So I picked up my Brand Spankin New 06 NBP/ Ebony 6 Speed TL last Thursady. Total vehicle price with all the extras... $38,000. It has 91 miles on it to date. Well check this out! I am whiping my car down this afternoon and I find 3 deep ass scratches in my rear bumper area. So I'm like shoot, already got a scratches!

Heres the best part... I look a little close at them and get what!? They HAVE TOUCH UP PAINT ON THEM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! WTF!!!!!!!! I was NOT informed or made aware of anything dealing with the nature of scartches/ touch up paint on my NEW $40,000 CAR!

So I call the dealer and ask to speak with my Sales Person. I said hey man, how are things going? " so when when were you going to tell me about the scratches on my car? And he said, I didn't have any knowledge that there were scratchs on your car, futhermore, how do I know you didn't put them there yourself? I said, BECAUSE THEY HAVE TOUCH UP PAINT ON THEM! He said, hold please. .... So he gets back on the phone and says... MR. Norris, it looks like the body shop did in fact find some deep scratches and did touch them up, they didn't think it was a big deal. So then I said, I don't give two shits what they think is a big deal, I paid for a NEW car! Thats what I want! He said, well I can offer to have the bumper repainted but it's going to take us 3 days with your car here. I said, so you expect me to drive a new car around with a KINDA new/repainted bumper? F that my firend! I want a NEW bumper that when I pull my car in the shop, they pull my hold one off and then put and new one on in 2 hours or less or I,m calling my attorney. The phone convo ened with that. Ive schedualed a meeting with the owner for Satuday morning...... What do you guys think. I think it's a rational thought. don;t you?

HOW F'EN DECIEVING IS THAT FOR THEM NOT TO TELL ME!!!!!!!!!! :angryfire

 

You have a right to be upset, but you should have at least tried to calmly reason with them first and give them the chance to laugh in your face before threatening them with getting your lawyer involved.

 

I'm 20 years old... they THOUGHT they could mess with me and get away with something like this..... THATS why I came in GUNS BLAZZING!

 

They would have tried to pull the same crap on anyone. Don't take it or make it personal.

 

I'm soo pissed right now... I'm going out to dinner... please let me know though what I should do about their "offer" and what you would have done in the same situation. Be honest though... I mean, they KNEW about it... and showed me on my way hoping I would see it....

 

I would have been pissed also. I would act calm and try to nicely solve the problem with them first. If all falls, be an asshole, talk to the General Manager and keep working your way up from there. I think you have like 48 hours to cancel the buy, don't you?

Hope all goes well ...

 

you should also be upset at ur camera cuz i cant see the scratches

 

I would tell them to take care of it today. If they have to order a new bumper then pull one off another car on the lot and put it on your car. Then they can take what ever time they want to replace the one on the car on their lot. You get a fast solution and everyone is happy. I do think that was a very underhanded thing for them to do and you had every right to go off on them. If they are not willing to help you then I would be returning the car and going else where, after I called the Acura home office first. I bet a phone call form the top down would motivate them to do right by you. My

 

Didn't you completely inspect the car at time of delivery?

Even though it is on them to straighten it out by giving you a new bumper since they admitted to fucking it up, the proper way to approach this with the dealer is by BEING NICE ABOUT IT with them at first. By showing them outrage instantly off the bat, they'll look at you as a kid and/or someone they can't wait to get rid of ... regardless of who's right or wrong and will likely be less inclined to help you with other issues that may pop up in the future.

A month after delivery, I had to leave mine with the dealer's service dept for a few days and discovered gashes in the front bumper when I went to pick it up. Right away I calmly pointed it out to the sales manager. He immediately had them switch the front bumper from a new car of the same color they had sitting on the lot.


MORAL OF THE STORY:
You can catch more bees with honey than with vinegar.

 

i agree.. take the high road first... then lay the smackdown if there is no progress..

 

I would be very pissed also. I just bought a new 06 fully loaded anthracite TL at the end of march and I thought the dealer treated me like shit because I'm 22 they kept talking to my brother like he was buying the car. I would act the same way if my car had scratches on it. Good luck getting it fixed.

