U4ICTHEORY

It started off after leaving the house to get some much needed lunch. My fiance and I were craving Pasta and it was litterally across town... all i needed to do was hit the freeway... from the 3rd light to the freeway a Black 2000 Monte Carlo SS weaved in and out of traffic like a mad man... his cherry bomb glass-packs roaring from light to light. with in seconds he cut off 2 vehicles and wedged the car behind me as we jumped on the 99 northbound toward sacramento. i was still in 3rd gear and waited for him to pull along side me before i mashed the pedal to the floor... instantly i pulled ahead... again he came along side of me... but that's when the vtec hit in 5th gear... i looked down and saw i was in the 130 MHP area and the SS was no longer in sight... but just as i eased off the throttle back to an easy 70 MPH... a 95 Vette came on the scene... I can only assume he was behind the SS the whole time and i never noticed, or he saw us from a distance and gave chase... either way the 07 TL-S was in the mood for some high speed travel... as the vette pulled along side me he throttled it to pull ahead then eased off to drop along side of me... he did this 2 times before i decided to downshift into 4th... the second he pulled along side of me i dopped the gear... all the way to 140 MPH he stayed along side me, niether pulling ahead nor dropping back... as i put it into 6th i noticed i had gained a full car length and the TL-S was still asking for more... I admit, that's when my knees started to shake... i haven't flew like that in my prelude before so it was pretty exciting.... on the ride home i decided to take the streets... that's when i came across the yellow S2K... we engaged in a drag for about 6 lights before he turned... needless to say, those cars are quick from 1-3... but at 4th gear i pulled to far ahead for him to do anything....

overall a great driving weekend... hope you guys had some fun...

harddrivin1le

How do you know it was a '95 'Vette (as opposed to a '93, '94, '96, etc.)?

Could it have been a '91 'Vette? They used the old L98, which was rated @ just 250 HP.

'92 was the first year for the LT1. A well driven, 6 speed LT1 is a faster car than a TL. It's 300 pounds lighter, makes more power and is more aero.

Even a '95 is now a 13 year old car.

Try racing an '08 'Vette (with the standard LS3) and watch what happens.

InfernoAffairs

Sounds like you had a lot of fun. I'm glad you did so. Just out of curiosity, was your fiance in the car with you? If so, what was her reaction to all of it?

U4ICTHEORY

Your right, i don't know it well could have been a old L98... either way it was a vette, and by all means there are no slow vettes... all i know is what happend from my car... and again, your right, if it was an 08 it would be a different story... but it's hard trying to see your point... i never said my car was a vette killer... i just happend to come across one on the freeway and it couldn't catch me through 5th gear and on... maybe he stopped trying.... maybe he ran out of gas... who knows.... i was to far ahead to care at that point... he could be running low 7 seconds on the quarter... wouldn't matter... he still disapeared from my rear view... why he did?... i don't know... but you sound like a guy who's deffensive about his detroit bread background... so i hope you don't get you feelings hurt now... if it makes you feel better, i don't like going staight, i hit the canyons... going straigh is only fun for about 14.2 seconds

harddrivin1le

Here are CAR AND DRIVER'S test results for a bone stock, 1992 LT1 Corvette:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...92/92prod.html

It ran 0 - 100 MPH in 12.6 seconds and covered the 1/4 mile in 13.6 seconds @ 104 MPH.

0 - 130 MPH required 24.1 seconds.

No Acura TL that's remotely stock is going to be able to run with that 'Vette.

That was 16 model years ago. The LS1, LS2, LS3, LS6 and LS7 are all hotter than that '92.

dragncivic

he didnt say he beat the vette from a dig, he did it from a roll, and the tl-s is very capable of beating that car from a roll....

harddrivin1le

No, it's not.

Compare the 70 to 120 MPH segment times, for example.

The only way a TL is going to beat a '92 'Vette is if the 'Vette is badly out of tune, poorly driven and/or the TL has been significantly modified.


TL:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...car_dp.pdf.pdf

U4ICTHEORY

like i said... the only thing that mattered was i pulled at the end... why i pulled in the end? who knows... there are litterally a million reasons... flip it anyway you want, come up with as many conclusions as your mind will allow you too... hell, you don't even have to believe me... but if you were in the car with me... you'd be smiling too...

