Wildcat Jon

I have an early build 2004 and have documented the vibration issues with both the dealer and ACS on numerous occasions. I had vibration back in Jan 2004 with the original EL42s, the same issue with the 50-60 and then 70 and up vibration, with both EL42s, the "recompounded" EL42s and now even with the LS-Zs. After a recent rotation of the tires, it is even worse.

I loved the car even before it was available, have told everyone how awesome a value it is, etc., and now . . . I find myself upset with my decision. Heck, I purchased the Acura for reliability vs. BMW. Now I'm kicking myself for buying a first year build.

However, I will pursue this vigorously. Lemon laws in Ohio are very consumer-friendly -- 3 times and no fix, you have a lemon. I've had 3 sets of tires, 4 times into the dealer, 2 times into Bridgestone, and no fix. ACS will not return phone calls or faxes.

I know many have had these issues. If I did this correctly, you can check the poll out anonymously. Thanks.

rets

https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=90614

vp911

Just to point out something - those won a case and had the car bought back probably arn't hanging around much on teh TL forum - so it will bias your answers.

Good luck though !

Wildcat Jon

Good point vik. From doing searches on the boards, I have informally counted about 4-5 who have gotten repurchases/refunds and 1 who got a new 2005. One who lost.

vp911

Yup - but, if you are going to go the lemon route, there are probably other people on the boards who have had other cars repurchased under the lemon law. I made a thread some time ago about my experience with Infiniti and that can possibly help you out - and if you havea ny questions I can try to answer them. (http://www.acurakid.com/blank.html has my lemon crap)

On a side note - One of my poli sci classes we are simulating congress and the congressman I am "playing" is big on consumer protection - I rewrote the lemon law and made it a federal law. It's only 230 pages long .

rets

More... I will try to PM them and inform them of this thread.

Wildcat Jon

Thanks Rets.

sftroy

I'm still here Vik... but I agree with your comment.

need4spd

Vik, I am still here also.

As for my TL, Acura bought it back voluntarily due to this issue, only had it for 3 months. I did not start talking about it on this forum until I saw many with the very same problem a year later (and 1 model year later).

I voted in the poll, but mine does not really apply to the questions, I said that "Complained but resolved to your satisfaction " (they didn't fix it, or even try to, they just bought it back, no swap offered either)

pearl04

Hopefully I will be able to join you guys. Talked with lawyer today......Acura responded to complaint........waiting on court date. From the conversation, it sounds very positive. I suggest to anyone that has vibration problems to call a lemon law attorney.

Lore

For those of you that have gone the lemon law route - did you have to actually have the dealer/tech confirm the issue, or did you just need to report it three or four times? I would think that from a lemon law court case perspective, there is a fine line between complaining about a problem that you believe exists vs. complaining about a problem that the dealer confirms exists but does not want to fix.

Also, how are you guys paying for your attorneys? Are they on retainer, contingency, or what?

I ask because I'm getting really annoyed with this steering wheel vibration that I've been experiencing while in gear at a stoplight - it keeps getting worse and has been reported 4 times now.

pearl04

I can't speak for everyone, but I've been having problems with my TL sense day 1. I have a book of repairs (I have an early model 04) with 19k. In the beginning I was just dealing with the vibraition because I loved the car so much that I didn't care. I didn't even want to drop it off for other repairs. However, as time went on it got worse and my wife was looking at me like what are you doing. Anyway, if you have been there 3 or more time for the same thing and you are not happy then call the lawyer. BTW....the Lemon Law lawyers get paid buy Acura if you win or lose no money out of your pocket.

sftroy

No attorney needed when going the BBB route - only $$$ out of my pocket was an independent technical inspection I paid for and submitted after my hearing but before the BBB technical inspection. MAKE SURE YOU REQUEST A TECHNICAL INSPECTION or pay for one yourself. BTW, my out of pocket expenses were reimbursed when I won my case.

The dealer noted on my service records that I complained about the vibration and the vibs were confirmed by Acura in writing - they also wrote that they were eliminated when my tires were replaced and the tires were balanced. I also had the DSPM drive with me and the svc manager and they noted that on my records that there were vibrations but they were a "normal characteristic" of my model with OEM tires. I paid to have the tires replaced with non-OEM tires and the vibrations remained - this shot a hole thru their "normal characteristic" claim. Just make sure everything is in writing.

your comment: "I would think that from a lemon law court case perspective, there is a fine line between complaining about a problem that you believe exists vs. complaining about a problem that the dealer confirms exists but does not want to fix" is right on the mark. Acura claimed that I was not being reasonable and that the vibrations are not a problem just a characteristic.

Lore

Thanks for your feedback. I've reported the steering wheel vibration more than a few times now, and it's documented at each dealership. The first dealer claimed it was "normal." The second dealer confirmed it existed, started to work on it but they decided that they did not want to fix it beyond applying the ECM upgrade so I was left at a dead-end at that dealer. The Factory Rep even came out and looked at it but nothing was truly "done" - he felt that it was a normal characteristic.