 

uh, i've done things both ways.

When I was younger (early 20's), I would be hardcore and act "tough" to people if I was wronged...that just pisses people off more and then it's a hit or miss if they actually try to help you. most of the time they do it when they eventually "get around to it".

The last 5 years, I've chilled out a lot and have been nice, pretty much about everything up until someone insults me, which has never happened when being nice...but interestingly HAS happened when I acted "tough".

I now realize that most people go out of their way to help you when you try to be nice to them, even if THEY act tough at first...but that's usually just a front to deal with customers who think they're tougher...whether the customer is right or not.

And my way, everyone is usually happy during the process and at the end also.

Everybody makes mistakes, but mistake or not, nobody likes to be attacked with an attitude. You give them an attitude, they'll get defensive and that just makes things harder for everyone.

 

The reason they might treat an early 20's customer poorly is because they are so used to having said customers fly off the handle right off the bat.

 

I would have LOST it too. If I would have seen scratches without the touch-up paint I would have been reasonable and considered it an honest mistake. By putting touch up paint on the scratches they did two things: 1. they defrauded me by giving me less than I paid for (keep in mind 38K) and 2. they are questioning my integrity when I call and said it existed. I would take the car back to the dealership, calmly walk up to the sales MANAGER and hand him the keys, and ask for my money back. Then I would take my business to a dealer who I can trust to repair my car if necessary without worrying about the THINGS WE CAN'T SEE like touch-up paint. What happens when they are changing your oil and damage something you can't see. I wan't a reputatable dealer to tell me up front.

 

Dude,

You're only 20 and it definitely shows. You gotta remember, it wasn't bad enough for you to notice at acceptance, so cosmetically it must not be that big of a deal. Trust me, if that's the worst that happens in the next 30,000 miles, you'll be lucky. However, they should have done more than just apply touch up paint. Give them a chance to repair the bumper. Chances are you won't be able to tell the difference.

 

They should have told you if any touch up/body work they might have done. You are damn right . You need a new bumper if the work is not done right. You can look at the repainted whole bumper before accepting it. Body shops can match is perfectly. NBP/Ebony 6MT are so hard to find. When I bought mine, my dealer told me that there is a scratch on the fuel door and they'll do a repaint on it. I did not want to wait for more time I said fix it. If I do not like it, change the damn fuel door. When it came back I saw it first and then signed on the paper.

 

Some of you are dogging this guy out for for being PISSED OFF that the dealer was trying to pull the wool over his eyes. I'm 41, I would have done the same damn thing thou it would have been in person. Then I would have felt better once it was out of my system.

The sales rep was the one who said how do I know you didn't do it.

The dealer, ALL F'ing dealer should have a Quality Control System in place that works. But they don't give a damn and we all know that.

 

That's exaclty why I used to get "tough"...

1. So you find touch up paint on the car. Right away, you ASSUME they are looking down on you by defrauding you. Putting on touch up IS probalby just standard procedure, and depending on the severity, most buyers would not even notice or care. There are a few that do, but still, that does not mean that anyone is defrauding anyone, $38k car or not.

2. So you say that they are questioning your integrity when you said it existed. First, you have no idea if the guy you're talking to has ANY idea that he knows if it exists or not. And AGAIN, you are assuming they are looking down on you and questioning your integrity.

And then you think you can walk in and throw them the keys and think you can get your money back?

3. If the paperwork processing has already started, the car is yours...you should've inspected it before you took possession...otherwise you gotta go through a whole other process to get your money back.

4. And now that you've pissed off everyone at that dealership by being "tough", do you really think they will want to cooperate with you when going through that process?

5. You just gave them justification for being tough with customers...so when the next guy comes in with a scratch on his bumper, the dealership, being used to how YOU treated them, will treat this NEXT customer in a defensive manner.

