Vibration at ~50mph
11-20-2003, 01:38 AM
#42
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Emissions/Gas Quality/Etc.
I don't yet have the new TL, but am planning on it pretty soon. However, been following this thread and had a thought: Have any of the people who have experienced this vibration experimented with a different brand/quality of gas? It seems to be that the system may be compensating timing or to try to optimize emissions, perhaps for oxygenated gasoline, a slightly low octane, or maybe would be happier with a different brand or even (as an experiment) an octane booster to bring the octane up by a couple of points.
Sometimes an engine can get a teeny amount of harmless knock/detonation at cruising throttle positions*, particularing one with the increased compression ratio of the new motor in the TL (remember compression was increased over the old TL-S's motor). You'd never hear this in the TL's motor, but the engine would immediately compensate to try to get rid of it. If it's having trouble finding a sweet spot to stay at, one would probably feel some "vibration". A possible solution (barring a reprogramming of the engine control unit) would be ensuring you're at the top of the owner's manual octane recommendation, or trying a completely different brand of gas, or trying a booster.
Cheers,
Bruce
* For instance, while a completely different type of motor, my Harley engine does this. The barely hearable detonation vanishes if you either go deeper into the throttle, or trail the throttle. In the case of the HD motor, you just get the slight noise (and it's _very_ slight). In the case of the TL motor, there are feedback systems that will start monkeying with fuel injection and timing to try to get rid of it. Anyway, as I said, just an idea.
Sometimes an engine can get a teeny amount of harmless knock/detonation at cruising throttle positions*, particularing one with the increased compression ratio of the new motor in the TL (remember compression was increased over the old TL-S's motor). You'd never hear this in the TL's motor, but the engine would immediately compensate to try to get rid of it. If it's having trouble finding a sweet spot to stay at, one would probably feel some "vibration". A possible solution (barring a reprogramming of the engine control unit) would be ensuring you're at the top of the owner's manual octane recommendation, or trying a completely different brand of gas, or trying a booster.
Cheers,
Bruce
* For instance, while a completely different type of motor, my Harley engine does this. The barely hearable detonation vanishes if you either go deeper into the throttle, or trail the throttle. In the case of the HD motor, you just get the slight noise (and it's _very_ slight). In the case of the TL motor, there are feedback systems that will start monkeying with fuel injection and timing to try to get rid of it. Anyway, as I said, just an idea.
11-20-2003, 12:02 PM
#43
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I have both kind of vibrations - one high frequency vibrations at all speeds and the other vibration (& slight grinding feel from the engine/axil) when I speed up to 50-55 mph 
I have a appointment with my dealer on 12/1/03. But, meanwhile as suggested by brucehallberg, I will try another brand of gas and see if the consistent vibration goes away by it.
The first problem might be a wheel balancing or other tire related issue or brand of gas usage issue. But the second definately seems like it shifts up to the 5th gear earlier than it should.
I will be putting on about 1000 miles during the Thanksgiving weekend and am worried that driving so much with the up-shifting problem may cause some permanent damage to the engine/transmission
Do you guys think I should not drive that much before getting the problem fixed?
Also, has anybody been able to get this problem (vibrations at ~ 55 mph) fixed?
________________
2004 Acura TL Auto w Navi - Anthracite with Ebony (with about 750 miles and last four digits of VIN are 9099)
I have a appointment with my dealer on 12/1/03. But, meanwhile as suggested by brucehallberg, I will try another brand of gas and see if the consistent vibration goes away by it.
The first problem might be a wheel balancing or other tire related issue or brand of gas usage issue. But the second definately seems like it shifts up to the 5th gear earlier than it should.
I will be putting on about 1000 miles during the Thanksgiving weekend and am worried that driving so much with the up-shifting problem may cause some permanent damage to the engine/transmission
Do you guys think I should not drive that much before getting the problem fixed?Also, has anybody been able to get this problem (vibrations at ~ 55 mph) fixed?
________________
2004 Acura TL Auto w Navi - Anthracite with Ebony (with about 750 miles and last four digits of VIN are 9099)
11-20-2003, 12:36 PM
#44
an Acura has-been
Bridgestone Contact Info
I called the Bridgestone hot line, no answers, but they do want me to bring it to a Bridgestone Tire Retailer to check the cold flat spots.
Also, they said they are documenting the issue and if enough come in, they would look at it further.
Therefore I recomend that all the TL drivers having tire vibration issues contact Bridgestone and indicate that this is an OEM appliation and you are not satisfied with the cold tire flat spots creating vibration issues and ask what they are going to do.
I did tell them that there are a lot of complaints on this, and a tire should not be doing this!
Here is the information for Bridgestone:
Tel - 800-367-3872
Consumer Affairs Dept.
P. O. Box 7988
Chicago, IL 60680-9534
Tel - 800-367-3872
FAX - 800-760-7859
Good luck and I hope this helps!
