ElmerHiggins

From the "Check your trunk alignment" thread in "Problems and fixes"


Its sad that we have to resort to fixing our own vehicles because acuras service dept sucks, I called to get an apointment for my trunk being misaligned among other things and the service rep goes :
"has the car been wrecked? "
"why didnt you bring this up when you bought it? "
"whered id u buy it? "
"ive never heard of this, you are the first one complaining of a misaligned trunk!? "

then he says i dont know that we can fix this for you , it may have to go back to thesellign dealer (which is 1.5 hours away), Im like dude, i didnt notice a slightly shifted trunk, it didnt start chipping the paint until I STARTED TO USE THE TRUNK!

I thought to myself geeez these guys have no clue how to talk to customers, next car will definitely not be an acura, it will be a LEXUS!

i also had to go through hell and back just to find a dealer in the atlanta area who would give a loaner, i thought it was common practice for acura service to give a loaner but most of these dealerships were like you would have to wait because we dont give loaners unless the car is UNSAFE.

this sucks, totally disappointed in the quality and attitude of service departments, Im sure LEXUS will be able to take care of me next time!

vp911

Fair enough. I don't blame you, in fact, I will be honest, I wanted to get the new GS as the replacement for my totaled TL, but I just couldn't spend the extra money for the GS (extra 6-8 thousand). While my acura service department has become much better and respectful, I still know the lexus dealer blows away Acura (we have a RX300).

ElmerHiggins

How much does a GS300 go for , is it really 6-8 grand on top of a RL? Damn i didnt realize that.

ElmerHiggins

Oh well, the next IS is supposed to be BAD ASSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

vp911

Loaded GS is I *think* $52k, but they are not discounting mroe than a thousand off them and they are hard to find (3 month waiting at my local lexus dealer). The RL is selling for 43-45 around the country. The IS is basically a small GS. From what I remember the designs are the same and the interior is the same (design wise) - which is still a great looking vehicle.

As far as your problems with Acura, I am sorry to hear about that still. I would go to another dealer if there is another one close by...?

TomTLR

No complaints about service here, the Acura dealer we bought from has been great to us.

ElmerHiggins

Oh I see, yeah my dad is looking to get into one of those later this year, or whenever the inventories build up some that they will budge off the price.
By the way, the onyl reason I bought my car 150 miles from atlanta is because all of the atlanta dealers magically gave me the EXACT same high price for the TL, (can you say price fixing?) and I actually found a dealer will to work with me elsewhere.

BiggyMcWang

I don't blame you, only a handful of good service from Acura. Lexus on the other hand... haha THEY TREAT YOU LIKE A QUEEN!!! Pamper you and everything. Even when I've been to a BMW dealer, Lexus rocks them still. Yeah I agree, go for the GS if you can . Very SEXY. I'm not a fan of IS though hehe. Best wishes on ur next purchase though

BTW, you know Lexus service departments (some) pick you your car at your house and drop off the loaner in the process?

TomTLR

Actually, the Acura dealer we bought from owns a Lexus dealer that's right next to the Acura dealer, maybe that has something to do with it. lol

ElmerHiggins

Vik: I called all atlanta area dealers, one of them gave me the lines i posted up above, another said he would have to LOCATE a tech who could align a trunk and would call me back, I NEVER RECEIVED A CALL!, another said that he wouldnt give me a loaner and that I might have to go to the selling dealer for the trunk, and the final one agreed to give me a loaner after some severe begging!

i didnt take the comments of the service rep i quoted above to heart until i called around and started getting unprofessional and outright rude comments by other reps as well, so i began to make sure that the words coming out of my mouth werent " I WANT A FREE CAR OFF YOUR LOT" but infact "Here are the issues with my new TL", sure enough it was the latter but the reps seemed to act like I wanted something for free.

ElmerHiggins

LOL, that is sooo funny and explains everything, because when I read your post I thought to myself, is this guy forreal? that cant be the case! haha

clearly the service reps at the acura dealership have been taking lessons from those at the lexus shop next door

lumpydog

Elmer - do me a favor and try not to quote me out of context. My Acura dealer is phenominal. I elected to fix the bent catch myself because I was too lazy to return to the dealer for something I didn't consider to be a major issue - not because my service department sucks. To the contrary - my dealer has been great and I know they would have replaced the catch if I wanted them to.

leeherman

I've recently been having debates with a co-worker about American vs. Japanese vs. European quality.

