. Ofcoarse skid marks and stuff like that showed he was lying anyway.
Not sure how that all turned out though. If it hasn't been used yet I am sure some day it WILL be.
Supposedly there was a legal battle over weather or not they could use the data recorder on his Corvette to figure out how fast he was going. Claimed he was going allot slower. Ofcoarse skid marks and stuff like that showed he was lying anyway.
Not sure how that all turned out though. If it hasn't been used yet I am sure some day it WILL be.
It was a Pontiac Grand AM, not a Corvette. And this guy had a suspended license or something like that.
No, it just records the information and over written on the same memory. It do not adjust/adapt to your driving style. The only cars that do that are certain models of Ferrari and BMW currently and it is programed into the ECU/ECM (not this box everyone is refering to).
#19
TLover
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Brooklyn, New York
Age: 41
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Originally Posted by fast-tl
Speaking of Big Brother devices, users of the toll tag should be aware that it can be used as a speed enforcement device, noting the speed at which you pass through the toll lane:
>From: "Matt Murray" <mattm@optonline.net>
>
>All:
>
>I received this warning in the mail today. The GPS speed enforcement
>(like in the UK) is probably just around the corner. An FYI is that
>this particular toll has a speed limit of 20 mph. E-Z Pass is the
>system that has a transponder mounted in cars for automated toll
>collection (and speed enforcement, too!).
>
>It stated the following:
>
>Addressed to me (details unnecessary)
>
>"In applying for an E-ZPass account, you agreed to abide by the
>E-ZPass License Agreement Terms and Conditions. Among those provisions
>of the Agreement was that you must approach and pass through an
>"E-ZPass Only" lane at the posted speed limit and that failure to do
>so could result in the revocation of your E-ZPass Privileges.
>
>The Thruway Authority detected E-ZPass tag XXXXXXXXXXX (one of my
>tags) assigned to your account. passing through the E-ZPass toll lane
>referenced below in excess of the posted speed of 5 miles per hour.
>
>Tag ID / plaza / Lane / Date / Time / Speed
>xxxxxx 98 02N 11/08/99 12:48:07 33
>
>Please be advised that the next violation of the posted speed limit by
>any tag assigned to your account will result in the suspension of your
>E-ZPass account for 60 days. Additional violations could result in a
>longer suspension or revocation of your E-ZPass account. The safety of
>our toll collectors and the traveling public is critical to the
>Authority and to the success of the E-ZPass program.
>
>If you have any questions, please call 1-800-333-TOLL to speak with a
>Customer Service Representative.
>
>Violation Processing Center
>E-ZPass Customer Service Center"
>
>
>I suspect this concept will travel to the other states with these
>systems.
>Welcome Big Brother!
>
>To add insult to injury, I asked for any other info since the incident
>was four months ago. and they said they couldn't look up any
>information, because their computers had been down since 10 AM (this
>was at 5:30 PM). They offered to call me back when the system was up
>and running. I hope it wasn't the same computer tracking me. And
>please no lectures about speeding (I'm sure the system doesn't allow
>for the different tire size introduced by snow tires).
>
>BTW, NYSTA = New York State Thruway Authority.
>
>Matt Murray
>
>mattm@optonline.net
>
>From: "Matt Murray" <mattm@optonline.net>
>
>All:
>
>I received this warning in the mail today. The GPS speed enforcement
>(like in the UK) is probably just around the corner. An FYI is that
>this particular toll has a speed limit of 20 mph. E-Z Pass is the
>system that has a transponder mounted in cars for automated toll
>collection (and speed enforcement, too!).
>
>It stated the following:
>
>Addressed to me (details unnecessary)
>
>"In applying for an E-ZPass account, you agreed to abide by the
>E-ZPass License Agreement Terms and Conditions. Among those provisions
>of the Agreement was that you must approach and pass through an
>"E-ZPass Only" lane at the posted speed limit and that failure to do
>so could result in the revocation of your E-ZPass Privileges.
>
>The Thruway Authority detected E-ZPass tag XXXXXXXXXXX (one of my
>tags) assigned to your account. passing through the E-ZPass toll lane
>referenced below in excess of the posted speed of 5 miles per hour.
>
>Tag ID / plaza / Lane / Date / Time / Speed
>xxxxxx 98 02N 11/08/99 12:48:07 33
>
>Please be advised that the next violation of the posted speed limit by
>any tag assigned to your account will result in the suspension of your
>E-ZPass account for 60 days. Additional violations could result in a
>longer suspension or revocation of your E-ZPass account. The safety of
>our toll collectors and the traveling public is critical to the
>Authority and to the success of the E-ZPass program.
>
>If you have any questions, please call 1-800-333-TOLL to speak with a
>Customer Service Representative.
>
>Violation Processing Center
>E-ZPass Customer Service Center"
>
>
>I suspect this concept will travel to the other states with these
>systems.
>Welcome Big Brother!
>
>To add insult to injury, I asked for any other info since the incident
>was four months ago. and they said they couldn't look up any
>information, because their computers had been down since 10 AM (this
>was at 5:30 PM). They offered to call me back when the system was up
>and running. I hope it wasn't the same computer tracking me. And
>please no lectures about speeding (I'm sure the system doesn't allow
>for the different tire size introduced by snow tires).
>
>BTW, NYSTA = New York State Thruway Authority.
>
>Matt Murray
>
>mattm@optonline.net
>
#20
Racer
Tire size has absolutely nothing to do with it. The EZPass is not transmitting any data other than your tag ID info. Your speed is calculated by the system based on how quickly you pass between two points (recievers).
#21
05 C230K & 09 135i 6MT
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Originally Posted by SpecialFX
Tire size has absolutely nothing to do with it. The EZPass is not transmitting any data other than your tag ID info. Your speed is calculated by the system based on how quickly you pass between two points (recievers).
This is exactly correct.
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