What is VTEC, glad you asked!!
What is VTEC, glad you asked!!
The following 12 users liked this post by Shipit:
Acura_Dude (05-21-2012),
AyFeltaTL (05-21-2012),
BrownBuck (05-21-2012),
Bulbanovich (11-06-2012),
JD TL-S (05-23-2012),
and 7 others liked this post.
The following users liked this post:
Shipit (05-21-2012)
The following users liked this post:
Shipit (05-21-2012)
05-21-2012, 01:06 PM
#5
That's a classic ignorant statement made by power lovers.
With all-motor, there is no lag whatsoever. This is the characteristic of all-motor. All VTEC does is allow for a longer flatter torque curve with a higher operating rpm (more power per liter). Exact opposite of turbo. No delay from whatsoever from putting your foot-down to accelerating hard. It doesn't build torque half-way through the rpm either like a turbo.
Don't be a wanker.
Now numbers aside, which one has the better torque curve and which one has the lag? Think of the torque line as being your acceleration. You can clearly see the delay in the turbo as it takes time to build boost. And then it's already falling off quite steep right afterward. The All motor car is full acceleration almost all the way across with only a gentle taper at the upper rpm.
B18C5 VTEC all motor:
B18A Non-VTEC turbo:
With all-motor, there is no lag whatsoever. This is the characteristic of all-motor. All VTEC does is allow for a longer flatter torque curve with a higher operating rpm (more power per liter). Exact opposite of turbo. No delay from whatsoever from putting your foot-down to accelerating hard. It doesn't build torque half-way through the rpm either like a turbo.
Don't be a wanker.
Now numbers aside, which one has the better torque curve and which one has the lag? Think of the torque line as being your acceleration. You can clearly see the delay in the turbo as it takes time to build boost. And then it's already falling off quite steep right afterward. The All motor car is full acceleration almost all the way across with only a gentle taper at the upper rpm.
B18C5 VTEC all motor:
B18A Non-VTEC turbo:
Last edited by 94eg!; 05-21-2012 at 01:09 PM.
The following 3 users liked this post by 94eg!:
The following users liked this post:
Shipit (05-21-2012)
05-21-2012, 02:32 PM
#7
Instructor
who doesnt like power?
touchy much? its a joke mang. and wether you like it or not, in general, its a true statement. there is always exceptions, but theres only a few vtec motors that really get with the program off the line like a properly designed boosted setup. by properly, I mean not a drag race specific design.
call me a wanker all you want. been playing with both for a long time. while I absolutly love a well built b18c (nothing gets my blood going like a bulit gsr at 10k at an autox and never needing second gear), but my b16 with ctr pistons and crower stage 2 cams (and many other well sorted mods) has absolutly nothing till 5500. mother fucking NOTHING. however, from 5500 to 8500 shes a beast and a ton of fun, but waiting for the fun is frustrating as all hell, especially when my last setup was a fully built gsr that revved to the moon. are they the best cams for the setup? maybe not, but b16's are pretty boring after having a gsr.
both can be built, if you know what your doing, to be fun across the board. our last boosted ls was at full boost by 2300 rpm's (13lbs). put 260hp and 250tq. had power everywhere. moreso then we could provide a footprint for.
please dont play me to be a n/a hater, cause I love n/a builds and thats all Ive ran since 06, but hit me up here in the next few months when my boosted awd d-series is done and ask me which I like better, lol.
touchy much? its a joke mang. and wether you like it or not, in general, its a true statement. there is always exceptions, but theres only a few vtec motors that really get with the program off the line like a properly designed boosted setup. by properly, I mean not a drag race specific design.
call me a wanker all you want. been playing with both for a long time. while I absolutly love a well built b18c (nothing gets my blood going like a bulit gsr at 10k at an autox and never needing second gear), but my b16 with ctr pistons and crower stage 2 cams (and many other well sorted mods) has absolutly nothing till 5500. mother fucking NOTHING. however, from 5500 to 8500 shes a beast and a ton of fun, but waiting for the fun is frustrating as all hell, especially when my last setup was a fully built gsr that revved to the moon. are they the best cams for the setup? maybe not, but b16's are pretty boring after having a gsr.
both can be built, if you know what your doing, to be fun across the board. our last boosted ls was at full boost by 2300 rpm's (13lbs). put 260hp and 250tq. had power everywhere. moreso then we could provide a footprint for.
please dont play me to be a n/a hater, cause I love n/a builds and thats all Ive ran since 06, but hit me up here in the next few months when my boosted awd d-series is done and ask me which I like better, lol.