I take the side of Japanese makes, and my co-worker sticks up for American and some European makes.

My co-worker has been making a point of showing me how people complain about Acuras on this site, and how it's not really any better on the LX forum (MOPAR) that he's been checking out. Having read from both forums, it got me thinking, so I logged onto Club Lexus.

It turns out that some Lexus owners on clublexus.com have gripes just like we do. You know, rattles, quality issues, and poor dealer service. From the skimming I gave the site, the complaints are proportional in quantity and severity to those here.

Want a Porsche? I checked one of their forums a while back. It's amazing, but an $80,000 Porsche can have rattles too! Whodathunkit!!

I guess my points are that:

a) All cars CAN have SOME problems.
b) People can suck, and dealers are made up of people.
c) You will get no guarantee of satisfaction when buying a Lexus just like you will get no guarantee of dissatisfaction when buying a Dodge, Ford, Pontiac, Benz, Acura etc...
d) People on forums complain disproportionally to those who are satisfied.
e) I have too much time on my hands and I spend it at this site.

I took delivery of my car one year ago (6/25/2004 - happy birthday!), buying it after spending around two months lurking here. I learned a lot about the good and bad of the car, and also learned who was prone to be umm, shall we say "anal". I figured out which complaints were potential trouble spots, and which ones were isolated to a particularly unfortunate owner.

After a year and 4,300 miles I only have two complaints. One is about the flat-spotting EL-42s. It's annoying, but other than that, the tires don't seem bad. The other complaint is that I don't drive the car enough, and that's my fault. I don't know if my lack of complaints makes me the exception or the rule, but either way, I'm very pleased with my car, and I can't imagine a Lexus treating me better than my TL has treated me.

Just remember, the grass ISN'T always greener, and check the Lexus forums with a bit of healthy skepticism before you make the leap.

Regards,

gregory28_RENAMED

Guys:

Acura service isn't bad, it's YOUR dealer. I have nothing but wonderful things to say about my dealer here in New Jersey. Whenever I need something it's done. A loaner is available everytime I bring the car in- even if I just need an oil change. They discount services to me and go the extra mile for me. Plenty of people here speak highly of their service department.

elmerhiggins: Lexus has a great reputation for service and Lexus makes great cars; good luck to you. If I lived in Atlanta and I had the experiences you had, I'd write a few letters to them and to Acura complaining, then I'd find another Acura dealer. There must be 1/2 dozen or more close to where you live.

03CoupeV6

Were any of these bad Atlanta dealers Nalley Acura?

I did get an RL loaner for my 02 TL-P once, though. I still had to get Acura Corporate involved to get problems fixed. $4000 worth of warranty work later and my TL still isn't quite finished.

ElmerHiggins

youre right, my bad on that, i guess what i meant was that it seems that a bunch of us are having to venture out on our own to fix warranty issues, maybe its because we are just gearheads or maybe ists because our dealers couldnt care less about the problems with our cars (expecially if they didnt sell it to you).

I understand that there are some good dealers and some bad ones, it just seems that the dealers here, in atlanta, have this facination with having poor service and giving the same exact deals as one another.

I also looked into the LX and GX and while those trucks do have problems, the service department at lexus dealerships hardly would respond in the way the acura dealers did with me.

it just seems that there is disproportionate number of acura dealers offering service typical of KIAs

ElmerHiggins

Nalley? LOL, Dont get me started

vp911

Somebody should also point out, you pay for the luxury service at lexus. Every 5000 miles our RX300 goes in for oil change/ normal maint. we pay $100 whereas my acura dealer is roughly $30. The 15k service is $300+ the 30k service is 500+ So you are really paying for that additional satisfaction.

My dealer has never given me a hard time about the TL and TSX that I bought from another dealer. Only when I added the RJ wheels or other aftermarket parts they had issues with servicing the car.