Also, they said they are documenting the issue and if enough come in, they would look at it further.
Therefore I recomend that all the TL drivers having tire vibration issues contact Bridgestone and indicate that this is an OEM appliation and you are not satisfied with the cold tire flat spots creating vibration issues and ask what they are going to do.
I did tell them that there are a lot of complaints on this, and a tire should not be doing this!
Here is the information for Bridgestone:
Tel - 800-367-3872
Consumer Affairs Dept.
P. O. Box 7988
Chicago, IL 60680-9534
Tel - 800-367-3872
FAX - 800-760-7859
Good luck and I hope this helps!
11-20-2003, 12:52 PM
#45
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Hmm.
I got the impression that most of the people with this complaint are not just getting the vibration during "warmup", but consistently either at certain speeds or potentially through their transmission.
Ryan
I got the impression that most of the people with this complaint are not just getting the vibration during "warmup", but consistently either at certain speeds or potentially through their transmission.
Ryan
11-20-2003, 01:19 PM
#46
an Acura has-been
Originally posted by rybocf
Hmm.
I got the impression that most of the people with this complaint are not just getting the vibration during "warmup", but consistently either at certain speeds or potentially through their transmission.
Ryan
Hmm.
I got the impression that most of the people with this complaint are not just getting the vibration during "warmup", but consistently either at certain speeds or potentially through their transmission.
Ryan
11-20-2003, 02:09 PM
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So now we're looking at 3 potential vibration issues.
1. Flat spot on tires, goes away after warm-up of car/tires.
2. Vibration caused by transmission/RPMs at around 50-55 mph only. Downshift, accelerate, etc. and it goes away, or decreases signficantly. People think it is related to their Auto. Transmission.
3. Vibration for most of the time (depending on road conditions a little) at highway speeds, usually felt above the 55 mph level, but consistent in any gear or RPM. Fairly consistent.
People can also have "combinations" as these all tend to be different issues. I have experienced #3 only.
Ryan
1. Flat spot on tires, goes away after warm-up of car/tires.
2. Vibration caused by transmission/RPMs at around 50-55 mph only. Downshift, accelerate, etc. and it goes away, or decreases signficantly. People think it is related to their Auto. Transmission.
3. Vibration for most of the time (depending on road conditions a little) at highway speeds, usually felt above the 55 mph level, but consistent in any gear or RPM. Fairly consistent.
People can also have "combinations" as these all tend to be different issues. I have experienced #3 only.
Ryan
11-20-2003, 02:26 PM
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Exactly! Unfortunately, I am experiencing all 3. Problem (1) appears to go away when warmed up. Problem (2) never goes away. I can consistently reproduce problem. Problem (3) as you said earlier, severity depends on road condition
11-20-2003, 02:35 PM
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My car is going in on 12/2 for #3. I'll report back what they find out. Everyone else please do the same because it sounds like a significant number of people are at least experiencing one of these problems.
Ryan
Ryan
11-20-2003, 05:58 PM
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Originally posted by fsconsult
Gradually reach 50 mph using auto tran (do not use SS). Once there, keep the accelerator pressed just enough to maintain speed within 50-55 mph. (remember, once speed passes the 55 mph thresehold, vibration seems to gradually dissappear, so try to maintain speed within 50-55) - DO NOT RELEASE THE GAS PEDAL - press just enough to maintain 50-55 mph. (since releasing the gas will stop vibration)
If you have the problem, you should feel vibrations from both the steering wheel and the accelerator.
Gradually reach 50 mph using auto tran (do not use SS). Once there, keep the accelerator pressed just enough to maintain speed within 50-55 mph. (remember, once speed passes the 55 mph thresehold, vibration seems to gradually dissappear, so try to maintain speed within 50-55) - DO NOT RELEASE THE GAS PEDAL - press just enough to maintain 50-55 mph. (since releasing the gas will stop vibration)
If you have the problem, you should feel vibrations from both the steering wheel and the accelerator.
11-20-2003, 08:04 PM
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I'm dropping my 2004 AT off on Monday night 11/24/03.
TL going to sit at the dealer overnight.
Tech is going to drive in morning and diagnose problem.
I'll post on Tuesday if they solve it. ( though not to encourged they will completely solve it by sound of posts)
TL going to sit at the dealer overnight.
Tech is going to drive in morning and diagnose problem.
I'll post on Tuesday if they solve it. ( though not to encourged they will completely solve it by sound of posts)
11-21-2003, 10:21 AM
#52
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I haven't taken the car in yet, but have been checking back on this thread to hear more feedback and experiences. This morning as I was pulling out to go to work, it put it SportShift. By the time I reached close to 50mph, I had it in 4th gear in SS. I could feel the vibration starting up and I was at about 55mph now. So I throw it back into full automatic and vibration still there. Then I put it back in SS 4th gear, vib still there. Put her in 5th gear SS, and still there. So I'm thinking it is definitely a tire issue (flat spot or balancing) and possibly also related to the transmission.