6. Now you're all pissed off and defensive, and you're bitchy and moody. That doesn't happen when you are nice and try to be understanding. I'm not saying to bend over and take it up the ass, I'm saying be firm and make it clear that something is not right, but not to throw it in anyone's face and accuse them of "defrauding" you, even if it seems they did.

Being nice is underrated...but it goes a long way, especially when they're used to dealing with people who react like you would.

 

 

So in your line of work, are you telling me that you are so careful and mistakes are never made, and that you would simply own up to every mistake and that you would go the extra mile to please every single customer, even if someone calls you up and accuses you and bitches you out about a mistake? Unless you can tell me that in your line of work NO mistake are ever made, maybe your company should have a Quality Control System in place that works too!

I've been on BOTH sides (not in the auto industry, but another customer service industry), so I know how it feels when people act "tough" and try to act "big"....I feel LESS likely to go out of my way to help them, whether it was my fault or not...I don't know about you, but that's not very conducive to getting problems fixed quickly.

 

Alright, I'm back from my dinner. Had a long talk with my Girlfriend at dinner and came to realize that I was right at being firm in my conversation with my Acura dealer today. Why? Because if I had come off like the kind and considerate 20 year old kid that came in to buy the car... they would have screwed me just as easily as they did when the released the car to me with scratches touched up. (oh and sorry, but the camera does not do them justice, this NBP paint is so unreal that it would not let my camera take a clean shot... too reflective)

So, what I am saying is.... pretend that you are a cashier and you decide to short change "Frank".. so you ring him up and you short him $1 in change. He takes the money (without counting what you gave him) puts the money in his wallet and walks away.

Now, pretend you try to short change "BOB". .. you ring him out and short change him $1, however, BOB gets home and counts his change and finds out that you ripped him off $1. So he comes in there very blunt and strict on how he viewed such an unacceptable experience. He asks for the management and so on and so forth....

Now, after those experiences.... which do you thing would be more likely to be short changed again by (you) the cashier? Frank or BOB. My guess (if you are intellectually honest with yourself) would be BOB. Why? Because you damn well don't want to go through that again. You probly got reamed out by your boss (even if it was a mistake or not) and your job my have been threatened.

Guess what I'm saying is.... In today's world, you must show dominance if you want something done right, in a timely fashion, ect..ect...

My guess is tomorrow morning when I walk into that office with the owned of the Acura dealership he will MAKE SURE THAT I AM HAPPY. They bluffed, I called it, game over.

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrdeeno

So in your line of work, are you telling me that you are so careful and mistakes are never made, and that you would simply own up to every mistake and that you would go the extra mile to please every single customer, even if someone calls you up and accuses you and bitches you out about a mistake? Unless you can tell me that in your line of work NO mistake are ever made, maybe your company should have a Quality Control System in place that works too!

I've been on BOTH sides (not in the auto industry, but another customer service industry), so I know how it feels when people act "tough" and try to act "big"....I feel LESS likely to go out of my way to help them, whether it was my fault or not...I don't know about you, but that's not very conducive to getting problems fixed quickly.

I'm a Food Broker, I sell food to Commissaries from New England down to North Carolina. If I FUCK UP, I own up to it. I don't hide from my customers because their is no one else to blame. The buck stop with me or one of 3 of my sales reps. If we don't do OUR job we don't get paid. I've been doing this since 1990, and make a good living at it.

I try to treat people the way I want to be treated, with straight up no Bull Shit. If you are man enough to admit a mistake and not hide from it, I'll do business with you. I've just spent over $25,000.00 on home improvements and would do business with all them again except the ones who did my windows, because their scheduling manager was a pussy who wouldn't return phone calls.

One thing for thought, I worked part time at the cable company from 93-98, so I know something about customers getting screwed and I found it better to tell them the truth then to lie to them. Just think about how many times your cable, phone or whoever told you bullshit just so they didn't have to talked to you.

As far as your act tough statement, the kid was insulted by the sales rep first. The sales rep should not have done that. You would like to have someone call you a lair?