However, at this third dealer, they've actually called the model engineer down at Acura to get his input, cleaned the throttle body, and are waiting for the new throttle body to get here before they see if any other parts might be necessary. I highly doubt that a steering wheel vibration can be resolved with a new throttle body because I don't have a rough, "coughing" idle - I have a consistent, vibrating idle. The model engineer thinks it might be the motor mount or throttle body, but because the tech doesn't think it's the motor mount, they're starting with the throttle body.

Who knows where this will go... a few more days I guess.

I really like this car - and want to keep it - but I won't hesitate to go through the BBB if it forces the dealer's hand into replacing the damn mount. How do you get an independent technical inspection? Do you just find some random mechanic to do the inspection for you?

Wildcat Jon

Although an attorney myself, I suggest getting a lemon law atty. Most good ones (do your research) will take your case on a "fee shifting" basis, which means that the company will pay the fees. You might have to pay a few hundred dollars in court costs and maybe an inspection. In most states, if you have a single problem that substantially impairs the use, value or safety of the car, and the dealer has had a "reasonable number of repair attempts" (in most states that is 3 or 4 - check your state's law), then you have a lemon and are entitled (in most states) to either a buy back or a replacement new model year vehicle.

From my research on this board and elsewhere (did you know that the TL is no. 17 on the 2004 Lemon List for NHTSA complaints?), ACS is well aware of this issue and is dealing with complaints on a case by case basis. The problem here is that Acura apparently CANNOT FIX THE PROBLEM, which is why the lemon law is the most likely route.

Arbitration is an option, but keep in mind that the arbitrators have to get hired on a consistent basis to make money. Guess who pays the arbitrators. What happens if an arbitrator has a record of awarding too many vehicles/buy backs to consumers? Probably not chosen much. Think about it. Good thing is that in most states, arb is not binding on the consumer, so you can try that route and still sue if you lose.

Wildcat Jon

What are people buying who had their TL repurchased by Acura? Nothing beats the TL for the $$. I originally looked seriously at the G35 but hated the cheap interior. I like the new 330i coming out in May - much more $$ though.

Pearl, how long before Acura responded to your complaint? I'm surprised they haven't quickly tried to settle since this is a well documented issue.

vp911

How about the new lexus IS?

Wildcat Jon

The IS is sharp looking from the pics, but I don't really like the current one. I think the back of the new IS looks like a Corolla from the Geneva pics. But, reliability has always been outstanding not only on Lexus but the old IS in particular. New 330i will be hard to beat though. Interesting, on club3series.com, there are at least 2 former TL owners posting there who have had Acura repurchase their vehicles. Very interesting.

Vanwall

Has anyone experienced the problem of the dealer not giving you any paper work when you take your car in with vibration issues. Makes it had to document a case.

vp911

In Michigan it is required by law that they give u documentation for anything you bring the car in. if you go in for any service you should demand a work order to prove you were there and the lenght of time the service took.

Wildcat Jon

I noticed that the last time I took mine in that they specifically noted that they "couldn't replicate the issue". Beware - I think that is becoming the std response, as last year they clearly recognized there was a problem. Now they just hope you'll go away.

lindros2

I still think Honda/Acura is shit when it comes to vibration-related customer service.

New tires (Pilot Sport A/S) made things better for me...

Wildcat Jon

Anyone specifically had this issue in Ohio? If so, what was the resolution? You can PM me as well if uncomfortable posting. Thx.

Wildcat Jon

Anyone specifically had this issue in Ohio? If so, what was the resolution? You can PM me as well if uncomfortable posting. Thx.

GUMP

Got your PM...I'm still currently waiting for the case to get settled. Acura did not respond to the letter from my lemon law lawyers so I guess we are waiting for a court date. I know someone else who went thru the the same law firm and said it could take up to a year to settle. In the meantime, I've got used to the vibration. I really don't know what is going to happen, but I know I can't cancel the case or they will make me pay for it. As long as I do nothing, the dealers pay for the court cost..I believe it's the law.

Wildcat Jon

Did your attorney just send a letter or file suit. Some mfgs (mainly Big 3) will respond to a letter and immediately discuss settlement if it is a case with merit. Japanese companies are a little more "prudent" so to speak, and usually file an answer and THEN start taking a look at the complaint files at the dealer and at corporate. But, usually Honda/Toyota, etc. will ultimately settle a case with merit before going to trial. But, may take awhile.

Wildcat Jon

Got a ltr from Honda corp. today. Blew me off on my vibration issue. Was expected. I'll let the lemon law suit continue. Very disappointed in Honda/Acura. MDX purchase for my wife is off the table obviously as well. Lost a customer for life. Oh well, BMW and Lexus in the future. So long Acura.