11-24-2003, 01:05 AM
#54
an Acura has-been
TireRack Explination of Cold Flat Spots
Here is an explination I got over at vtec.net from the TireRack folks after they researched into the EL42 flat spots that are created when cold!
I guess we will have to either live with it, or replace them.
------------------------------------------
My Question
04 TL Cold Tire Vibration Issues (Score: 1, Normal) 11-19-2003 01:01
Dear Tire Rack -
I am a long time customer of both tires, and tire/wheel packages and hope you can clarify this issue.
Many of the 04 TL owners are complaining that when the tires are cold (Bridgestone Turanza EL42's in 235/45-17) they get vibration issues, once they warm up, it goes away.
An Acura Regional Sevice rep has indicated that these tires develop flat spots when cold. In the past I have purchased in the same size (but a lighter car by about 500lbs) Yoko AVS Sport tires and never saw this issue.
What is the cause and is this normal?
One switched to Pilot Sport A/S and said they did not have the same issue.
Here is a link to a thread discussing this issue (you may have to copy and past into your browser):
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...ge%5fid=175142
Thanks for the help, it is realy disturbing for such a great car!
-------------------------------
Tire Rack 1st Reply -
Re: 04 TL Cold Tire Vibration Issues (Score: 1, Normal) 11-19-2003 21:03
A few versions of this tire use 2 nylon caps running the circumference of the tire, I'm trying to confirm this is the case with stock TL Turanza.
Nylon is susceptible to flatspotting, I'll get more info on the tire construction and post more info on this.
------------------------------
My reply -
Re: 04 TL Tire Construction Values (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2003 19:08
need4spd wrote:
Cy,
Thanks so much for your reply, I went and checked the info on the sidewall of the EL42's, and found that it has the following construction:
Tread - 2 ply polyester + 2 Steel + 1 Nylon
Sidewall - 2 ply polyester
When you say circumference, I am not sure if you are talking tread cap, or sidwall. It should be noted that the 1 Nylon was an insert that can be changed (I guess to other materials, or qty)
Thanks again for your help on this and looking into it, the info above should give you what you were looking for.
(FYI - the ratings are 260/A/A)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tire Rack final reply
Thanks for checking on the construction on your tires, we checked here as well.
As I had posted above, the flatspotting is most likely caused by the nylon reinforcement cap which is a nylon ply placed above the steel belts and underneath the undertread which keeps the tire deflecting or "bending" at higher speeds so the that the tire can pass the 168 MPH speed test and be a W rated tire. The more a tire deflects the more it gathers heat and eventually the heat causes the tire to fail. Nylon constricts under high heat so the nylon cap keeps the tire from deflecting and gathering more heat.
Unfortunately, one of the downsides of nylon is that it has a memory effect which causes flatspotting which goes away as the tire warms up.
Other drivers have experienced flatspotting on other high-speed rated tires EG the Bridgestone S-03 Pole Position in certain vehicles. Often the same exact tire will be flatspot in one vehicle but won't others because differences in suspension design, bushings, geometry etc.
The bottom line is that when Bridgestone designed tire per Honda's requirements they balanced the risk and annoyances of a design that might be susceptible to flatspotting with the traits such as high speed capability, handling, comfort etc and the end result is the flatspotting.
Drivers who often take a lot of short trips will be those most annoyed by flatspotting since the tire doesn't have a chance to warm up. In shopping for replacement tires it's best to get feedback from other drivers of the same vehicle. The Reviews section we have for each tire allow you filter to reviews specific to your vehicle. For example, if we look at the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S at:
http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AL6&...ot+Sport+A%2FS
Click on the Reviews link in black ink right below the Pilot Sport A/S in red, you will get a list of reviews. Enter your year (just use 2004 to maximize the number of responses) and Acura and our system will filter reviews to only Acura.
Finally, although the use of a nylon cap does not necessarily mean that the tire will flatspot, Michelin uses a polyamide cap which should be most resistant to flatspotting.
I guess we will have to either live with it, or replace them.
------------------------------------------
My Question
04 TL Cold Tire Vibration Issues (Score: 1, Normal) 11-19-2003 01:01
Dear Tire Rack -
I am a long time customer of both tires, and tire/wheel packages and hope you can clarify this issue.
Many of the 04 TL owners are complaining that when the tires are cold (Bridgestone Turanza EL42's in 235/45-17) they get vibration issues, once they warm up, it goes away.
An Acura Regional Sevice rep has indicated that these tires develop flat spots when cold. In the past I have purchased in the same size (but a lighter car by about 500lbs) Yoko AVS Sport tires and never saw this issue.
What is the cause and is this normal?
One switched to Pilot Sport A/S and said they did not have the same issue.