I had the dealer detail team scratch my black 05 TL when they dried my car off with a rock in the towel. When I went to the service rep he said the same thing to me about the scratches, saying I did it. I got pissed and we got the Service Manager before anything else was said. And they buffed out the scratches the next day only to get my car to see that they had damaged it (right front bumper, over 1/4" deep, 13" long) while parking it on their lot, I now have a '06 TL ASM.

 

I Think you did the right thing and dont show weakness.

I had a similar experience too..not with a scratch, but the doors on my TL didnt match. I didnt noticed it when i inspected it...i was looking for scratches..who would of thing the door color was a shade off. I drove the car back same day and the person said she cant see it and bring it back monday for the service dept to take a look. Then said they will have a Acura rep look at it when he comes by.

I didnt wait ..i called Acura Corp to file a complaint..they took the vin# and my name and etc.. Then wrote up a 2 page letter to the GM of the dealership and faxed it to him. Got a call a few days later and they said they going to put me in a new car. Took them a month to find me a replacement car..wtf.

Its funny cause my sale rep..seem to not work there the day after i show her the problem and the finiance guy too. I also never got a survey of my sale experience..they said it will be mail out within a week.

Keep strong and fight them!!!

 

Mrdeeno,
in exactly 1 week and about 8 hours (7 am next Saturday) I will be leaving for my second tour in Iraq, Baghdad to be exact. I am not sure what you do for a living but I bet your employer don't just hand you your livelihood, you have to earn it. I believe that three scratches decreases the value of the car. I wouldn't normally behave that way but the fact that they decided to cover it with touch-up paint and not tell me says something to me about the person working on my car. If, like you said "most buyers would not notice" I would ask what if it was something big. If they act that way about something small what about something bigger. I would NOT want to do business with unethical people, big or small.

 

Maybe he should start posting in Ramblings...

 

I would ask for another car. If they hid that and knew about it, what else do they know.

 

Correct me if I am wrong but the VIN is on ALL body panels so it won't match if he gets a new bumper or one from another car and it creates another problem as the car they remove it from would also have a mismatch VIN.

Pretty sleazy for a dealer to pass off that kind of crap. I think at your age you likely did the right thing. They may have thought they could pull one off on you but they definitely know better now. The ball is in their court so play along with them and see what they will do to accommodate you. Maybe a free A-spec body kit would cover it up ? Anyway make sure you get the maximum goodwill from them. Eg: A-spec suspension package at cost. You are better not to burn any bridges with your dealer.

 

I'm not positive but I think the VIN is only on the sheet metal body parts, not on the plastic bumpers or side panels. Since these are parts that are replaced more often than the sheet metal, the problem you describe would arise if they had VIN's on the plastic parts.

 

The vin is on the bumpers as well. When I was rear ended I was upset that I would not have a VIN'd bumper anymore. If you want to know where the VIN on the bumper is, it is where the trunk meets the bumper on the passenger side (upper part of bumper covered by the trunk).

 

I think you need to discuss calmly to resolve the problem unless that was a shit ass dealer to start off.

If you piss them off at the start, they could like you mentioned say what's to say that the scratch got there after you drove off the car. And furthermore the touch up paint was your doing.

Thorough inspection is a must before taking posession of the car and driving it off the lot.

 

Excuse me for my frankness....but I personally would have taken it back to the dealer the same day and "turned it back in" and backed out of the deal promptly and told em bar none...I was NO longer interested....period and left. That is not cool at all. Now the fact that you accepted it that way is a whole other question....but I know what you mean...you just were not expecting something like this on a new car so you didnt look. Lesson learned I am sure.

 

Sorry to hear that znorris it sucks specially if u paid that much money and people bullshit.I ll probally do the same thing if i am in your shoes
U did the right thing man

now i am more courious



I need you guys advice I just bought 2006 TL black on black i signed all the contract s but havent paid and picked up the car yet ill be paying in 3 days with cashier check and ill get the delivery the day after and right after leaving the dealership just wanna look at the car make sure everything is ok,luckily i saw there was little white thin lines about 1inch long then went ahead and told the salesperson he said they are going to detail and polish the car when i come back for delivery.
Do u think its common to see those little thin white lines before detailed and polished or it was actuall a scratch they r going to paint em or what ?
Or am i gonna have experience like znorris .
IF i go pickit up after 3 days and they still have those lines.can i backed out from the sale even though i have signed sale contract and other papers and havent paid yet and got delivery yet.