ElmerHiggins

interesting, did not notice it was such a wide difference, $30 for oil changes ? damn thats a deal, I thoght people were paying much more than that.

ndx2

Service departments/service advisors generally don't like young kids driving cars they can't afford at 40. I'm guessing you're pretty young, elmer... they just don't like you driving a nicer car than they do and usually have a bias that you're a spoiled punk - and who knows, maybe you sounded like one (certainly not implying that you are one).

When I dress as I usually do, they think I'm in my mid to late 20's and treat me pretty well. If I dress in just jeans/sweatshirt/shorts/t-shirt, then I look like a typical teen ager, and they usually treat me like shit (i.e. won't answer my questions with a straight answer, gimme typical dealership bs, etc). Also, when I talk to them in a respectable manner, they do so, too.

Anyway, while Lexus dealerships are known for their superior service, Acura isn't too bad - especially when compared to domestic brands. Their cars do come with a premium tag, and I, for one, don't like to pay that... especially because I'm not a huge fan of their designs and soft rides. The new IS looks awesome though. RWD/AWD is always a plus, too. Too bad the 350 only comes with AT! I don't think I can easily give up my 6MT TL - even if my dealership's service dept sucks as much as yours.

Brettg

You want to know about bad, you should get a VW.
Not only do they have lots of problems, when you take it in, you get
no loaner car, and they always keep the car 3 or 4 days, they always seem to have to order parts and wait for them.
Then they dont fix the problem, can not duplicate the problem, etc.

I think Jaguar is (was) very good, likely like lexus and benz, you go in
and they fix whatever you complain about without any fuss, and give
you a NICE loaner car.

I would guess acura is above average.

As far as problems, the more complex cars get, the more likely they are to have
problems.

I dont think I have heard anything but real nit picking here, i have not heard
of big oil leaks, using over a quart of oil every 1000 miles, constant
check engine lights, broken seat mounts, rear brakes that are worn out at
15,000 miles, bad tie rods and ball joints at 50,000 miles or less, engines
that got oil sludge and blew up, leaking heater cores, headlight bulbs that
burn out in 15,000 miles, seat heaters that catch fire, clutches that dont go 75,000 miles, warped brake disks, coolant temp sensors that fail, evap solinoids
that fail, window regulators that break at 30,000 miles, fuel pumps that
wear out at 27,000 miles, etc....
They had bad coil packs on some cars, one would fail, the dealers would replace it with the new ones, then 1000 miles later another would go, they would replace that one, and there was a real shortage of coils, people had to wait.

The 1.8T engine in the passat is a turbo motor that holds under 4 quarts of oil,
and the dealers used regular oil, and at 5000 miles, sludge plugs up the oil intake screen and ruins the motor.
VW recomended synthetic oil but the dealers used dyno oil.
When they put the 1.8T in the passat, they had to reduce the sump size to get
it to fit over the sub frame, and the oil was down to about 3.5 quarts in a TURBO
motor!

Those are all very common VW problems.

So if you have a rattle, or slight imperfection, maybe think about the VW cars!

Brett

03CoupeV6

Haha Ed Wilke ring any bells? I filled out a survey on him that was NOT flattering.

mio

Don't blame VW, i don't get any loaner cars from acura either!

and I got much more problems than my GF's vw new beetle!

and that beetle has no rattle at all, also my another car 02 AUDI A4

got no problems for 3 years already! German car is not that bad as u guys think!

mio

PS: I just saw the CAR AND DRIVE MAGAZINE,

they compared A4 S40 SUBARU LEGENCY AND TSX , AND tsx won the top1 position.

They also compared BMW 530I BENZ E350 LEXUS GS430 AUCRA RL AND INFINITI M45,

ACURA RL is the top 2 position~ ( top1 is m45, GS 430 is third.)

I just wondering where is our TL?

TomTLR

Our Acura didn't have any loaner cars available at the time, they were all taken out, so they called Enterprise and got us a car to use from them, for no charge of course. Enterprise came to the dealership with the rental (Pontiac Grand Prix), filled out a bit of paperwork, and we were off. When we got our TL back from service we just left the rental car with the dealer as they instructed us.