Trending Topics
05-21-2012, 02:57 PM
#8
Wait I'm confused. Your first (joking) statement implied VTEC had lag. But your only instance of "VTEC lag" is on a low displacement B16 race engine that's been customized for high rpm output. Of course low & mid range are gonna suck.
I'm just saying that variable valve timing is the only way to go these days. Weather all motor, turbo or supercharged. It flattens the torque curve, extends the rpm range, increase the output w/o increasing displacement (better fuel economy), allows for shorter gearing (more torque to the wheels), and provides stable usable street-ability. What more could you ask for from an engine.
My point wasn't that VTEC is better than boost. My point is that VTEC is better than no-VTEC (for the reasons previously mentioned). I guess a better comparison would be this: Which is better, Turbo B18A...or...Turbo B18C?
Bottom line: VTEC makes everything better. I put that shit on my Cheerios's every morning!
I'm just saying that variable valve timing is the only way to go these days. Weather all motor, turbo or supercharged. It flattens the torque curve, extends the rpm range, increase the output w/o increasing displacement (better fuel economy), allows for shorter gearing (more torque to the wheels), and provides stable usable street-ability. What more could you ask for from an engine.
My point wasn't that VTEC is better than boost. My point is that VTEC is better than no-VTEC (for the reasons previously mentioned). I guess a better comparison would be this: Which is better, Turbo B18A...or...Turbo B18C?
Bottom line: VTEC makes everything better. I put that shit on my Cheerios's every morning!
The following 6 users liked this post by 94eg!:
Acura_Dude (05-21-2012),
Bearcat94 (05-21-2012),
justnspace (05-21-2012),
Ken1997TL (05-22-2012),
LaJay007 (05-22-2012),
and 1 others liked this post.
05-21-2012, 03:30 PM
#9
Instructor
The following 5 users liked this post by 94eg!:
JD TL-S (05-23-2012),
justnspace (05-21-2012),
riomp300 (05-22-2012),
shenrie (05-21-2012),
Shipit (05-21-2012)
05-21-2012, 03:36 PM
#12
Race Director
iTrader: (3)
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: South Florida
Age: 31
Posts: 18,278
Received 3,824 Likes
on
2,847 Posts
05-21-2012, 04:12 PM
#13
Instructor
and wernt they the first?
lmao, i have a bunch of bmw purists that are gonna love that video. much appreciated
i think one of the better vtec rides I had was in a nissan (forget what tehy call their version). sr20ve(?) with the 1.6 cams. fucker got with the program and was louder than any honda vtec.
lmao, i have a bunch of bmw purists that are gonna love that video. much appreciated
i think one of the better vtec rides I had was in a nissan (forget what tehy call their version). sr20ve(?) with the 1.6 cams. fucker got with the program and was louder than any honda vtec.
Last edited by shenrie; 05-21-2012 at 04:15 PM.
05-21-2012, 05:15 PM
#14
AZ Community Team
Join Date: May 2007
Location: N35°03'16.75", W 080°51'0.9"
Posts: 32,488
Received 7,771 Likes
on
4,342 Posts
Here's another quick, simple explaination of how the VTEC system works:
05-21-2012, 08:26 PM
#15
Team Owner
iTrader: (2)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Kansas City, MO (Overland Park, KS)
Posts: 36,545
Received 6,470 Likes
on
5,162 Posts
Good video, for sure.
Now maybe he can tell us what TL, RL, TSX, MDX and NSX all really stand for too.
Now maybe he can tell us what TL, RL, TSX, MDX and NSX all really stand for too.
The following 2 users liked this post by Steven Bell:
Bearcat94 (05-21-2012),
SharksBreath (05-22-2012)
05-21-2012, 09:17 PM
#16
NSX means "New Sports Experimental"
TSX means "Touring Sportscar eXperimental"
CRX means "Civic Renaissance Experimental"
CRZ means "Compact Renaissance Zero"
RSX means "Rally Sport Experimental"
MDX means "Multi-Dimensional Crossover"
Some of those are unofficial (RSX, TSX & MDX)
TSX means "Touring Sportscar eXperimental"
CRX means "Civic Renaissance Experimental"
CRZ means "Compact Renaissance Zero"
RSX means "Rally Sport Experimental"
MDX means "Multi-Dimensional Crossover"
Some of those are unofficial (RSX, TSX & MDX)
Last edited by 94eg!; 05-21-2012 at 09:24 PM.
05-21-2012, 09:21 PM
#17
Touring luxury
Road luxury
Rally sport experimental
Multi dimensional experimental
New sport experimental
However I have no idea what the S stands for in any type-S. I'd just assume 'sport"?