PLEASE HELP ME GUIDE THROUGH THIS.

WHAT U GUYS THINK THE RIGHT THING TO DO.

THANKU GUYS

 

Dealers... what can i say?
That's how they are.
they treat you like crap if you are young.
I went to infinity because i was interested in G35, and this dealer was treating me like nothing thinking that i couldn't buy the car. So i just asked him for a ridiculous price and he denied, basically the manager denied my offer. So, when i was leaving i just asked him to write me in a paper that he agreed to sell it at that price he set. He said he can't do business like that and gave me some attitute. So i left. Now he still send me letters that "we missed your business.. blah blah" He called me twice a day to tell me he had offers. too late, i got my TL the next day.
Love this car. G35 is too loud and the interior... basically NO good.

 

Hey man I know how u feel! I work for Acura and you should see just how many cars have problems when they are being delivered! Lots of people are driving around with cars that have paint hoods, fenders and bumpers! The worst part is that they don't know aleast you have the satifaction of know that your car has been painted! The dealers don't have to tell you and honda will warranty all aftermarket paint put on the car before delivery. Don't expect the owner to get you a free car or for honda to go out of there way to get you one! But the least they could do for you is replace the bumper or give you a super high quality paint job! Or suggest to them that they could use a high speed polish wheel on the car to make it look really nice. Because lets face it all TL's have slight orange peel in the paint!I gave mine to our detailer for a weekend and it looks like Acura should have used it in the 2005 auto show! Cost me about 200 cash but well worth it! Don't get me wrong all manufactures go throught the same problems. My brother sells BMW's and he had to deliver a brand new M6 and they had to paint the front bumper and front left quarter ! How do you think that guy is feel right now , and they defenatly didn't tell that guy about the paint!! Sorry im not tryin to make you made but there is know way in hell the owner would come in to the store on a saturday morning!! It probley just the sales manager! And they will give as little as possible , so they don't lose there jobs!!!

 

you paid 40k for your TL? LOL

 

Actually it was $38,000 like I had said in my first post. $40,000 is the expression amount. Like... if you bought a house for $97,000 when you talk about it you would most likely say $100,000. Get me? But anyway, if you decided to laugh still at he fact that I paid 38K I also mentioned that the price was totaled AFTER my mods.


On a 2006 NBP/Ebony 6 Speed Navi
-Deck Lid
-All Season Floor Mats
-Door Visors
-Moon Roof Visor
-TST protective Coating
-Engine Block heater
-Body Side Molding
-Splash guards
-Extended warrenty

$38,000 for all that in THAT car isn't bad at all.

On another note, I'm leaving right now to go over there... and yes, the ower WAS going to be there this morning REGUARDLES of why I'm going in but I understand where you are coming from meaning he has better things to do on a saturaday. But... he's going to be there....

WISH ME LUCK!

-Zack

 

Engine Block Heater...and you live in PA??? LOL!!! Also, the paint protection is a total waste of money. Someone ripped you off dude. Unless you live in Alaska, you don't need a block heater, and Zaino would be better than that shit they sold you for paint protection..it's a total ripoff.

BTW....I wouldn't accept a repainted bumper. When Acura gets a new bumper, they are not painted, so even a NEW bumper is going to be a repaint. I'd insist on them switching bumpers with a new NBP TL from their lot. If they don't have one on the lot, just wait until they get one, then insist that they give you that bumper, and let someone else deal with a repainted bumper. I've had 2 NBP TL's...and I know how difficult getting that metallic flake to match can be. There is almost no way they'll get it perfect...unless they're a super shop...which I doubt from the way they treated you. Trying to pass off a touch-up job on a NEW car is almost criminal. I would report them to the BBB...and post the name of the dealer on this website so EVERYONE will know what crooks they are. BTW...I also live in PA..and my dealer, "Jones Acura" in Lancaster PA, is GREAT! They would never try to pull a stunt like that on me, or anyone else that buys a car from their dealership. It's not the fanciest Acura dealership in my area, but they are decent, honest people, and I highly recommend you get a new dealer to service your car in the future.