I guess it all depends on the dealer.

adrianp

It's the nature of ANY forum. Whether its a forum about cars, a game, etc... People don't really have much of a reason to post, Dam I love this car, or dam I got great service today at my dealer. What for? BUT most people will definately post about problems or stuff they don't like. I don't pay much attention to individual posts about them complaining, what I do look for is for OTHER people's post about the same thing. But one guy posting, bleh whatever.

I just came off a 52K BMW M3. Want to hear my experience about it? The car has just as many problems as any other car. Handles in the interior peeling every couple of months. The rubber in the cup holders peeling as well. Seals around the windows coming apart. You mean to tell me 52K and they can't fucking find glue that will stick! One door doesn't open and close right. Sometimes, the car locks and you can't get out of the car. You have to shut the engine off, then start it again and hit the unlock button and hope it unlocks. What did the dealer say, sorry we can't reproduce it. Oh, how about the wipers. Hit the wiper fluid and watch the wipers move DRY for a couple of seconds before the fluid hits, WTF! They can't do anything about that either. An ignition coil, or whatever the fuck it was, went out and the engine crapped out. The list goes on and on and on. Gee, so what does that tell you? BMW is a POS car? Pricey? Yeah, but total junk? Nope.

mio

WOW, bmw fukin sux!

Donte99TL

All I can say is Acura of Carlsbad is top notch. Never have had prblems with. Now the service dept at Cush Acura Escondido sucks the big ass.

Brettg

Well, give it time.
I had half the problems I listed on my 2003 passat, at 27000 miles.
To have the fuel pump wear out at 26,000 miles and the car not
run is just not right.
I never ran low or out of gas, and I cut the old fuel pump open, and found the brushes worn out.

The Passat GLX was the perfect car for me, roomy, comfortable, quiet, smooth,
real mice gauges and displays, fold down rear seats, etc, but after 2 years it
was having constant problems, despite being well cared for.
And not just minor problems.
I knew the other half of my list was just waiting till my next vacation to join
the party, so I dumped it.

I see the TL is built in Ohio, with lots of US made parts, is that why the TL
is shown a bit lower in reliability than other Acura's?

I got a chance to go out for a drive last night (without wife) and checked out
the handling on some twistys....very impressive, car goes around turns
REAL well.
Before the ride, I checked the tire pressures:

Drivers front 44 psi
Pass front 40 psi
Drivers rear 36 psi
Pass rear 35 psi

No wonder it felt harsh on bumps.
I set the pressure to 35 on the front tires, and 32 on the rears.
The rears still look a bit on the high side, but the car rode much better.

Very impressive power, even when not close to the peak power
rpm band.

I am VERY pleased with the performance of my TL, just wish some of the
controls were better.
You can not see the outside temp and the MPG at the same time, nor see
the button to select between them as its hidden by the steering wheel.

I also wish they had included a trip MPG reading in addition to the
overall mpg reading.

Brett

ElmerHiggins

Haha, whats so funny is they stated that "I was the first one to complain of a trunk misalgnment" but if he bothered to walk his lot and deck hed notice about 80% of his tls have poorly aligned trunks, (some sitting very low, some very misaligned on the right side). I walked their lot and noticed car after car with the same problem.

msu79gt82

The GS300 has an MSRP of $8000 above Invoice while a comparably equiped Infiniti M35 by comparison has an MSRP of $4000 above MSRP. So for all those who brag about Lexus' pampering service - just realize that you are paying to be pampered.

afici0nad0

i'm a member in both is300.net and this forum.

reason i am a member in is300.net is that i was looking to buy a used 2002 is300 5mt, but decided to get the tsx instead.

both forums are the same. more people complaining than praising about service, quality control, etc...

youngTL

My Acura dealer only charges $31.95 for oil changes. It used to be $29.95 but they went up $2 .

Keep in mind that's in Canadian dollars too!

caha14

For your viewing pleasure...