EL19

iTrader: (4)

that was one of the most dramatic stories ive ever read...lmao..gr8 kills & keep it movin!

harddrivin1le

All that proves is that you beat a ~15 year old car in an unknown state of tune.

It says nothing about how the 'Vette would have compared to the TL when both were brand new (and totally stock).

And for all we know, that could have been an L98 Corvette. My '06 Accord V6/6speed coupe was as quick at that, so I would hope that a TL would be slightly quicker.

New vs. New, an LT1 is the faster car - from any speed.

U4ICTHEORY

when daddy's happy... momma's happy...

U4ICTHEORY

wait wait wait... we were out to prove something? if anything... this corvette started flexing the muscle first... why he did, who knows? why would he do it with a poorly tuned car?... who knows?... why he would cut out early?... who knows?... proving what exactly... maybe only you know... i just took the challenge... and again... i never said i kill vettes on a horuly basis... just happend that one ran up on me...

EL19

iTrader: (4)

personally ive never seen a vette that old that wasnt taken car of or wasnt in prestine conditon...also LT1's are outdated and as i Caprices had LT1s in them and we all know how slow those are

harddrivin1le

That's conjecture.

Any older car that's being run hard may well have a lot of engine wear. Or it may be "babied" (e.g. shifted well before redlined). Or it could be worn AND babied.

The LT1 Caprice is 40 HP down on an LT1 Vette and is 900 pounds heavier, making the Caprice comparison irrelevant.

Stock LT1 Corvettes were faster than any stock Acura TL. The C&D road test results I posted above clearly shows that. And the last time I checked, a 13.7 second/104 MPH quarter mile isn't "slow."

C&D Test Results:

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...92/92prod.html

Performance Review
Magazine GM Spec. CD
Pub. Date Dec. 1991
Model LT1 Coupe
Transmission 6-speed Man.
0-30 mph (sec) NA 1.9
0-40 mph NA 2.7
0-50 mph NA 3.8
0-60 mph NA 5.0
0-70 mph NA 6.6
0-80 mph NA 8.3
0-90 mph NA 10.2
0-100 mph NA 12.6
0-110 mph NA 15.4
0-120 mph NA 19.0
0-130 mph NA 24.1
0-140 mph NA 30.3
0-150 mph NA 40.5
1/4 Mile (sec/mph) NA 13.6 / 104
Top Speed (mph) NA 157
Braking (ft.) NA 166 ft (70-0 mph)
Lateral Accel. (G) NA 0.89 (300 ft. dia. skidpad)
Fuel Economy EPA City: 17 mpg, EPA Highway: 25 mpg

References:

mishar

I have a question: why did you shift to 6th while racing?

U4ICTHEORY

can you get the numbers for the 07 TL-S just to compare?

U4ICTHEORY

(i believe) 5 gear was reaching redline at that point... so i shifted...

harddrivin1le

I already posted the link above. Here it is again:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/assets/d...car_dp.pdf.pdf

Look at the 0 - 120 MPH times. The 'Vette's there in 19 seconds flat while the TL requires 20.6 seconds. That's equates to an advantage of several car lengths for the LT1 by the time it hits 120 MPH.

There's no "magic" in this. The Corvette is ~ 250 pounds lighter, makes a little more peak power, has a fatter power band and is more aerodynamic.

The 'Vette is the faster car - by ANY measure.

On a personal note, I own an '07 TL, owned an LS1 Camaro and have driven 3 LT1 Corvettes. The TL goes fine for what it is (a 3.5 liter V6), but it's no LT1 Corvette.

mishar

I believe that were your knees shaking, because TL would reach speed limiter at 156 mph in 5th.

U4ICTHEORY

you are damn right about that... my knees were shaking in 4th... i couldn't look down at the tach... my fiance was screaming... it was all bad... but all good at the same time...

by all means... the vette is fast, faster then my car (according to the numbers) at this point, my only guess is that he let off the gas to exit... i really don't know... i really don't care... his expression as i passed him was all i needed... i also can't tell you the condition of his car or why he engaged first... and... he was ahead of me the whole time until i got into vtec in 4th gear... so it is possible he called it a day and i just don't know when to stop... but like i mentioned, the expression was all i needed...