 

We are not talking about YOU though, we are talking about the customer. You fuck up, you own up, and that's commendable. But when you DO fuck up...do you appreciate it when a customer calls up angry accusing you of cheating him and questioning his integrity? And especially when it was actually someone else that did the fuckup, so you have no idea what the guy was screaming about when he called? All i'm saying is that there is appropriate reaction to fuckups, and most of the time it does not require getting unreasonably "tough", even if whoever did the fuckup denied it at first.

Bottom line, do your customers ASSUME right off the bat that you are a crook when a mistake is made?


And again, if you make a mistake, it is commendable to admit it...but again, it was A MISTAKE! When someone ELSE makes a mistake and you're the customer, do you assume they are looking down on you and then get all "tough" because of that? Do you want THEM to assume you are looking down on THEM when you make a mistake in your business?



But look at the situation...if I was a car dealership and go through some of the shit I read on this board and other automotive forums, I'd sure as hell have the same attitude. There are many examples of people trying to "cheat" the system and get MORE than what they deserve. But again, does that necessarily require a "tough" response?

I've had a Acura dealer call me a liar concerning the Navi disc update...they promised 2 updates when I bought the car. They made a mistake...the 2 updates are for the hard drive based ones. But I called them up acting "tough" and in the end, got nothing excpet pissed off. This was in my younger days and I could have tried to pursue it further, but why? I realize now I could've been nice, realized that it was a mistake and let them rectify it rather than accuse them of lying to me to make a sale (which is what i did).

 

I'm going by what znorris posted in his first post...

.

Right off the bat, he is ASSUMING that his salesman knows and is hiding the fact from him. He is ASSUMING that the salesman is looking down on him and trying to deceive him. And if you read the rest of the post, the salesman didn't end up denying anything...to me it seems that he didn't even know about the touch up until he called the bodyshop.

Hey, you accuse me of making a REAL mistake that I don't know about, I'm going to defend myself.

Me, I would've brought it to their attention, something along the lines of, It states the problem without accusing anyone of being deceiving or cheating, and it gives reasons why it should be fixed by the dealership.


Case in point...I had some parts installed at Park Ave. Acura several years ago. I live 2 hours away, so after everything was done I pickedup the car and drove home. After getting home, I realized there was a nasty dent in the c-pillar...called them up and said something along the lines of "I noticed there was a dent on my C-pillar, it looks pretty nasty and I don't recall it being there when I dropped my car off. Could it had been caused by accident and one of your techs didn't notice it?"

They told me to bring it back and they would look at it. I brought it back a week later, Wayne looked at it, and told me taht it was caused by a stone because the way the paint was chipped (had a "trail"). I said it was in an obvious spot (driver's side C-pillar above the gas door), so I know it wasn't there when I dropped it off, but if there's anything he can do, I'd appreciate it.

You know what they did? They fixed it for me. I'm sure that Wayne wasn't 100% sure it was a rock chip, and I'm not 100% sure it was caused by them. But I didn't go and throw it in his face and say they tried to cheat me and lie to me, and I was treated accordingly for being nice about it.

 

How did I miss this one! I too am a sales rep in the foodservice industry .... we are brokers guy...thats why its ALWAYS our fault! Part of the position we are put in! MFG's gotta blame somebody....and its NEVER their untrained regional managers fault! How many regionals have YOU trained....I am sure you know what I mean! I am a CPMR...so yes....and often....even when you do your job somehow you end up getting screwed out of your commission! Happens. Not often...but it does happen. As you state...in the end...we do ok.