Here is a link to a thread discussing this issue (you may have to copy and past into your browser):
http://www.vtec.net/forums/one-messa...ge%5fid=175142
Thanks for the help, it is realy disturbing for such a great car!
-------------------------------
Tire Rack 1st Reply -
Re: 04 TL Cold Tire Vibration Issues (Score: 1, Normal) 11-19-2003 21:03
A few versions of this tire use 2 nylon caps running the circumference of the tire, I'm trying to confirm this is the case with stock TL Turanza.
Nylon is susceptible to flatspotting, I'll get more info on the tire construction and post more info on this.
------------------------------
My reply -
Re: 04 TL Tire Construction Values (Score: 1, Normal) 11-21-2003 19:08
need4spd wrote:
Cy,
Thanks so much for your reply, I went and checked the info on the sidewall of the EL42's, and found that it has the following construction:
Tread - 2 ply polyester + 2 Steel + 1 Nylon
Sidewall - 2 ply polyester
When you say circumference, I am not sure if you are talking tread cap, or sidwall. It should be noted that the 1 Nylon was an insert that can be changed (I guess to other materials, or qty)
Thanks again for your help on this and looking into it, the info above should give you what you were looking for.
(FYI - the ratings are 260/A/A)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Tire Rack final reply
Thanks for checking on the construction on your tires, we checked here as well.
As I had posted above, the flatspotting is most likely caused by the nylon reinforcement cap which is a nylon ply placed above the steel belts and underneath the undertread which keeps the tire deflecting or "bending" at higher speeds so the that the tire can pass the 168 MPH speed test and be a W rated tire. The more a tire deflects the more it gathers heat and eventually the heat causes the tire to fail. Nylon constricts under high heat so the nylon cap keeps the tire from deflecting and gathering more heat.
Unfortunately, one of the downsides of nylon is that it has a memory effect which causes flatspotting which goes away as the tire warms up.
Other drivers have experienced flatspotting on other high-speed rated tires EG the Bridgestone S-03 Pole Position in certain vehicles. Often the same exact tire will be flatspot in one vehicle but won't others because differences in suspension design, bushings, geometry etc.
The bottom line is that when Bridgestone designed tire per Honda's requirements they balanced the risk and annoyances of a design that might be susceptible to flatspotting with the traits such as high speed capability, handling, comfort etc and the end result is the flatspotting.
Drivers who often take a lot of short trips will be those most annoyed by flatspotting since the tire doesn't have a chance to warm up. In shopping for replacement tires it's best to get feedback from other drivers of the same vehicle. The Reviews section we have for each tire allow you filter to reviews specific to your vehicle. For example, if we look at the Michelin Pilot Sport A/S at:
http://www.tirerack.com/a.jsp?a=AL6&...ot+Sport+A%2FS
Click on the Reviews link in black ink right below the Pilot Sport A/S in red, you will get a list of reviews. Enter your year (just use 2004 to maximize the number of responses) and Acura and our system will filter reviews to only Acura.
Finally, although the use of a nylon cap does not necessarily mean that the tire will flatspot, Michelin uses a polyamide cap which should be most resistant to flatspotting.
11-24-2003, 07:21 AM
#55
Team Owner
Flatspotting felt well before 50mph...
Good info from Tire Rack. I was out of town last week for three days, and my tires got good a flat-spotted while the car just sat in the garage.
I could easily feel the flat-spotting as I drove down my residential street at 20-25 mph, and it did go away pretty quickly as I drove to work.
This was a totally different feel from the 50mph vibe, which on my car only starts to be felt at around 50 and never goes away.
Mike
I could easily feel the flat-spotting as I drove down my residential street at 20-25 mph, and it did go away pretty quickly as I drove to work.
This was a totally different feel from the 50mph vibe, which on my car only starts to be felt at around 50 and never goes away.
Mike
11-24-2003, 03:35 PM
#56
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I replaced the Turanzas this morning with a set of Pirelli Pzero Nero M+S. I have to say that the difference is amazing.
I drove my car this past weekend on the first 200 mile trip since I bought it and I was a nervous wreck after having felt constant vibration through the steering wheel the entire time. Checked the tire inflation which was OK so I thought it was an alignment issue - WRONG - it was the tires. The Pirelli's are much quieter and there is no discernable vibration through the steering wheel anymore. Bottom line - the Turanzas are not right for the '04 TL.
Ryan
I drove my car this past weekend on the first 200 mile trip since I bought it and I was a nervous wreck after having felt constant vibration through the steering wheel the entire time. Checked the tire inflation which was OK so I thought it was an alignment issue - WRONG - it was the tires. The Pirelli's are much quieter and there is no discernable vibration through the steering wheel anymore. Bottom line - the Turanzas are not right for the '04 TL.
Ryan
11-24-2003, 03:46 PM
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Can you tell us which of the 3 vibration issues you were experiencing before you switched tires?