Road luxury
Rally sport experimental
Multi dimensional experimental
New sport experimental
However I have no idea what the S stands for in any type-S. I'd just assume 'sport"?
Last edited by 1black_seven; 05-21-2012 at 09:23 PM.
05-21-2012, 09:30 PM
#18
Team Owner
Vtec is pretty outdated. Every other manufacturer, even your average Ford F-150 have a better version. Honda is the only one I'm aware of with the on-off type. Most are variable and the driver doesn't know it's there. Somewhere along the way between the small cam and big cam, you're missing out on power. Most use DOHC and the variable cam phasing that it allows to do some neat things like eliminate the EGR valve by varying overlap which accomplishes the same thing.
Vtec gives you the low end and emissions of a small cammed engine and the top end of a large cammed engine. We've all heard a built V8 with a big lope at idle due to the huge cam. Vtec gives you the same thing (a big "cam") but without the lope. An old large displacement V8 can afford to give up a little low end torque because it has so much to begin with. Your typical Honda 4 banger does not so they use vtec to keep the torque. The downside is it's still NA lol.
Modern turbochargers properly sized fatten the power band nearly from idle to redline. Obviously if you throw a huge turbo on a tiny 1.6L 4 banger you might have lag issues. My 4.2L V6 made peak torque at 2,900rpm and peak hp at 5,500rpm. Keep in mind, that's well over 700lbs of torque at the flywheel if it was manufacturer rated. Peak torque with a turbo car will be at whatever rpm the turbo can hit full boost with rare exception. My car made it at 2,900rpm because that's what the converter flashes to at full boost. It probably would have made it much lower if I had a tighter converter.
Take a 335 or 911 turbo. They make peak torque at 1,200rpm and 1,500rpm or something like that and pull all the way to redline because the turbos are sized very well. That's one huge ass powerband. A 500 cube big block would have trouble making that kind of torque that low in the rev range.
There really is nothing that will give you a fat power band like a turbo will, assuming it's sized right. No V6 on the planet is going to put out 700lbs of torque on gasoline without a turbo at any rpm much less at a usable rpm. That's not to say I don't remember the old days when turbo technology was non existent and running a crazy 4,500rpm converter on the street or nitrous to spool the turbo. There are still exceptions, small displacement engines with huge turbos can be a handful but I think that's one of the advantages to running a turbo car through the '90s, learning all of the tricks to getting it to spool which can still be applied today when it needs to be.
Vtec gives you the low end and emissions of a small cammed engine and the top end of a large cammed engine. We've all heard a built V8 with a big lope at idle due to the huge cam. Vtec gives you the same thing (a big "cam") but without the lope. An old large displacement V8 can afford to give up a little low end torque because it has so much to begin with. Your typical Honda 4 banger does not so they use vtec to keep the torque. The downside is it's still NA lol.
Modern turbochargers properly sized fatten the power band nearly from idle to redline. Obviously if you throw a huge turbo on a tiny 1.6L 4 banger you might have lag issues. My 4.2L V6 made peak torque at 2,900rpm and peak hp at 5,500rpm. Keep in mind, that's well over 700lbs of torque at the flywheel if it was manufacturer rated. Peak torque with a turbo car will be at whatever rpm the turbo can hit full boost with rare exception. My car made it at 2,900rpm because that's what the converter flashes to at full boost. It probably would have made it much lower if I had a tighter converter.
Take a 335 or 911 turbo. They make peak torque at 1,200rpm and 1,500rpm or something like that and pull all the way to redline because the turbos are sized very well. That's one huge ass powerband. A 500 cube big block would have trouble making that kind of torque that low in the rev range.
There really is nothing that will give you a fat power band like a turbo will, assuming it's sized right. No V6 on the planet is going to put out 700lbs of torque on gasoline without a turbo at any rpm much less at a usable rpm. That's not to say I don't remember the old days when turbo technology was non existent and running a crazy 4,500rpm converter on the street or nitrous to spool the turbo. There are still exceptions, small displacement engines with huge turbos can be a handful but I think that's one of the advantages to running a turbo car through the '90s, learning all of the tricks to getting it to spool which can still be applied today when it needs to be.
05-22-2012, 12:18 AM
#21
Team Owner
05-23-2012, 10:23 AM
#28
10th Gear
Join Date: Jun 2007
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
05-23-2012, 11:24 AM
#29
Instructor
ahem...no mistake. the 1990's were in the 1900's. saying the 1900's covers all years 1900-1999. it was a dig at myself about my age, but you guys are over thinking it, lol.
