hey guys, just looking for some advice on how to handle this.

i bought a 2007 Acura TL-S from a dealership this past june.

i have a couple concerns.

according to car fax reports, and the dealership, this car had never been in an accident.

this past weekend, i had the rear bumper removed. i noticed that the rear bumper had been previously replaced with a red bumper, then repainted black to match the car. this worries me. also, the rear bumper reinforcement bar is bent, showing signs of rear damage. it takes a lot to bend these bars, this tells me that the car was hit from behind, and never reported to insurance or car fax.

the trunk has also been replaced. after removing the bumper, i removed the trunk lid lining to see the same story, not the original trunk lid. both of these items were most likely damaged in the accident, and then replaced but never reported.

the rear bumper and trunk were repainted, and now some clear is showing through in the body lines and grooves where the peices meet and connect. this will fade and only get worse over time.

everything else on the car checks out great, this is the only thing that my mechanic n body shop guy were able to find on the vehicle. and trust me, they checked EVERYTHING.

so what do i do here? am i shit out of luck, or should i try to contact the dealership and see what they can do?

for all i know, the dealership had no idea the rear bumper was replaced. i am giving them the benefit of doubt at this point.

i'm open to any and all suggestions...

 

What is it you want to do? Have the car replaced? Get some sort of refund? Have the car repaired (which it already is)? Get the accident documented in Carfax?

You can try taking the car back to the dealership, but not sure what they can do for you.

 

^i'd like to get the truth of the cars history, as well as anything else that i may be missing.

and yes, i'd like to get the clear repaired properly so it doesn't keep cracking and widening over time.

i realize i don't have many options here, seeing as how i already bought the car. i just feel like i was misinformed and lied to. and yes, i i know that is what stealerships are known for.

 

Sorry to hear about this.

Perfect example why I would never buy a used car without having a mechanic/bodyshop do an inspection.

I don't think you will have any recourse. The dealer is not going to openly admit that they lied. On the other side of the coin, if it's not in the Carfax why should the dealer know about it?

Did you buy it CPO? If yes, I think you have a better leg to stand on.

Good luck.

 

I think you're SOL, not that it really makes any difference: The car runs good and you're happy with it's appearance (with the exception of the clear coat).

The only recourse you'd have would be if you could prove the dealership knew the car had been repaired and even then, you'd have to prove that they lied to you about it (something in writing you both signed saying the car had never been in an accident).

Then, assuming you could prove all of the above, probably the only thing you could recoup would be the "diminished value" difference in price.

You could try asking for them to fix the clear coat based on the situation (i.e. you both got duped) and maybe they will fix it out of dealer courtesy...

 

Was the car leased? The thing with leased cars is that a lot of times people who crash them don't report them and get it repaired quickly so they don't have to pay any extra lease fees. My car was leased and the carfax was clean but when I removed my front bumper I noticed one of my headlights was way outta place and held on by drilling screws in random places, my grill was held on by zip ties, the absorber was missing, and the beam was bent and my bumper wasn't oem.

But what can you do, find out which owner of the car did it and yell at them?

 

i did have the car inspected in n out before i bought it. we just now found out the rear bumper was replaced, when we were installing my new tails. it is hard to see the red...whoever did it did a decent job repainting the bumper according to my paint guy. both my mechanic n body guy said the car is in excellent shape on both sides of the spectrum, minus this rear bumper news i just got...

car wasn't CPO, but i did buy the extended warranty for a more than fair price in case anything does happen down the line.

yeah the clear is the only thing that really bothers me. you can't even see the clear cracks until you disassemble body parts, where the rear bumper meets the quarter panels. when the vehicle is intact, you can't hardly see anything unless you slam your face into it.

lol...yeah i wish i could find the previous owner and kick him in the face...but what're you gonna do?

the car was a lease from 07 until now, had 35k on the odo when i bought it in june.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

i do realize that when buying a used car, one can expect a few things here n there. i guess i'm not too upset about it, to the point where i'll loose sleep.

it's just, when one shells out thousands of dollars for a car, it sucks to find something like this.

not the end of the world, at this point i'm just going to try and have the clear taken care of. that will continue to only get worse over time.

all in all, everything else is perfect. sorry for bitching, just wanted to vent out to some fellow TL owners and get some advice. thanks guys

 

I'd say it's better than finding out down the road it was in a flood. Just looking on the bright side. All in all I think you got a good TL. Whoever did the repairs/painting did a good job of it.