Ranking the Most-Reliable Cars
Lexus Tops J.D. Power Survey,
But Mercedes, VW Struggle;
A Strong Showing for GM

By JOSEPH B. WHITE
Staff Reporter of THE WALL STREET JOURNAL
June 29, 2005 10:31 p.m.; Page D1

Auto makers are getting better at building cars that last, according to the latest J.D. Power & Associates survey of vehicle reliability. That includes some major Detroit brands that have struggled to overcome consumer concerns rooted in past quality problems.

As it has for 11 years, Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus brand ranked first in J.D. Power's Vehicle Dependability Study, which surveys consumers about problems with three-year-old vehicles. The top-ranked car in the survey was the 2002 Lexus LS 430, Lexus's top-of-the-line sedan.

The survey's results also signal that certain high-profile European brands -- Volkswagen AG's Volkswagen and Audi brands, Bayerische Motoren Werke's Mini brand, Ford Motor Co.'s stable of European luxury brands and DaimlerChrysler AG's Mercedes-Benz brand -- are at risk. All those brands ranked below average.

Despite Lexus's continued domination of the dependability study, there were some meaningful consolation prizes, particularly for General Motors Corp., Ford, DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler Group, Porsche AG, and South Korean auto maker Hyundai Motor Corp. GM, which has struggled in recent years to persuade consumers that it has overcome the quality shortcomings of the 1980s, captured the top ranking in eight of 19 market segments defined by J.D. Power, including best "entry midsize car" for the 2002 Chevrolet Malibu, best full-size pickup for the Cadillac Escalade EXT and best large SUV for the GMC Yukon. That's the most segment wins ever for GM, J.D. Power said.

Mercedes improved its score by 13% in the survey, and a company spokeswoman said the improvement indicates that "we have turned the corner on the quality situation." The top three problems cited by consumers, she said, were brake dust on the wheels, uneven tire wear and inadequate cup holders -- a perennial American complaint about German cars.

Consumers in general reported less trouble with 2002 models than they had in previous surveys: The overall industry average for problems per 100 vehicles declined by 12%, to 237 problems per 100 from 269 problems per 100 for 2001 models. Of vehicle models surveyed, 84% showed year-to-year improvements in reliability after three years, J.D. Power said in a statement.

In addition, the spread between the top-ranked brand (Lexus with 139 problems per 100 for 2002 models,) and the worst brand, (Kia with 397 problems per 100 models) narrowed by nearly 17% when compared with the 2004 edition of the study.

J.D. Power, a market-research and consulting unit of McGraw-Hill Cos., publishes several closely followed surveys compiling data from consumer surveys about vehicle quality and desirability. The Vehicle Dependability Study is particularly meaningful for auto makers and consumers, because reliability over the long term has a powerful influence on whether customers buy another vehicle from the same brand, says Chance Parker, the company's executive director of product and research analysis.

Vehicles with strong reputations for durability also tend to hold more value as they age, giving their owners more to bargain with at trade-in time. J.D. Power estimates that vehicles from brands that perform above the average on the Vehicle Dependability Study are worth about $1,000 more after three years on the road than vehicles from brands that score below the industry average.

The challenge for brands that haven't been as consistently strong as Lexus is that consumers tend to lock in their views about whether a vehicle brand can be trusted or not.

This is a particularly urgent problem for the old-line Detroit brands such as Chevrolet, Ford or Chrysler, which all suffered damage during the 1980s and 1990s from products that didn't measure up to the reliability standards set by the best of the Japanese manufacturers, Toyota and Honda Motor Co.

That quality deficit -- and executives at Detroit's Big Three say it is now more a matter of perception than reality -- is one reason why GM, Ford and Chrysler have to offer bigger discounts on many models than Toyota or Honda.

Mark LaNeve, head of GM's North American sales and marketing, said GM's string of good performances in J.D. Power quality and dependability studies should help the image of its brands. GM is putting a greater emphasis on quality in advertising for its Buick brand, and also in ads promoting its "Employee Discount for Everyone" sales promotion, which ends July 5. GM also is emphasizing that it has 20 models with highway fuel economy of 30 miles per gallon or better. "Those are the two perception gaps we have: the quality gap and the misperception on fuel economy," Mr. LaNeve said.