I took the car out for an extended higway drive today, and I have to say the vibration at 75-85 got pretty bad at one point. I mean it made me feel unsafe. I ask the wife to feel the steering to see if I was making too much of it, and she easily felt the wheel vibrating.
There is no way this car should make me feel unsafe on an open highway at 75 mph. My Honda Accord was flawless at these speeds.
If these problems turn out to be related to the tire, and my appt. on 12/2 doesn't clear it up, I'm going to call Acura and complain.
I'm actually starting to get pissed off because of this.
Ryan
I took the car out for an extended higway drive today, and I have to say the vibration at 75-85 got pretty bad at one point. I mean it made me feel unsafe. I ask the wife to feel the steering to see if I was making too much of it, and she easily felt the wheel vibrating.
There is no way this car should make me feel unsafe on an open highway at 75 mph. My Honda Accord was flawless at these speeds.
If these problems turn out to be related to the tire, and my appt. on 12/2 doesn't clear it up, I'm going to call Acura and complain.
I'm actually starting to get pissed off because of this.
Ryan
11-24-2003, 05:43 PM
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I do not have the TL but my Accord Coupe had same problem ( vibration ) switched from Bridgestone garbage to Michelliin and the problem is gone!!.....MXV4 Energy plus.
11-24-2003, 06:28 PM
#59
Team Owner
We shouldn't have to shell out $800 to put proper shoes on our brand new $33,000 cars. I'm going to keep working my dealer on this, especially since I get up to 50mph only once or twice a day.
Mike
Mike
11-24-2003, 06:37 PM
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Originally posted by svtmike
We shouldn't have to shell out $800 to put proper shoes on our brand new $33,000 cars.
We shouldn't have to shell out $800 to put proper shoes on our brand new $33,000 cars.
i got a brand new set of tires on my IS300 for free because a couple people complained to lexus about bubbles forming in the sidewalls.
we need to keep on acura about this!!!
11-24-2003, 09:29 PM
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missing point it ain't tires
flat spotting on cold tires is tire related. vibration at 50 mph, not in ss mode, is a tranny problem,all the tires in the world will not fix that, No one with 6mt is complaining about viibration at steady acceration at 50-55. If it were tire related it would make no difference if you were coasting or accelerrating,
11-24-2003, 10:04 PM
#62
Team Owner
Re: missing point it ain't tires
Originally posted by jyg tl 3
If it were tire related it would make no difference if you were coasting or accelerrating,
If it were tire related it would make no difference if you were coasting or accelerrating,
Mike
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11-26-2003, 05:59 PM
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Just got my 2004 AT TL back from service concerning the vibration issue.
My dealer had the car two nights.
Bottom line: It is definietly a tire issue.
They tried everything as far as balancing, etc. Switched tires from another brand new TL and still vibration issue. Then they found that many of the brand new TL's they have are doing this.
Solution: There is none as of now. Honda corporate is aware of the issue and says "we are addressing the problem - don't do anything now"
In other words Honda is stuck until Bridgestone gives them new tires or acknowleges problem.
Honda is not going to shell out $800 dollars for Piriellis for everyone if they can get Bridgestone to shell and fix the tire. (this is my guess of the situation)
If you guys have this problem call Acura Client Services: 800-382-2238. Tell them this problem is not acceptable.
The more people call the quicker we get this fixed.
And if any of you guys get your local Acura Service to switch tires to another brand for free post it here.
My dealer had the car two nights.
Bottom line: It is definietly a tire issue.
They tried everything as far as balancing, etc. Switched tires from another brand new TL and still vibration issue. Then they found that many of the brand new TL's they have are doing this.
Solution: There is none as of now. Honda corporate is aware of the issue and says "we are addressing the problem - don't do anything now"
In other words Honda is stuck until Bridgestone gives them new tires or acknowleges problem.
Honda is not going to shell out $800 dollars for Piriellis for everyone if they can get Bridgestone to shell and fix the tire. (this is my guess of the situation)
If you guys have this problem call Acura Client Services: 800-382-2238. Tell them this problem is not acceptable.
The more people call the quicker we get this fixed.
And if any of you guys get your local Acura Service to switch tires to another brand for free post it here.
11-26-2003, 09:45 PM
#64
an Acura has-been
I complained last week to acura corp, they did not have much to say, other than contact bridgestone, so I did, they want me to bring it to a bridgestone company store for an inspection, what a pain, the closest one is 30 miles, plus I have to let them cool for a while for it to happen.
I did fill them to 39/35 per vtecbrain, no dice, still flat spoted!
I did fill them to 39/35 per vtecbrain, no dice, still flat spoted!
11-26-2003, 11:09 PM
#65
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As a person who is seriously considering a Acura TL purchase in the near future (about a month), this problem is something that I really want to avoid.
If anyone does get some information about getting new tires from the dealer or having Acura pay for replacement tires, please do let us know.
Thanks!