EL19

iTrader: (4)

Okay well one u are lookin at professional drivers...so 13.6 at 104mph is a very "optimistic" # & two the 6mt 07 TLS can easily break 13 seconds...noone sed anything about magic...maybe the vette driver was fat, maybe he didnt know how to drive...but when it comes down to it a miata could b a vette on any given day becasue there is always room for error in anything...i never sed 13.7 was slow thats a decent time...it sure as hell aint fast tho...and just becuz the 0-120 time in the vette is faster does not mean that the vette is faster top end because they didnt start at 0...they went 70-150sumthn...ive never driven an LT1 vette and dont plan on it because they are outdated and id rather drive sumthn with up to date speed...also the times u looked up were for a 6pd MT...the guy coulda been driving an AT

U4ICTHEORY

yes, i have the 6 speed... how do you drive an automatic?... i don't remember?...LOL... I've seen a miata kill a vette before... it's on youtube i think... and yeah, who knows what was going on with the vette... only the driver can tell you... there are a million reasons why things happen, but only one truth... and the truth is, i passed him...

EL19

iTrader: (4)

all in all good kill...im callin it a day

harddrivin1le

I'm done here.

You (and many others) are obviously going to choose to believe that whatever car you happen to own is the fastest - regardless of what the facts say.

I won't even bother to mention that any legitimate comparison would compare cars from the same model year (e.g. '08 TL vs. '08 Corvette). Race an '08 Corvette with your TL and see how you do.

Mastermind

This is like watching the Special Olympics...

EL19

iTrader: (4)

what do u thnk im stupid or sumthn? why would i race an 08 TL to an 08 Corvette??? there not in the same league...The 07 TLS shouldnt even be in the same league as the 92 Vette but in power it is because of how far engines how come in the past 15 years...i dnt thnk my car is the faster car ever and thats an ignorant statement seeing as though u dont know me or what i drive...i know what i can beat and i know what i cant...ur jus like all of the other weirdos on here who post just to bash ppl...and noone is talkin about legitimate comparisons...the man was just going to get sum pasta when sum dickhead who thought his 92! vette was fast and got ate up my an 07 family sedan...geez take the kill for what it is

dragncivic

dragncivic

haterz everywhere!!! haha

Bearcat94

There are TWO different things here:

1. Stock-for-Stock, all else equal, which car is faster? I would go so far as to stipulate that the Vette is faster under any set of "normal" conditions. No one disagrees, the 'Vette IS faster.

2. On a particular day, between two particular cars, a TL got ahead of a Vette on a high speed rolling start run. I choose to believe that you are NOT calling the OP a liar. So, he out ran a Vette for who knows what reason - why is that such a problem? I personally don't put a lot of stock in it - It's not like we're all gonna go out and start hunting for Vettes in our little 258 HP sedans.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

Wow harddrivin1le, calm down. He didn't say he KILLED corvettes all the time and he isn't saying the TL is a faster car overall. There are a million maybes .. stop being so defensive about a 50 year old's penis extension ...

harddrivin1le

He doesn't even know what year the 'Vette was. At first he said it was a "95," but then admitted to now knowing what it was.

He therefore doesn't know what engine was in it nor does he know the car's state of tune, how hard the driver was trying, etc.

Denigrating a Corvette by referring to it as a "penis extension" is ignorant.

Like I said, you'd have to go all the way back to the 1991 model year to find a bone stock 'Vette that couldn't easily outrun a new TL. And even then, the '91 'Vette (L98) wouldn't lose by much.

harddrivin1le

It's "a problem" because at first he specifically stated that it was a '95 'Vette (which would imply LT1 power).

He later admitted to not knowing what model year it was. Why say it was a '95 unless one actually knows that?

All he really knows for certain is that it was a C4 Corvette ('84 - 96). It could therefore have had as little as 205 HP when it was brand new (and making less than that now with some years of wear on it.)

Any '95 (LT1), bone stock 'Vette that is properly tuned is going to dispense of any bone stock (or even lightly modded) Acura TL with relative ease, provided that the 'Vette's driver is actually making a legitimate effort.