There was some good news for Ford: Its models led in five segments, including best "mid luxury car" for the 2002 Lincoln Town Car. That was a record for the auto maker. Toyota models led in four segments, including best entry luxury SUV for the Lexus RX 300.

"We know that there has historically been a gap between actual improvement and customer perceptions," said Deborah Coleman, Ford's vice president for global quality. "We can close that gap by accelerating the rate of improvement and more importantly ... that we consistently do well over time."

J.D. Power's Mr. Parker says Toyota and Honda haven't lost their edge. "One of the primary differences still between Toyota and Honda, and GM and Ford, is consistency," he says. Most vehicles from the two Japanese auto makers tend to do well on reliability measures, he says, where GM and Ford still have some vehicles that do poorly.

DaimlerChrysler's Chrysler brand improved its 2002-model scores by 50 points, or nearly 18%, to rank above average. Last year, Chrysler's 2001 models got below average dependability scores. DaimlerChrysler's 2002 Dodge and Jeep models still rank below average.

"As this is a glimpse at vehicles from the 2002 model year -- when many of our quality initiatives were just starting to be fully implemented -- we look forward to even greater strides in the study as the sampling moves further into our product line," Chrysler said in a statement.

Porsche, the German luxury sports-car maker, improved its ranking to No. 2 from No. 10 in the 2004 survey, as owners of 2002 Porsches reported 38% fewer problems per 100 vehicles.

Hyundai, which has undertaken a wide-ranging quality-improvement crusade in recent years, had the biggest reduction in problems reported by owners of its three-year-old models compared to a year ago. But Hyundai's overall score still ranked below the industry average of 237 problems per 100.


The Results

Vehicle dependability based on questionnaires sent to owners of 2002 model-year vehicles. The list ranks vehicle brands by the problems their owners reported per 100 vehicles.
Brand Problems per 100 vehicles
Lexus 139
Porsche 149
Lincoln 151
Buick 163
Cadillac 175
Infiniti 178
Toyota 194
Mercury 195
Honda 201
Acura 203
BMW 225
Ford 231
Chevrolet 232
Chrysler 235
INDUSTRY AVERAGE … 237
Saturn 240
Oldsmobile 242
GMC 245
Pontiac 245
Mazda 252
Hyundai 260
Subaru 260
Volvo 266
Jaguar 268
Dodge 273
Nissan 275
Mitsubishi 278
Mercedes-Benz 283
Saab 286
Jeep 289
Suzuki 292
Audi 312
Daewoo 318
Isuzu 331
Volkswagen 335
Mini 383
Land Rover 395
Kia 397

Source: J.D. Power and Associates
Top Three Vehicles per Segment

Compact Car*
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Prizm
Toyota ECHO
Toyota Prius

Entry Midsize Car
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Malibu
Oldsmobile Alero
Hyundai Sonata

Premium Midsize Car
Highest Ranked: Buick Century
Buick Regal
Toyota Avalon

Full-Size Car
Highest Ranked: Buick LeSabre
Ford Crown Victoria
Mercury Grand Marquis

Entry Luxury Car
Highest Ranked: Ford Thunderbird
Lincoln LS
Infiniti I35

Mid Luxury Car
Highest Ranked: Lincoln Town Car
Lexus GS 300/GS 430
Buick Park Avenue

Premium Luxury Car**
Highest Ranked: Lexus LS 430
Lexus SC 430
Cadillac Eldorado

Sporty Car
Highest Ranked: Mazda Miata
Chevrolet Camaro
Toyota MR2 Spyder

Premium Sports Car
Highest Ranked: Porsche 911
Honda S2000
Chevrolet Corvette

Midsize Van
Highest Ranked: Ford Windstar
Toyota Sienna
Mercury Villager

Full-Size Van
Highest Ranked: Ford E-Series
Chevrolet Express
Dodge Ram Van

Midsize Pickup
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet S-10 Pickup
GMC Sonoma
Toyota Tacoma

Light-Duty Full-Size Pickup
Highest Ranked: Cadillac Escalade EXT
Ford F-150 LD
Toyota Tundra

Heavy-Duty Full-Size Pickup
Highest Ranked: Chevrolet Silverado HD
Ford F-250/F-350 Super Duty
GMC Sierra HD