If anyone does get some information about getting new tires from the dealer or having Acura pay for replacement tires, please do let us know.
Thanks!
Originally posted by DaveB99
Just got my 2004 AT TL back from service concerning the vibration issue.
My dealer had the car two nights.
Bottom line: It is definietly a tire issue.
They tried everything as far as balancing, etc. Switched tires from another brand new TL and still vibration issue. Then they found that many of the brand new TL's they have are doing this.
Solution: There is none as of now. Honda corporate is aware of the issue and says "we are addressing the problem - don't do anything now"
In other words Honda is stuck until Bridgestone gives them new tires or acknowleges problem.
Honda is not going to shell out $800 dollars for Piriellis for everyone if they can get Bridgestone to shell and fix the tire. (this is my guess of the situation)
If you guys have this problem call Acura Client Services: 800-382-2238. Tell them this problem is not acceptable.
The more people call the quicker we get this fixed.
And if any of you guys get your local Acura Service to switch tires to another brand for free post it here.
Just got my 2004 AT TL back from service concerning the vibration issue.
My dealer had the car two nights.
Bottom line: It is definietly a tire issue.
They tried everything as far as balancing, etc. Switched tires from another brand new TL and still vibration issue. Then they found that many of the brand new TL's they have are doing this.
Solution: There is none as of now. Honda corporate is aware of the issue and says "we are addressing the problem - don't do anything now"
In other words Honda is stuck until Bridgestone gives them new tires or acknowleges problem.
Honda is not going to shell out $800 dollars for Piriellis for everyone if they can get Bridgestone to shell and fix the tire. (this is my guess of the situation)
If you guys have this problem call Acura Client Services: 800-382-2238. Tell them this problem is not acceptable.
The more people call the quicker we get this fixed.
And if any of you guys get your local Acura Service to switch tires to another brand for free post it here.
11-27-2003, 12:02 AM
#66
Team Owner
Originally posted by need4spd
I complained last week to acura corp, they did not have much to say, other than contact bridgestone
I complained last week to acura corp, they did not have much to say, other than contact bridgestone
Acura should be taking responsibility for their selection, and following up with their supplier, not sending customers out on ridiculous errands.
My car goes in again on Friday over the tires, plus I have the seat amnesia problem.
If I'd wanted to have my new car in the shop 3 times in the first month, I'd have bought a Ford Focus.
Mike
11-27-2003, 12:20 AM
#67
an Acura has-been
Originally posted by svtmike
That's the wrong answer on Acura's part. They selected Bridgestone as the supplier. They selected the Turanza EL42 as the tire. They tested the tire in the application.
Acura should be taking responsibility for their selection, and following up with their supplier, not sending customers out on ridiculous errands.
My car goes in again on Friday over the tires, plus I have the seat amnesia problem.
If I'd wanted to have my new car in the shop 3 times in the first month, I'd have bought a Ford Focus.
Mike
That's the wrong answer on Acura's part. They selected Bridgestone as the supplier. They selected the Turanza EL42 as the tire. They tested the tire in the application.
Acura should be taking responsibility for their selection, and following up with their supplier, not sending customers out on ridiculous errands.
My car goes in again on Friday over the tires, plus I have the seat amnesia problem.
If I'd wanted to have my new car in the shop 3 times in the first month, I'd have bought a Ford Focus.
Mike
11-27-2003, 11:38 AM
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Originally posted by rybocf
Can you tell us which of the 3 vibration issues you were experiencing before you switched tires?
I took the car out for an extended higway drive today, and I have to say the vibration at 75-85 got pretty bad at one point. I mean it made me feel unsafe. I ask the wife to feel the steering to see if I was making too much of it, and she easily felt the wheel vibrating.
There is no way this car should make me feel unsafe on an open highway at 75 mph. My Honda Accord was flawless at these speeds.
If these problems turn out to be related to the tire, and my appt. on 12/2 doesn't clear it up, I'm going to call Acura and complain.
I'm actually starting to get pissed off because of this.
Ryan
Can you tell us which of the 3 vibration issues you were experiencing before you switched tires?
I took the car out for an extended higway drive today, and I have to say the vibration at 75-85 got pretty bad at one point. I mean it made me feel unsafe. I ask the wife to feel the steering to see if I was making too much of it, and she easily felt the wheel vibrating.
There is no way this car should make me feel unsafe on an open highway at 75 mph. My Honda Accord was flawless at these speeds.
If these problems turn out to be related to the tire, and my appt. on 12/2 doesn't clear it up, I'm going to call Acura and complain.
I'm actually starting to get pissed off because of this.
Ryan
Rybocf,
I had the flat spot problem first thing every day regardless of speed. I also had a constant vibration through the steering wheel above 50 mph. Finally, I had a very nasty (to the point of being dangerous) vibration between 70 and 85 mph. I took a 200 mile trip through the mountains at high speed and the car felt like I was running on nobby 4x4 tires when I was above 70 mph. I checked the tire pressure and it was fine and there was no pulling so I assumed the alignment was OK that meant the only non-mechanical thing it could be was the tires. I had planned on swapping the tires out when the car arrived however my car beat the tires on delivery by about a week.