 

If it's CPO (as ggesq mentioned) the dealership should fix any issues with the paint. I purchased a 2008 Type-S, and the carfax showed it had been in a mild rear-collision. The salesmen explained that for the car to have been certified, the damage would have had to been superficial, genuine parts used in replacement, and that any issues with the repair work (including paint) would be covered by the CPO. (Of course, that's what a sales guy told me, so I'd take it with a grain of salt). But if it was sold as a certified pre-owned, the warranty should cover the any issues with the car as it was sold to you (replacement bumper, etc).

Certified or not, the previous accident would have affected the resale value of the car, but there's no way to tell whether the dealership knew about it or not. I'm not sure what legal action could be taken (if any). Personally I'd be happy if the dealership took the responsibility and fixed any issues related to the prior accident (paint, etc.).

(Then again, I know people have different views on cars and some would refuse to purchase a car that's been in an accident, no matter how minor. For my car, I was on a budget... the car was about to go to wholesale, and I was happy with the price I got. On the other hand, I knew that the car had been damaged when I was signing the paperwork...)


EDIT: Was typing this before your last response. If I were in that position, I'd take advantage of the purchased extended warranty and make them fix any issues with the paint you found (although I'd check the work of whichever bodyshop they use so you don't end up worse off than you started...)

 

Man sorry to here that, I am having an inspection done on a TL-S I am looking at buying tomorrow. That is one of my concerns. The inspection is really as good as the person that inspects the vehicle.

What does carfax offer as far as their guarantee?

 

Most of the time like in my case if I had hail damage, or a fender bender or scratches I would find the prats and have them painted and not go through insurance which means that the carfax would never know because I did all the work myself. The carfax only shows insurance and dealer fixes.

 

At a minimum I would tell the dealer what's wrong with the car to scare them a little. They may be totally innocent but they need to know they sold you a wrecked car for an unwrecked car price. And definately get the paint fixed for free.

 

Man sorry to hear that. Before my TL I had a 2001 Acura CL TypeS which I bought CPO. Shortly after I bought it I was hearing a rattle from the rear. Brought it in they kept it 2 days I get a call and I'm told the car had been in an accident and the passenger seatbelt mechanism wasn't secured properly causing the rattle. I was very mad but as mentioned above... What can they do? It's not in any records and their awesome inspection checked out. Atleast in the next 70k or so miles during which I had the car they were very good about fixing my problems (I did have one transmission replaced on it) and some other random rattle fixes.
I wish you the best with the car, and hope it won't be plagued with issues, but i since lowered my expectation standards for s CPO car. (thouugh I still like the extra warranty it comes with)

 

I think you're SOL too. Caveat Emptor.



This is your best bet:

 

This

 

thanks for all the input everyone.

i've sent my service rep an email regarding this. he responds with:

"I'm sorry that this has happened. We look over our vehicles very well and I assure you we didn't notice anything you mentioned. I will pass this along to my managers and they should be contacting you soon to resolve these issues."

...so i guess i'll wait and see. who knows, maybe they'll help me out. i''ll keep you all posted on the outcome.

 

 

Carfax has a "Buyback Guarantee", in which you register your vehicle with Carfax within 90 days of purchase. The coverage is from 1 year of the first Carfax report run by the 'Claimant' (you). Summary:

Page: http://www.carfax.com/manifest/bbg/termsConditions.cfx

In short, it doesn't mention minor body repair (although I'm not sure the extent of Shark's previous damage, and what falls under the 'rebuilt or reconstructed' clause).

I wasn't aware of the option to register your car after purchase with them... it's free and you can do it on their website (although when I google'd 'Carfax Guarantee' there seemed to be a lot of results with unhappy claimants). I'm outside of my 90 days but at least it's good info to know to pass along to family and friends.