TylerT

iTrader: (1)

It was wrong of me to say the Corvette is a 50 year old's penis extension, but nearly every Corvette I see is grey hair flowing in the wind with his ditsy passenger lol.

rimz

this shit never changes...someone posts their race(s) and at least one person has to be a race nazi over the whole thing (i know from experience as my unbelievable posts tend to bother others)...

nice runs by the OP...now drop the lame-ass copying + pasting of the specs...if i give a damn, i'll look them up myself...what happened, happened and i don't think U4ICTHEORY would take the time to come on here and make shit up...

damn....these douche bags that have to break down your post line-for-line get fucking annoying after a while...i expect this thread to be locked within 24 hours, so once again, nice runs U4ICTHEORY...

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

lol man this is funny, i haven't seen such "war" on this forum for quite a while.

Anyways, about the aerodynamics, from what I've seen, C4 Vette's cd is 0.34, while Acura TL's cd is 0.29, I am not sure about the lift or downforce, but from those numbers it seems like the TL is better for high speed racing. Of course power is another thing, but just wanna clarify about the aerodynamic thing.

Seriously though, the OP never really claimed much but saying that he managed to pull a car length on a vette. He wasn't even insisting that it was a 95 vette, he quickly said he was wrong.

The bottom line is, anything can happen on the street, and the OP knows that, he didn't claim anything else, didn't say his TL-S would beat any vette any day any time. Just calm down man.

mishar

Cd has to be multiplied with cross section in order to get comparable value. Corvette’s cross section is smaller than TL’s so it could be that air resistance is very similar.

iforyou

iTrader: (1)

yes thats true. I wouldnt be surprised if the TL has a bigger frontal area since it's a family car. But that means the frontal area of the vette has to be at least 15% smaller than the TL. And then you still have so many other factors to take into consideration......

Xpditor

The coefficient of drag (Cd) for the TL is .29. The Cd for a C5 Corvette is .29.

The C5 'vette is more aerodynamic than the C4. Ergo, a TL is more aerodynamic than a C4.

However, I am always amused when our Japanese 4-door, FWD sedans are seriously compared with 'vettes. Because, truth is...... there's only about a second or less difference in 0-60 times and a little more than that for 1/4 mile times. Factor in weight (passengers, gas level, etc.), reaction time, mechanical condition, driver ability, traction, and environmental factors.......almost anything could happen.

I have used some racing tricks to embarrass a 'vette or two. They will usually underestimate a TL and it's easy to catch them in the wrong gear when you are right on the vtech. Once you break away from them, they may catch up but they will have to work for it. If you quit at a reasonably safe speed and they haven't caught up yet, those 'vette drivers get real red in the face.

I guess my age is showing, but this would be unheard of 15-20 years ago.

PS: Keep this discussion civil, on topic, and non-personal. Or else:

harddrivin1le

Drag Area = Drag Coefficient X Frontal Area

Park your TL next to a C4 'Vette and compare the difference in frontal area. It's not even close.

The 'Vette has less Drag and is therefore more aerodynamic.

The only way our FWD sedans can "be compared with 'Vettes" is if one limits the comparison to Corvettes from the 1991 model year (L98, 250 HP) or earlier.

That's 17+ years ago.

How fast were Acura sedans 17 years ago?

harddrivin1le

The Cd X A value for a '92 'Vette is 6.27 per this link, which also explains the importance of the cD *A mulitple:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automob...g_coefficients

"CdA

While designers pay attention to the overall shape of the automobile, they also bear in mind that reducing the frontal area of the shape helps reduce the drag. The combination of drag coefficient and area is CdA (or CxA), a multiplication of the Cd value by the area.

In aerodynamics, the product of some reference area (such as cross-sectional area, total surface area, or similar) and the drag coefficient is called drag area. In 2003, Car and Driver adapted this metric and adopted it as a more intuitive way to compare the aerodynamic efficiency of various automobiles. Average full-size passenger cars have a drag area of roughly 8.5 ft² (.79 m²). Reported drag area ranges from the 1999 Honda Insight at 5.1 ft² (.47 m²) to the 2003 Hummer H2 at 26.3 ft² (2.44 m²)."