Anyway, I have a sh*tty set of Bridgestone Turanza EL42's in the garage that I am going to put on E-bay to unload. Originally a friend of mine had told me he wanted to buy them once the new tires were installed (he has an '03 TL-S) but after doing some research he doesn't want anything to do with them.
I think Acura needs to reimburse me for my new tires (they are much cheaper than the Turanza's). If anyone hears Acura is replacing tires please post it as I'll glady swap my displaced Turanza for something else that I can either unload or use later.
Ryan
11-27-2003, 11:55 AM
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Rhaas:
Did your dealer have to respec the car for the new tires?
i.e. my dealer said the Bridgestones match the suspension etc. so it is difficult to put a different set of tires on.
If I buy your Pirellis what do I tell my dealer to do to my TL to make sure they are matched up to get a smooth ride (all the time!!)
How much did you spend for the tires also?
I am fed up with this and am going your route soon!!
Did your dealer have to respec the car for the new tires?
i.e. my dealer said the Bridgestones match the suspension etc. so it is difficult to put a different set of tires on.
If I buy your Pirellis what do I tell my dealer to do to my TL to make sure they are matched up to get a smooth ride (all the time!!)
How much did you spend for the tires also?
I am fed up with this and am going your route soon!!
11-27-2003, 08:06 PM
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Rhaas,
You and I have the EXACT same problem (well, HAD in your case). Damn. What am I going to do about my tires? I don't want to fight with Acura, but I don't want to shell out $800 for a new set of skins.
Ryan
You and I have the EXACT same problem (well, HAD in your case). Damn. What am I going to do about my tires? I don't want to fight with Acura, but I don't want to shell out $800 for a new set of skins.
Ryan
11-27-2003, 09:38 PM
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I have an appointment to have the dealership look at my 1 week old automatic TL. It vibrates just under 50mph and just over 50 mph (and probably a couple of other speeds too). Other than this ridiculous problem, the car is amazing.
I am prepared to fight hard to get this fixed, but am hoping that Acura is a reasonable company and will seek to make things right on their own.
I purchased the car at Pohanka Acura (No. VA) and will be dealing with them tomorrow for the first look at this problem.
Funny thing is, I thought that by buying an Acura, there was no need to fear such trivial problems.
I am prepared to fight hard to get this fixed, but am hoping that Acura is a reasonable company and will seek to make things right on their own.
I purchased the car at Pohanka Acura (No. VA) and will be dealing with them tomorrow for the first look at this problem.
Funny thing is, I thought that by buying an Acura, there was no need to fear such trivial problems.
11-27-2003, 11:04 PM
#73
Has anybody tried deflating and then reinflating them? Could be a bead setting problem (suggested in another thread). Mine has never vibrated at any speed. Another suggestion is to take the car out and put it through the grinder on a good curvy road to see if that will settle the problem.
11-27-2003, 11:15 PM
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Originally posted by RJC RSX
expat, our car will also be serviced at Pohanka, please share your experience, thanks
expat, our car will also be serviced at Pohanka, please share your experience, thanks
I too have my car at Pohanka serivce. (going on 4 days now).
I don't know if you guys are experiencing the same problems I am with vibrations. Mine is definitely engine related. Nothing to do with tires or alignment (tech seems to agree). see my earlier posts:
http://www.acura-tl.com/forum/showth...threadid=65738
I haven't heard anything yet. I'm starting to think that my engine mounting is off or something and is causing the vibrations? Man did I buy a lemon.
Let me know what pohanka is telling you.
11-27-2003, 11:25 PM
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fsconsult - I have wondered if the drivetrain might be causing or contributing to the problem as well. The only good thing is that the problem is 100% reproducible so it shouldn't be hard to confirm a fix.
RJC - I will publish my results tomorrow afternoon.
RJC - I will publish my results tomorrow afternoon.
11-28-2003, 10:49 AM
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Originally posted by rybocf
Rhaas,
You and I have the EXACT same problem (well, HAD in your case). Damn. What am I going to do about my tires? I don't want to fight with Acura, but I don't want to shell out $800 for a new set of skins.
Ryan
Rhaas,
You and I have the EXACT same problem (well, HAD in your case). Damn. What am I going to do about my tires? I don't want to fight with Acura, but I don't want to shell out $800 for a new set of skins.
Ryan
Rybocf:
Not that it is much better but the tires I picked up (Pzero Nero M+S) cost $127 ea. (approx. $525 total) plus Acura dealer charged $60 to mount/balance (bastards). Not $800 but you may want a higher end tire than I picked up. I used Discount Tire who matched Tire Rack's pricing.