The following users liked this post:
Undying Dreams (05-23-2012)
05-23-2012, 02:51 PM
#31
Race Director
iTrader: (8)
05-23-2012, 05:18 PM
#32
Safety Car
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Northern ILLINOIS
Age: 62
Posts: 4,848
Received 133 Likes
on
129 Posts
Awesome Info 
Thankyou
When I had an 07 Civic Si the VTECH would kick in at 6,000 RPMs and WOW what a Huge difference. On the 3 TLs I have owned I couldnt tell when VTECH kicked in.
Great Video
Thankyou When I had an 07 Civic Si the VTECH would kick in at 6,000 RPMs and WOW what a Huge difference. On the 3 TLs I have owned I couldnt tell when VTECH kicked in.
Great Video
05-23-2012, 05:37 PM
#33
My favorite application of Vtec so far is the DOHC system in the Civic. My bud's stock Si pulls like a Mofo when he hits that engagement point because of the DOHC. My Type-S always pulls hard, but I'd love to feel that "kick" that a few have mentioned every time I hit the engagement point, rather than just some intake noise. Our cars are way too damn factory quiet anyway.
Last edited by AirForceFX; 05-23-2012 at 05:42 PM. Reason: GRAMMARRRRRRRR
The following users liked this post:
shenrie (05-23-2012)
05-23-2012, 06:07 PM
#34
Team Owner
Having vtec only on the intake side is part of the reason for not having as big of a kick in the back in the TL. Decent power before vtec and weight are reasons as well. I still have trouble feeling a change even in tbe Civic Si. It goes from really slow to just slow lol.
05-23-2012, 07:09 PM
#35
You are one of my favorite people on this forum so far. All these guys keep trying to poo on you and you're just shrugging off the hate.
My favorite application of Vtec so far is the DOHC system in the Civic. My bud's stock Si pulls like a Mofo when he hits that engagement point because of the DOHC. My Type-S always pulls hard, but I'd love to feel that "kick" that a few have mentioned every time I hit the engagement point, rather than just some intake noise. Our cars are way too damn factory quiet anyway.
My favorite application of Vtec so far is the DOHC system in the Civic. My bud's stock Si pulls like a Mofo when he hits that engagement point because of the DOHC. My Type-S always pulls hard, but I'd love to feel that "kick" that a few have mentioned every time I hit the engagement point, rather than just some intake noise. Our cars are way too damn factory quiet anyway.
But then I guess then kids wouldn't buy Si's anymore. VEEE-TAAAAKKKKK!!!
BTW: Nobody is hatin' on anybody.
Last edited by 94eg!; 05-23-2012 at 07:13 PM.
The following users liked this post:
I hate cars (05-23-2012)
05-23-2012, 07:13 PM
#36
Team Owner
That kick you feel is seriously just a marketing gimick setup by Honda that actually causes you to loose mid range torque/power. They've set the crossover too high to create that sudden torque jump at the changeover. It has nothing to do with DOHC or anything like that. By purposely lowering the VTEC crossover to smooth out the kick, you will recover lost mid-range, eliminate the silly sudden jump in torque, and remove all the "fail" from the setup.
But then I guess then kids wouldn't buy Si's anymore. VEEE-TAAAAKKKKK!!!
But then I guess then kids wouldn't buy Si's anymore. VEEE-TAAAAKKKKK!!!
05-23-2012, 09:05 PM
#38
That kick you feel is seriously just a marketing gimick setup by Honda that actually causes you to loose mid range torque/power. They've set the crossover too high to create that sudden torque jump at the changeover. It has nothing to do with DOHC or anything like that. By purposely lowering the VTEC crossover to smooth out the kick, you will recover lost mid-range, eliminate the silly sudden jump in torque, and remove all the "fail" from the setup.
But then I guess then kids wouldn't buy Si's anymore. VEEE-TAAAAKKKKK!!!
BTW: Nobody is hatin' on anybody.
But then I guess then kids wouldn't buy Si's anymore. VEEE-TAAAAKKKKK!!!
BTW: Nobody is hatin' on anybody.
Just making sure...seems to be a rather aggressive movement against a fellow broski...
05-23-2012, 10:49 PM
#39
Instructor
^^^ thanks for the kind words Airforce, but I have a fuct up sense of humor that not everyone gets. I catch hell everywhere I go. aint no thang.
Ive only had to move vtec up when ive installed agressive cams. with stocker cams, its usually better to go down, uh hu hu hu.
Ive only had to move vtec up when ive installed agressive cams. with stocker cams, its usually better to go down, uh hu hu hu.
05-23-2012, 11:03 PM
#40
dude i new to this site i just got a acura cl 1997 2.2 vtec 5spd and i was actually wondering what it means thanks. i would of never guessed what the hell that means i have been looking into honda and ended up getting the better honda/acura