priggly

On the "I'm sorry, but the TL rapes the new BMW 3" thread, just now closed, the statement was made by Wildcat Jon at 0830 this morning that the Logic7 in his new 330i, which replaced his vibrating '04 TL which he could not get fixed, was "AS GOOD OR BETTER THAN THE ELS SYSTEM."

Well, according to "the final survey results of the ELS Surround Sound Challenge compiled by MORPACE International Research, Panasonic's revolutionary new discrete, six-channel DVD Audio premium sound system, ELS Surround, was the overwhelming favorite of the nearly 1,300 SAE show attendees . . . 379 of 472 participants preferred ELS (80.3%) (to the Logic7)."

http://audioworld.com/cgi-bin/FrameI...le=FrameIt.cfg

(You may have to cut and paste this link to get it to work.)

While I can certainly understand Wildcat Jon's extreme displeasure with the vibrations in his particular '04 TL, I think the strengths of the TL should not be obfuscated.

The 330 may well have some advantages over the TL but the audio system is not one of them. I have heard both and can tell you right now and on no uncertain terms the DVD-A has the Logic7 beat hands down.

While it is true that any car manufacturer can build a lemon or a clearly outstanding example of a given model, it is clear that the German cars are undergoing a quality implosion in general while the Asian cars are doing the reverse.

http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,...400331,00.html

http://www.which.net/media/pr/aug04/which/japanese.html

http://money.cnn.com/2004/11/08/pf/a...o_reliability/

As regards BMW's i-Drive, it is an absolutely hideous device which complicates driving and detracts from the "ultimate driving experience" rather than adding to it and represents a prime example of the gross overtechnologization of the German car.

The fact remains that the TL represents the best value in an upmarket sport sedan as clearly shown by its wild success in the marketplace, regardless of its foibles, and these should in fact lessen further as they did in the '05 model compared to the '04 as it further matures into its 2006 iteration.

ChicagoSteel

I hope that this thread stays factual, and not subjective.

Time will tell.

priggly

The audioworld.com link in my original post does not work.

To reach the article go to www.audioworld.com and search in "All AudioWorld" in the drop-down search menu for "Acura TL's ELS Surround System Blows Away Bose, Mark Levinson and Harman Kardon In-Car Audio Systems" and then click on the first search result.

lumpydog

Good article - too bad it's so hard to link to

Ron A

Lots of links don't work.

I'm moving this to Audio subforum, but if it gets like the thread that got closed, then history will repeat itself here.

Maryland Mike

Try this.

Zetroc

Here's the link:
http://audioworld.com/news/0403/15.a...hallenge.shtml

Of note is that they appear to be reviewing 2004 models. The current Mark Levinson (at least in the Lexus GS models) and the Infiniti M's now have DVD-A and DTS compatability. I test drove the M35 & M45, tried one of my DVD-A's and found the system to be very impressive.

Donte99TL

Oh boy here we go again

need4spd

Not to mention the new Lexus IS (2nd gen) the Levinson system plays DVD-A, DTS, CD, CD-R, MP3, WMA,, etc.

One of the big complaints for the TL has been the lack of MP3, and WMA files, seems others were paying attention to this, and the DTS tracks on DVDs (in addition to DVD-A's)

The non-levinson systems still play the MP3 and WMA files (maybe DTS?)

msmith

Is it somehow a major feat to sound better than a BMW/Harman Logic 7 system??? Or to design something that sounds way better than the ELS system?

After hearing a bunch of people rave about the ELS system in the TL when it came out, I was actually expecting something that sounded decent. It's not even close.... the door panels buzz, it distorts badly at medium levels, doesn't image worth a hoot and is not even close to linear in frequency response. But that's just my opinion, of course. If you like it, enjoy it.

When you boil it all down, premium OEM systems are still built to a tight budget and most exhibit significant deficiencies from an audiophile perspective. They're generally good enough for 95% of the population to say "Wow", though.

Manville Smith
JL Audio, Inc.

gt1

Manville, I think that TL audio sounds pretty good for a car system, where it has to deal with less than ideal enviroment and listener postion. Furthermore, there is not a reasonable better sounding alternative to it. I agree that 95% of people have no understanding about sound quality, and if they want to "upgrade" they think about a lot of bass. And this is what they get from aftermarket shops, where most of the installers lack any knowledge of audio design. Those who know, don't have right test equipment, experience and budget to create anything worthy, and anyway this is not what their customers want.
The bottom line- stock system is still the best option for people who care about sound ( I will avoid using term "audiphile"- I imagine someone playing with $10000 unidirectional patch cables)

msmith

Well, gt1... Four decent aftermarket coaxials, a reasonable subwoofer and a multi-channel amp, properly installed, will sound better than the ELS system. Not just louder, not just more bass, better overall. Stock is fine for most people, I agree... but if you really care about sound quality, an intelligently installed aftermarket system will make you much happier.

By the way, I had a chance to hear the Logic7 system in a new BMW 545i yesterday. I found it to be better sounding than the ELS system in the TL, but it still has pretty glaring flaws.

avddreamr

I'll second manville's opinion.

I wouldnt mine hearing a TL with ZRs though

Nes

turbox777

You're retarded. I've owned the TL with a navigation system for 2 years and used the navigation extensively thinking this was the best, same with my girfriend's TSX and I've listened to the audio system extensively.

I just bought the E90 330i and the iDrive is wayyyyyy better and the logic 7 will kill it. You just haven't driven it like you own it so you don't know. I've owned and driven them, not just looked up some pictures and hear a forum review from somebody else.

Greg-ster

^You bumped a two month old thread just to say that?

priggly

Your ad hominem rant shows you to be a juvenile individual unable to express himself otherwise. The audioworld.com survey clearly demonstrating the superiority of the ELS system in the TL over the LOGIC7 system is far more credible than your worthless opinion. As far as i-Drive is concerned, it is a widely deplored system which has no doubt hurt BMW's sales. The fact you consider it "wayyyyyy better" is further evidence of both your immaturity and poor judgment. Are you even old enough to have a driver's license? I doubt it.

03CoupeV6

Meh. I've heard the new TL's system and I wasn't impressed. The RL's is better.

jdb8805

I have to say that many of you who have bad opinions of ELS should consider what source you are listening to. I had an MP3 player-> Tape deck set up for a year and was not impressed with ELS. CDs didn't fare much better.

HOWEVER

Once I converted my music to DVD audio format using info on here (99 Tracks Per CD), there was a world of difference in the sound. The ELS System must pack more punch when playing a DVD-A source because the DVD-A Versions of the same tracks sound better than CD version.

The bottom line: ELS can do well with a good source (or one that it recognizes as a good source). If your source is lousy, distortion and lack of quality will show moreso than in other systems because of the dynamic range of the ELS.

turbox777

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA



OHHHH... you're the type that listens to other people's opinions rather than doing it yourself.


the new 3 will ONCE AGAIN be the leading sports sedan, beating the TL G35 IS350 and so forth, just watch. and the iDrive system is beautiful, it's really awesome.

oh, and i'm finishing my bachelors getting ready for grad. how's that. you think you're so smart gandalf? how about you just go to disneyland and have a cup of shutchomouth with mickey?




and minnie.









and goofy.

priggly

Tell us another one. You write like a poorly schooled child. The only place you've graduated from is kindergarten. Maybe.

Of course, you could also be one of those retards or functional illiterates who got promoted for reasons of political correctness rather than merit. You'd have to be at least a bit retarded if you like i-Drive . . .