Entry SUV
Highest Ranked: Honda CR-V
Toyota RAV4
Jeep Liberty

Midsize SUV
Highest Ranked: Toyota 4Runner
Toyota Highlander
Ford Explorer (Total)

Full-Size SUV
Highest Ranked: GMC Yukon/Yukon XL
Ford Expedition (tie)
Toyota Sequoia (tie)

Entry Luxury SUV
Highest Ranked: Lexus RX 300
Acura MDX
Infiniti QX4

Premium Luxury SUV
Highest Ranked: Lexus LX 470
Cadillac Escalade (tie)
Lincoln Navigator (tie)

* Includes the Entry Compact Car and Premium Compact Car segments.

** Includes the Premium Luxury Car and Luxury Sport Car segments.

chill_dog

Saw that this morning...had a Malibu for 6 years...only had 2 problems with it. What's surprising is the number of GM and Ford cars at the top...they've always had one or two, but they seem to be everywhere now. Also, BMW's sudden lack of problems...very surprising...

elsensei

Hmm, interesting. Well, statistically at least Lexus is still #1 by a pretty big margin.

I had a 01 GS and now have a 05 TL. I think the biggest difference with Lexus is the quality of the materials. The leather in the GS was so nice and wore like a rock. The seats looked perfect after 35k miles. My TL already looks worse at only 9k.

It's not that the TL is bad it is just that it is a notch below the Lexus boys. To be expected with the price difference I guess.

california-usa

LOL! This thread sounds exactly like the stuff I get the hear everyday at a major airport where I work..."your people dont know how to talk to customers!"..."you guys dont know what good customer service is!"..."I am never going to fly again with your airline in my life!"...then a few days, weeks, months or even years later the same people that bitched so much about our service are once again flying with us...lol. Personally if I were to experience bad service from an Acura dealership I would not go to the extreem of changing car brands simply because of a few employees that really didn't give a s*** about what they were doing that day as bad service is everywhere regardless of what company one is dealing with and if we havent experienced it yet...its only a matter of time until you get that employee who is not having a good day and takes out his/her stress on you and vise-versa. This of course is not the way is should be but its just the way it is. From hourly employees to those so called "big shots"...run into them when they are not having a good day and chances are ( with a few exceptions ) you will get bad service. My mom owns a Lexus ES300 and most of the time she receives great service at our local Lexus dealer but the key word there is most because she has ran into several idiots ( to put is lightly ) at that dealership.

quake97

I totally agree with you about how you look. In my last year of college my parent's came into some money and offered to by me a car. I went car shopping with a friend of mine over Sprint Break. Let me tell you, the first day I wasn't dressed all that well and was treated like crap. I'm not talking about high end dealerships, more like Pontiac, Ford and Chevy. I felt like I was being treated as "some dumb kid trying to test drive a car for the hell of it."

It really pissed me off and I let some of the dealerships know that. I ended up leaving the town I was in, which has a ton of dealerships, and going elsewhere. I have a complex about the young vs. old(er) thing. It's amazing how differently you can be treated once someone knows how young you are.

Joe

chill_dog

I agree somewhat with this. While, in general, ndx2's observations are on the money, it's not always the case. I always dress like a bum on my time...don't shave, look tired, etc. Every dealer I went to to look at cars treated me much like you and ndx2 describe...EXCEPT the Acura dealer! Maybe because the guy was young, maybe because he is one of the truly nice people regardless of who you are, who knows? I was quite impressed with his attitude towards me, toward the fact I wasn't buying a car for 5 months, etc...hell of a lot better reception than I received at the Lexus dealer!

Precision Crafted

I would have to agree!

Here in Wichita, KS Chuck Warren is the best! Service is always top notch and he is very upfront about the cost and any issues about Acura. Now I will say that my local dealer sales Mercedes, Jag, and Porsche along side Acura. And we all know how those customers want to be treated so Acura just beifits from it.

With all that being said, I wander what happen to Acura service in general. In the early beginnings of the company, Acura had the best dealerships and service around.

And with the talk of Lexus, Infiniti's service is suppose to be better then Lexus'.