Anyway, good luck with the service managers.

 

Carfax is useless. My wife's Mazda 6 was in $9K accident for which Geico paid. The whole car was painted except for the roof. When we traded it recently, the Carfax was 100% clean.

 

the extent of the damage isn't bad at all, just enough to piss me off. i guess maybe i'm being a little bitch about it all...

those metal reinforcement bars are sturdy as hell, so i know it takes a lot of force to bend one.

think of the bar as one long peice with 4 identical design'd sections in the middle. well, 1 of those sections shows minor damage. looks like a minor fender bender. my buddy and i first noticed something might be wrong when the rear bumper first came off. the metal brackets that hold the top of the bumper in place (near the bottom of the trunk) didn't match up 100%. the one on the left wasn't straight like the opposite one. then we saw the minor damage on the bar.

 

I dunno how strong those reinforcement bars really are. I got tapped pretty lightly in the rear right corner. We were both moving and mine needed to be straightened. Only other damage was the bumper cover which was replaced and painted. No damage to the trunk or fender or any other body parts and yet the reinforcement bar needed straightening.

 

Completely useless to the OP. This is ONLY a "clean" title guarantee. Just because a car gets ina accident doesn't mean it's automatically a "salvage" title or "rebuild" title or other "branded" title.

Most times, they are not. They're just repaired vehicles with NO title implications.

 

I'm curious; when you bought the vehicle did you check to make sure that all the body panels had the VIN tags on them during the inspection?

The OEM bumper and trunk lid (all body panels for that matter) should have VIN tags on if they're original; if these were replaced you might have a more solid leg to stand on.

 

that's actually reassuring. makes me think maybe this might have been a very minor accident. or possibly no accident at all...something like this could've very well happened during transportation or the alike.

indeed.

well we didn't disassemble the entire car before i bought it if that's what your asking. we were checking for mechanical issues, paint issues, etc etc.

looking back, yeah i wish i had torn the car apart before i bought it...but i didnt, and here we are.

the trunk lid and bumper were most def replaced.

 

I agree, I was answering jheck's question about Carfax's guarantee. Even if Shark had ended up with a salvage title, Carfax wouldn't have done anything for him since he (I assume) did not register his car with them within 90 days of purchase. So no, it doesn't really help the OP, but might help others when purchasing used cars if they know to register.


Anyway, I hope you get everything worked out, Shark.

 

My Tl is clean according to Carfax. I bought it new and since then it's had a tree fall on it in a parking lot, a city truck back into it in a parking lot (rear quarter panel cut out and replaced), a garbage truck hit it (other rear quarter cut out and replaced), rear ended while parked, the entire side keyed when it was brand new, etc. I had the ABS trigger for absolutely no reason as I was slowing for a corner at a completely normal rate and hit a curb. Subframe was replaced for that one along with the steering rack and a few other things. I went through insurance for every one of them and my Carfax is still clean.

 

Sorry to hear this man. I bought CPO and still have some lingering issues from delivery. Acura won't fix the calipers the previous owner painted, but openly state they will walk away from warranty if they think the paint were to cause the calipers to fail. Thats just one of a number of "mods" the previous owner (who hails from the bronx) did to this poor car. My first inclination was to somehow get the dealer to take the car back, but after thinking it over I decided to keep it because it's still a sweet car, and like a wounded animal, it needs someone responsible to take care of it.

If you ever want to meet up and just talk TL, or just hear my horror story, let me know. I won't drive my TL-S on the streets of Baltimore though.

 

thats encouraging!

after talking more with my buddy, the vast majority of used cars do not have original parts for one reason or another. shit happens all the time that are out of our control. you can be the most OCD out of control prick about your car, and still have some asshole back into you, or have a tree fall on your roof. shit happens. what're you gonna do?

yeah like i said, everything else on the car is pristine. seems like the car was very well taken care of by the previous owner. also, i have a feeling the dealership is going to help me out with this. i'll know more soon.

yeah i'm down to meet up whenever, always nice to have a fellow TL owner to hang with. what's wrong with baltimore streets??? oh wait, everything.

i just moved from fed hill down to towson. no more double parking for this cowboy!