Again, if anyone hears that Acura is replacing the Turanza's let the group know. I want to get these stinkin' Turanzas out of my garage as they will never again be riding under my TL. But I will settle for the replacements they offer up ;-)
Ryan
11-28-2003, 12:53 PM
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Originally posted by fsconsult
Everyone who is reading this post, please respond either way...whether you are having this problem or not after testing. This will be very helpful. Here is what you should do to test your engine:
Gradually reach 50 mph using auto tran (do not use SS). Once there, keep the accelerator pressed just enough to maintain speed within 50-55 mph. (remember, once speed passes the 55 mph thresehold, vibration seems to gradually dissappear, so try to maintain speed within 50-55) - DO NOT RELEASE THE GAS PEDAL - press just enough to maintain 50-55 mph. (since releasing the gas will stop vibration)
If you have the problem, you should feel vibrations from both the steering wheel and the accelerator.
Many people may not notice this problem because, alot of people may not tread for any length of time in the 50-55 mph range. But if you are forced, i.e. road condition to constantly maintain speed around 50, you will definitely notice the problem.
I don't notice the vibration getting on the highway, since I do not maintain speed in the 50-55 mph range for long...usually go from 30 (merging) to 75 (highway speed) fairly quickly.
By the way, I too have the tire vibrations as many mentioned, but definitely different issue than the engine vibration.
Let us know your personal results. THANKS
Everyone who is reading this post, please respond either way...whether you are having this problem or not after testing. This will be very helpful. Here is what you should do to test your engine:
Gradually reach 50 mph using auto tran (do not use SS). Once there, keep the accelerator pressed just enough to maintain speed within 50-55 mph. (remember, once speed passes the 55 mph thresehold, vibration seems to gradually dissappear, so try to maintain speed within 50-55) - DO NOT RELEASE THE GAS PEDAL - press just enough to maintain 50-55 mph. (since releasing the gas will stop vibration)
If you have the problem, you should feel vibrations from both the steering wheel and the accelerator.
Many people may not notice this problem because, alot of people may not tread for any length of time in the 50-55 mph range. But if you are forced, i.e. road condition to constantly maintain speed around 50, you will definitely notice the problem.
I don't notice the vibration getting on the highway, since I do not maintain speed in the 50-55 mph range for long...usually go from 30 (merging) to 75 (highway speed) fairly quickly.
By the way, I too have the tire vibrations as many mentioned, but definitely different issue than the engine vibration.
Let us know your personal results. THANKS
11-28-2003, 01:22 PM
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Took the car to the dealership this morning. All they did was balance the wheels and oddly enough, the problem didn't go away. In keeping with their "who gives a sh*t" policy, they didn't test drive it to confirm the adequacy of their silly effort.
I didn't expect them to do much, but now I can begin a proper escalation with Acura.
They washed my car, got lots of water on the inside and on the steering wheel.
What a joke. Onwards and upwards...
I didn't expect them to do much, but now I can begin a proper escalation with Acura.
They washed my car, got lots of water on the inside and on the steering wheel.
What a joke. Onwards and upwards...
11-28-2003, 01:42 PM
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expat...
Take it back! I wouldn't accept that type of service. They are still looking into my vibration issues. They have had it for 5 days now. Haven't heard anything yet.
But I guarantee that I would not be driving my car out their service department unless the tech drives along with me on a test drive...
They must know that others are compaining about the engine vibration problem. I should know, I'm one of them!
Take it back! I wouldn't accept that type of service. They are still looking into my vibration issues. They have had it for 5 days now. Haven't heard anything yet.
But I guarantee that I would not be driving my car out their service department unless the tech drives along with me on a test drive...
They must know that others are compaining about the engine vibration problem. I should know, I'm one of them!
11-28-2003, 03:13 PM
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Here is the latest info I have:
Acura corporate has still not made the call to replace tires.
They may be testing, etc some new tires. who knows?
or it may take a long time for this type of recall decision on tires to be made. (it could involve mega bucks for Acura)
So in the meantime the only fix is to do it yourself on your dime.
Or wait for the Acura corporate decision to be made and that way it is Acuras dime.
The local dealers have to get Acura corporates approval or it is on the dealers dime. And we know dealers aren't going to put it on their dime.
My biggest concern if this vibration in the morning is bad for your car in the long run.
I may drive my 200K honda and wait it out.
Acura corporate has still not made the call to replace tires.
They may be testing, etc some new tires. who knows?
or it may take a long time for this type of recall decision on tires to be made. (it could involve mega bucks for Acura)
So in the meantime the only fix is to do it yourself on your dime.
Or wait for the Acura corporate decision to be made and that way it is Acuras dime.
The local dealers have to get Acura corporates approval or it is on the dealers dime. And we know dealers aren't going to put it on their dime.
My biggest concern if this vibration in the morning is bad for your car in the long run.
I may drive my 200K honda and wait it out.