 

Carfax only is only good as a starting point. Insurance companies do not report to Carfax..only some police departments and municipalities do. I have gone through a couple hundred reports over the past 2 years.

$34.99 for a single report is expensive if you had to buy one.

Not much recourse with dealer if they did not state in writing that the car was accident free. I got my dealer to state in writing my CPO was accident free.

Checking VIN's on Acura body parts, mechanical and visual inspection by a nick picking mechanic is a MUST, it would also help if you or the mechanic has access to a paint depth guage to measure every painted body part to look for paintwork.

You can try for some "goodwill" repair(s) from the dealer.

 

Does the the trunk lid have the vin sticker on it? When I was looking at cars to buy I saw one that had a VIN sticker but you couldn't see the number there. I was wondering if replacement parts have a blank sticker or if the number was just worn off of it. On that car I walked because the dealer wanted too much for it.

 

Yep, it's on a sticker on the inside passenger side lip.

That was an excellent point brought up by PeterTheFish to check for VIN tags on body parts when inspecting a used car.. It's something I had forgotten about. For any car that's been in a head on or read end collision, chances are the hood or trunk lid may have been replaced.

 

No need to tear anything down. The VIN stickers for all 4 doors, hood, trunk, and both bumpers are outwardly visible if you know where to look and quick to find even if you don't; take a look on your car tomorrow. If these stickers are present but no VIN, the panel has been replaced, and mismatched VIN means junkyard takeoff. Likewise, even if a panel was completely removed for repaint (meaning no telltale paint lines that normally would indicate a repaint), the VIN sticker will either be painted over or show some indications of a repaint.

This may be closing the door after the horse is out, but a good tip for any shopper. Went through this several times when I was shopping; saw several CPOs with repainted or replaced rear bumpers (probably to fix mismatched bumpers due to paint fade) and a few with repainted door panels. I was told by a sales person that they can still CPO as long as 3 or fewer body panels had been repainted.

 

yeah i know each panel has a vin sticker. the rear bumper has a label, but painted over so i can't tell if it's original, aftermarket, or replacement. the trunk lid has a sticker as well, same story with the bumper.

i'm expecting a call from the dealership today...we shall see.

 

ok well after some calls here n there. talked to my sales rep and his manager that i dealt with originally when i purchased the car.

as expected, there isn't much of anything they can do about it. they had no idea it had different body parts.

a maryland inspection is a safety inspection. they make sure everything is operating correctly and everything is up to code. they don't check body parts.

but...after enough bitching, they're giving me a slight dealer courtesy and said i can ride up to their dealership to get the car detailed anytime i want.

meh...win? idk, better than nothing.

 

Until you start reading about dealer detail horror stroies.

Sorry to rain on your parade, but there is a reason a lot of people leave specific instructions with the dealer that say "Do NOT Wash".

 

oh yeah, i know all about the no-no policy when having a dealer wash your car. especially mine, being black.

when i purchased the car, they had it detailed the morning i arrived and it looked spectacular. i mean, really really good.

still...i am leary to have them even touch my car. i probably won't end up using them for anything, as they are over an hour away from me.

 

SB, glad you got to the bottom of it.
I learned lots from this thread and i'll be on the look out for future used car.

 

np, justin.

all in all, this isn't that big of a deal. i guess i'm just a freak about my car and want everything to be perfect. but in the grand scheme of things, a lot of used cars have had something replaced. whether it be a rear bumper, or something much worse. i absolutely love my TL, i am not harshened by this experience whatsoever.

 

Im gonna go home and check all my vin #'s.

 

That's good. You're obviously bright/mature/reasonable enough to realize that a car that's been in a fender bender isn't automatically a bad car.

I'd had my '10 Camry repmobile less than 10 days when some ditz in a school zone "rear ended" (i.e. bumped) me. Had to have the bumper cover and a few bits replaced. No effect on the overall car whatsoever.